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Old 11-14-2012, 01:29 PM   #1
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My dad took me up there as a teen. It's an incredible experience. Especially if you've been spoon fed "history" like I was as a child. Here is this city created in a cliff. As complex as a European castle. Built by "savages."
Savages? I don't think anyone has said or thought that since the days of the Wild Wild West have they?
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:48 PM   #2
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Savages? I don't think anyone has said or thought that since the days of the Wild Wild West have they?
When I was a child the common thread was that these people were a small step above cavemen, and benefited greatly from our civilizing influence.
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:59 PM   #3
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When I was a child the common thread was that these people were a small step above cavemen, and benefited greatly from our civilizing influence.
That's horrible.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:20 PM   #4
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That's horrible.
Well, it could be regional. I was born in Virginia. We moved to Texas the Summer before I started elementary school, I did not go to kindergarten or day care. We moved back to Virginia the Summer before I started Jr. High School. I moved to Colorado during High School. I think that gave me an atypical education and made me more aware of prejudice that might otherwise have gone unnoticed.

Virginia: The Pilgrims created our country with the help of the Founding Fathers. Along the way we showed the Indians how to bathe and act like civilized men. Afterwards, the state of Virginia defeated the British.

Texas: Texas was already here. It's always been here. By the time the Easterners made it out this far we had already killed off all of our Indians and were busy eating cows and killing Spaniards/Mexicans.

Colorado: Well, yeah, what we did to the Indians was pretty ****ed up. But it's not like we're going to stop here and give all of their shit back. We kept some of their stuff around. You can go see it.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:27 PM   #5
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Virginia: The Pilgrims created our country with the help of the Founding Fathers. Along the way we showed the Indians how to bathe and act like civilized men. Afterwards, the state of Virginia defeated the British.
The funny thing is that the English actually didn't believe in bathing then and the Natives thought they were disgusting.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:28 PM   #6
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The funny thing is that the English actually didn't believe in bathing then and the Natives thought they were disgusting.
No, don't go introducing facts into history. You'll mess it up.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:39 PM   #7
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No, don't go introducing facts into history. You'll mess it up.
True. When I was in school (PNW in the 70's), we were taught that Indians were nobel savages that revered and lived as one with nature. Then the greedy evil white man came in with their guns and smallpox and wiped most of them out. Turns out that it was a lot more complex than that.

1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus by Charles Mann is a good book on the subject.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:28 PM   #8
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Well, it could be regional. I was born in Virginia. We moved to Texas the Summer before I started elementary school, I did not go to kindergarten or day care. We moved back to Virginia the Summer before I started Jr. High School. I moved to Colorado during High School. I think that gave me an atypical education and made me more aware of prejudice that might otherwise have gone unnoticed.

Virginia: The Pilgrims created our country with the help of the Founding Fathers. Along the way we showed the Indians how to bathe and act like civilized men. Afterwards, the state of Virginia defeated the British.

Texas: Texas was already here. It's always been here. By the time the Easterners made it out this far we had already killed off all of our Indians and were busy eating cows and killing Spaniards/Mexicans.

Colorado: Well, yeah, what we did to the Indians was pretty ****ed up. But it's not like we're going to stop here and give all of their shit back. We kept some of their stuff around. You can go see it.
I can see how those viewpoints would have come about. Growing up in Iowa we had Indian (native american) influence all over. Lots of our towns, rivers, creeks, counties were named with Indian names. We went to Cherokee, IA to see the rain dancers. We grew up knowing and learning how resourceful a people the midwest Indian was; how large their culture was, how sad that they had gone.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:37 PM   #9
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I can see how those viewpoints would have come about. Growing up in Iowa we had Indian (native american) influence all over. Lots of our towns, rivers, creeks, counties were named with Indian names. We went to Cherokee, IA to see the rain dancers. We grew up knowing and learning how resourceful a people the midwest Indian was; how large their culture was, how sad that they had gone.
It's sad that I didn't find out about my small amount of Native American heritage until I was a teenager. My grandmother mentioned it to me only once. When she left the room after explaining it (a lot of the "Indian Princess" stuff) my grandfather leaned over to me and mumbled, "Just another ****er."

Not exactly a ringing endorsement for multiculturalism, is it?
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:39 PM   #10
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It's sad that I didn't find out about my small amount of Native American heritage until I was a teenager. My grandmother mentioned it to me only once. When she left the room after explaining it (a lot of the "Indian Princess" stuff) my grandfather leaned over to me and mumbled, "Just another ****er."

Not exactly a ringing endorsement for multiculturalism, is it?
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:42 PM   #11
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It's sad that I didn't find out about my small amount of Native American heritage until I was a teenager. My grandmother mentioned it to me only once. When she left the room after explaining it (a lot of the "Indian Princess" stuff) my grandfather leaned over to me and mumbled, "Just another ****er."

Not exactly a ringing endorsement for multiculturalism, is it?
a "what"er?
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:19 AM   #12
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Well, it could be regional. I was born in Virginia. We moved to Texas the Summer before I started elementary school, I did not go to kindergarten or day care. We moved back to Virginia the Summer before I started Jr. High School. I moved to Colorado during High School. I think that gave me an atypical education and made me more aware of prejudice that might otherwise have gone unnoticed.

Virginia: The Pilgrims created our country with the help of the Founding Fathers. Along the way we showed the Indians how to bathe and act like civilized men. Afterwards, the state of Virginia defeated the British.

Texas: Texas was already here. It's always been here. By the time the Easterners made it out this far we had already killed off all of our Indians and were busy eating cows and killing Spaniards/Mexicans.

Colorado: Well, yeah, what we did to the Indians was pretty ****ed up. But it's not like we're going to stop here and give all of their shit back. We kept some of their stuff around. You can go see it.
Born and raised in Williamsburg. I understood exactly what you were saying.
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