Chiefs Mellinger: It appears KC not big enough for both Weis and Haley - Page 2

**Tribal Warfare** · 01-03-2011, 01:39 AM

It appears KC not big enough for both Weis and Haley
By SAM MELLINGER
The Kansas City Star

The spin is coming, it’s been coming, all sorts of neatly packaged reasons that Charlie Weis is quitting as Chiefs offensive coordinator to take the same job at the University of Florida.

Weis will stay with the Chiefs through the playoffs, but after that, he wants to be closer to his son. He wants to have his whole family in one place. Or he wants to get away from the grind of the NFL and back on campus, where he wants another try at being a head coach someday. He’s had some health scares recently, and his priorities have shifted away from pro football.

On and on and on the reasons go. You can listen to them all day, and there’s probably a little truth in most of them.

But logic-centered people can clearly see the Chiefs now have a potentially big problem on their hands, bigger than concerns over an entirely uninspired 31-10 blowout loss to the Raiders on Sunday.

Today, even as he’s a legitimate candidate for NFL coach of the year, Todd Haley looks like an impossible man to work for, ego and insecurity driving two veteran offensive coordinators away in a 16-month span.

The Chiefs and Haley will strongly deny all of this, of course, but there is too much circumstantial evidence stacking up, too much behind-the-scenes posturing, too much pettiness to believe anything else.

Weis and Haley never got along, not completely, not in the way that two men need to get along to work the long hours and high stakes of the NFL. Nobody is surprised by this, the young and fiery head coach not becoming BFFs with the older and just-as-fiery assistant who used to be his boss.

It was a shotgun marriage of convenience and personal gain for both sides. Haley got a capable and credible coordinator who allowed him to spend less time in the grueling details and more time in the big-picture duties of a head coach. Weis got a chance to build success after a miserable ending in Notre Dame and do it working with people he’s familiar with.

In the beginning, everyone said all the right things, particularly Weis, who right away even called Haley “the boss.”

But at some point, the conflicts began to bubble. A lot of it became exaggerated gossip built mostly on speculation and secondhand he-said/she-said, but the basic narrative is that both sides understood this would be a short-term deal.

The Chiefs’ offense blossomed this year, particularly with the quarterback Weis said he came to “fix,” and then came a scramble for who would get the credit. Naturally, a lot of it went to Weis, and some within the Chiefs began to talk up the contributions of Haley and assistant Nick Sirianni.

An important dichotomy began to emerge between the preaching about unity and the private efforts to divide credit. The irony is that a clear effort to control the message has now opened room for people to use varying degrees of informed speculation to assess what is now a national story.

The easy thing is to blame egos, and there are some considerable ones at work here, on all sides. But this is also an awful lot of insecurity. Both qualities often help drive ambitious and successful people in all walks of life, but like anything, it’s best in moderation.

Chiefs general manager Scott Pioli declined to discuss anything beyond what Haley said in his postgame news conference, which included the public company talking points about appreciating Weis’ contributions, respecting his decision and denying any conflicts.

The last time Weis took a college job before his NFL season was over, he stayed on to help the Patriots win the Super Bowl, so the Chiefs insist they won’t suffer from split attention.

This is a successful season for the Chiefs, no matter the ugliness of Sunday or what happens in the playoff game next Sunday. Matt Cassel proved a lot of people wrong, and, yes, I’m near the top of the list. Jamaal Charles is one of the league’s best running backs, Dwayne Bowe is now a legitimate star, and the defense is showing vast improvement.

None of that disappears now just because Weis is making a parallel move from the Chiefs to college.

But aren’t you starting to wonder whether the underlying issues that kept Weis from sticking around will keep Haley and the Chiefs from reaching this “ultimate goal” they’re always talking about?

**Bugeater** · 01-03-2011, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

I am beginning to think we have the dumbest fanbase and writers in the NFL.

Please provide some type of evidence that there is an issue rather than just saying there is an issue.

There are no facts, quotes, or information in this story to back up the opinion. Nothing.

People within Weis's circle did state to ESPN that it wasn't a personality conflict with Haley.

They way the offense has splayed at times I don't know that it is a real loss anyway.

I think the fact that he is bailing after one season is a pretty solid piece of evidence that something is going on.

But I agree completely your last sentence and I'm not going to lose much sleep over it.

memyselfI · 01-03-2011, 07:24 AM

I said this would be a problem with Haley LAST year. At the beginning of the season he APPEARED to have changed but that was only for the cameras and that illusion was shattered with a wag of a finger.

milkshock · 01-03-2011, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InChiefsHell

What the...? Hiring really great coordinators means you don't think the Head Coach is any good...

...that might be the dumbest thing I've ever read.

hiring really great co-ordinators with HC experience, when your own HC has no experience says to me, yes you are challenging the HC.

look at the no names populating the patriots coaching staff at the moment - no one would dare challenge belichick by bringing in a big name.

FringeNC · 01-03-2011, 07:30 AM

Assuming this article is right, and assuming the strife was caused by competing visions for the offense, Weis leaving is only bad thing if he is the better offensive mind than
Haley. Otherwise it's a good thing.

So...for those ripping on Haley...not only does all this speculation have to be true, but Haley attempting to enforce his vision for the offense had to make the offense worse.

modocsot · 01-03-2011, 07:44 AM

I guess people love drama. But simply put, if I had the professional accomplishments of Weis, a son going away to college as Weis, questionable health as Weis, I too would make this move. How often do you get to say, "Yeah, I won those Superbowls; now I get to see my son EVERY day as he develops into a football player in college."

Kidd Lex · 01-03-2011, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugeater

I think the fact that he is bailing after one season is a pretty solid piece of evidence that something is going on.

But I agree completely your last sentence and I'm not going to lose much sleep over it.

What if he and his wife are just really close to their son? He is graduating from St. Pius this year and who knows all the ins and outs of that relationship, but the opportunity to go to Florida and set his son up for a coaching career may be too good to pass up.

Why does their have to be a conspiracy? Why not take things at face value once in a while?

Red Dawg · 01-03-2011, 07:54 AM

Charlie can walk we will be better off next season without with him. Haley know offense really well even though they will hire an OC. If the Chiefs don't drop 50 passes last year his offense and Matt would have looked alot different.

Charlie will get canned from from Florida inside of 3 years. He isn't that good.

RINGLEADER · 01-03-2011, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kysirsoze

So basically Weis doesn't want to work for him so he's impossible to work for. What a ****ing stupid article. And he didn't "drive off" Gailey. He ****ing fired him.

I agree.

From this guy to Jack Harry foaming at the mouth last night to others in the national media the party line seems to be that Haley is a world-class A-hole and that's why Weis left. Despite the fact there's no evidence to support it. Plausible reasons (such as nepotism) are brushed off because it just COULDN'T be that easy. It MUST be something deeper. These "reporters" have all failed the basics of journalism - if Mellinger wants to stick his head in the ground and ignore what Weis is actually saying to form his own opinions about Weis REALLY thinks then I guess that's up to him but all these idiots reporting as fact things that there is zero evidence to support and then couching their conclusions with question marks is really lame.

RINGLEADER · 01-03-2011, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The God Hypothesis

Why does their have to be a conspiracy? Why not take things at face value once in a while?

Because it allows the "media" to shape the story and a guy trying to help his kid just isn't as interesting as a feud (even if there isn't evidence to support it).

And honestly, you can't have it both ways. If you think the Chiefs have made strides in the last year and the reason for those strides was the result of the aforementioned conspiratorial feud, then I guess Weis isn't the one who is wholly responsible for our gains to begin with.

The conclusions of this article (like Jack Harry's rants last night and what is sure to be the drumbeat of talk radio today) are just not support by facts.

When Weis comes out and says that he is leaving because of creative differences with Haley then you at least have something to hang your hat on "media". Of course, expecting something like, you know, facts, to support your conclusions is probably just too much to ask. That's why this "conspiracy" is so neatly packaged -- no sane person, after all, would ask for evidence from Weis of what's being reported (out of your azz) and naturally we can't trust what Haley is saying.

RINGLEADER · 01-03-2011, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

Assuming this article is right, and assuming the strife was caused by competing visions for the offense, Weis leaving is only bad thing if he is the better offensive mind than
Haley. Otherwise it's a good thing.

So...for those ripping on Haley...not only does all this speculation have to be true, but Haley attempting to enforce his vision for the offense had to make the offense worse.

EXACTLY!

You can't have it both ways.

If Haley imposing his will on the offense is why Weis left isn't it possible that Haley imposing his will on the offense could have contributed to the turnaround.

Of course, I'm just speculating (like the media has been doing)...

Fansy the Famous Bard · 01-03-2011, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuckdaddy

Charlie can walk we will be better off next season without with him. Haley know offense really well even though they will hire an OC. If the Chiefs don't drop 50 passes last year his offense and Matt would have looked alot different.

Charlie will get canned from from Florida inside of 3 years. He isn't that good.

Now that's just silly. Weis has a very good offensive mind. He's not going there as the HC.

RINGLEADER · 01-03-2011, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke

Now that's just silly. Weis has a very good offensive mind. He's not going there as the HC.

Someone should ask if Florida would be as excited to bring in Weis Jr. without the commitment of Weis Sr. Maybe that's where the "conspiracy" is...

tonyetony · 01-03-2011, 08:43 AM

What a bs article. Nothing more than lazy speculative drivel. Hey Sammy boy if all you want to do is speculate how about an article on who the next OC is going to be?

Ralphy Boy · 01-03-2011, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kysirsoze

So basically Weis doesn't want to work for him so he's impossible to work for. What a ****ing stupid article. And he didn't "drive off" Gailey. He ****ing fired him.

This.

KCUnited · 01-03-2011, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

I am beginning to think we have the dumbest fanbase and writers in the NFL.

Please provide some type of evidence that there is an issue rather than just saying there is an issue.

There are no facts, quotes, or information in this story to back up the opinion. Nothing.

People within Weis's circle did state to ESPN that it wasn't a personality conflict with Haley.

From Weis's lips.
Weis said his relationship with head coach Todd Haley has not deteriorated as has been speculated.

“I almost get offended when people say that,” Weis said. “People always want to look for a different angle for why you’re doing this. Scott (Pioli), Todd (Haley), Clark (Hunt), they brought me in to Kansas City when I was sitting at home in South Bend. I’ll be forever grateful for the opportunity I had to come here as the offensive coordinator and I’ll always wish them well.

“But this decision had absolutely zero to do with relationships in Kansas City.”

They way the offense has splayed at times I don't know that it is a real loss anyway.

This. Mellinger's informed spectulation = Nick Wright's Twitter.

01-03-2011, 01:39 AM
Tribal Warfare The Boom Boom Room Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $802813	Mellinger: It appears KC not big enough for both Weis and Haley It appears KC not big enough for both Weis and Haley By SAM MELLINGER The Kansas City Star The spin is coming, it’s been coming, all sorts of neatly packaged reasons that Charlie Weis is quitting as Chiefs offensive coordinator to take the same job at the University of Florida. Weis will stay with the Chiefs through the playoffs, but after that, he wants to be closer to his son. He wants to have his whole family in one place. Or he wants to get away from the grind of the NFL and back on campus, where he wants another try at being a head coach someday. He’s had some health scares recently, and his priorities have shifted away from pro football. On and on and on the reasons go. You can listen to them all day, and there’s probably a little truth in most of them. But logic-centered people can clearly see the Chiefs now have a potentially big problem on their hands, bigger than concerns over an entirely uninspired 31-10 blowout loss to the Raiders on Sunday. Today, even as he’s a legitimate candidate for NFL coach of the year, Todd Haley looks like an impossible man to work for, ego and insecurity driving two veteran offensive coordinators away in a 16-month span. The Chiefs and Haley will strongly deny all of this, of course, but there is too much circumstantial evidence stacking up, too much behind-the-scenes posturing, too much pettiness to believe anything else. Weis and Haley never got along, not completely, not in the way that two men need to get along to work the long hours and high stakes of the NFL. Nobody is surprised by this, the young and fiery head coach not becoming BFFs with the older and just-as-fiery assistant who used to be his boss. It was a shotgun marriage of convenience and personal gain for both sides. Haley got a capable and credible coordinator who allowed him to spend less time in the grueling details and more time in the big-picture duties of a head coach. Weis got a chance to build success after a miserable ending in Notre Dame and do it working with people he’s familiar with. In the beginning, everyone said all the right things, particularly Weis, who right away even called Haley “the boss.” But at some point, the conflicts began to bubble. A lot of it became exaggerated gossip built mostly on speculation and secondhand he-said/she-said, but the basic narrative is that both sides understood this would be a short-term deal. The Chiefs’ offense blossomed this year, particularly with the quarterback Weis said he came to “fix,” and then came a scramble for who would get the credit. Naturally, a lot of it went to Weis, and some within the Chiefs began to talk up the contributions of Haley and assistant Nick Sirianni. An important dichotomy began to emerge between the preaching about unity and the private efforts to divide credit. The irony is that a clear effort to control the message has now opened room for people to use varying degrees of informed speculation to assess what is now a national story. The easy thing is to blame egos, and there are some considerable ones at work here, on all sides. But this is also an awful lot of insecurity. Both qualities often help drive ambitious and successful people in all walks of life, but like anything, it’s best in moderation. Chiefs general manager Scott Pioli declined to discuss anything beyond what Haley said in his postgame news conference, which included the public company talking points about appreciating Weis’ contributions, respecting his decision and denying any conflicts. The last time Weis took a college job before his NFL season was over, he stayed on to help the Patriots win the Super Bowl, so the Chiefs insist they won’t suffer from split attention. This is a successful season for the Chiefs, no matter the ugliness of Sunday or what happens in the playoff game next Sunday. Matt Cassel proved a lot of people wrong, and, yes, I’m near the top of the list. Jamaal Charles is one of the league’s best running backs, Dwayne Bowe is now a legitimate star, and the defense is showing vast improvement. None of that disappears now just because Weis is making a parallel move from the Chiefs to college. But aren’t you starting to wonder whether the underlying issues that kept Weis from sticking around will keep Haley and the Chiefs from reaching this “ultimate goal” they’re always talking about?
Posts: 42,116

01-03-2011, 07:24 AM	#17
memyselfI CHANGEd your mind yet???? Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Lunatics Anonymous Casino cash: $10005234	I said this would be a problem with Haley LAST year. At the beginning of the season he APPEARED to have changed but that was only for the cameras and that illusion was shattered with a wag of a finger. __________________ Meet the new boss same as the old boss. BigChiefDave:"Anyone who thought we would only be in Iraq for a few years is either stoned or just stoopid." "It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last 6 days, 6 wks. I doubt 6 mths." Rummy 2/7/03
Posts: 32,000

01-03-2011, 07:30 AM	#19
FringeNC MVP Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: NC Casino cash: $1686014	Assuming this article is right, and assuming the strife was caused by competing visions for the offense, Weis leaving is only bad thing if he is the better offensive mind than Haley. Otherwise it's a good thing. So...for those ripping on Haley...not only does all this speculation have to be true, but Haley attempting to enforce his vision for the offense had to make the offense worse.
Posts: 10,173

01-03-2011, 07:44 AM	#20
modocsot Starter Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Jax, FL (Southbank) Casino cash: $5589244	I guess people love drama. But simply put, if I had the professional accomplishments of Weis, a son going away to college as Weis, questionable health as Weis, I too would make this move. How often do you get to say, "Yeah, I won those Superbowls; now I get to see my son EVERY day as he develops into a football player in college."
Posts: 244

01-03-2011, 07:54 AM	#22
Red Dawg Going home eventually Join Date: Dec 2002 Casino cash: $4702858	Charlie can walk we will be better off next season without with him. Haley know offense really well even though they will hire an OC. If the Chiefs don't drop 50 passes last year his offense and Matt would have looked alot different. Charlie will get canned from from Florida inside of 3 years. He isn't that good. __________________ If you're not first you're last!
Posts: 30,442

01-03-2011, 08:43 AM	#28
tonyetony tonyetony Join Date: May 2001 Location: Yeah Right! Casino cash: $10007948	What a bs article. Nothing more than lazy speculative drivel. Hey Sammy boy if all you want to do is speculate how about an article on who the next OC is going to be?
Posts: 1,442