Football Jaye Howard or Sean Smith - Page 15

kccrow · 01-20-2016, 08:49 PM

Which would you sign.

For the sake of argument, let's assume the following contracts (without getting into the details too much):

Sean Smith gets a 5 year, 52.5 million deal (10.5 per). First year cap hit is 6.6 m to fit cap constraints. Roughly on par with Byron Maxwell's deal (5th highest for a CB).

Jaye Howard gets a 4 year, 36 million deal (9.0 per). First year cap hit is 6.6 m to fit cap constraints. Roughly on par with Derek Wolfe's and Jurrell Casey's deals (6th and 7th highest for 3-4 DE).

OldSchool · 01-26-2016, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefscafan

Truthfully I trust Ballard and Dorsey in their player evaluations. Look what they did this year if we let the two go we probably have something up our sleeve.

The only two I say are definite are Berry and Johnson. The rest I'll just roll with the punches

This. I'd love Hali back but he's now in the roleplayer stage of his career. If he's willing to sign for that kind of deal, great, if not, it was nice seeing him play here. Would be great if he and DJ could finish their careers here though.

kccrow · 01-26-2016, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

I wonder what kind of $ Poe is gonna want. That's basically the lynchpin in all of these discussions.

The top 3-4 DTs in the league don't even make 5m per...(the highest per year is Wilfork at 4.5 per).

There are, however, 13 3-4 DEs that make more than 5m per.

Of those guys, Poe is one of the least statistically productive.

Here's the group of DL in a 3-4 that make more than 5m per season along with the amount of sacks and TFLs each is credited with for their career.

Watt
Jordan 38/44
Campbell 28/59
Heyward 21/35
Liuget 20/36
Daniels 18/?
Wolfe 17/?
Casey 26/41
Hatcher 23/32
Bryant 19/26
Jones 10/15
Bailey 11/18
Peaa 13/18

Poe (in 4 seasons) is sitting at 11.5 sacks with only 15TFL

Howard (in 1 season) has 4.5 sacks and 10 TFL.

Howard also has more forced and recovered fumbles than Poe.

Stats are a terrible way to measure impact. Poe is the premier player at his position and is one of the few defensive lineman in the NFL that absolutely require a double team every snap. Poe would be an absolute wrecking ball in a situation where he wasn't taking on double and triple teams every snap. Poe, in an even front, would be a nightmare with any kind of competent space eater playing next to him. He's got Kevin Williams athleticism in Pat Williams body.

**BossChief** · 01-26-2016, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

Stats are a terrible way to measure impact. Poe is the premier player at his position and is one of the few defensive lineman in the NFL that absolutely require a double team every snap. Poe would be an absolute wrecking ball in a situation where he wasn't taking on double and triple teams every snap. Poe, in an even front, would be a nightmare with any kind of competent space eater playing next to him. He's got Kevin Williams athleticism in Pat Williams body.

I don't think he's as good as you advertise him, TBH. He's good, but he's not a dominant guy that is worth crazy money.

The difference between Poe and Howard isn't massive and Howard hasn't needed back surgery.

mcaj22 · 01-26-2016, 04:25 PM

eventually stats have to matter someone has to make the play/stop. these guys arent Donnie Edwards making 100 tackles 7 yards down field. this places obsession with "invisible points/stats" impact is just weird to me.

RunKC · 01-26-2016, 04:43 PM

Joel Corry thinks Smith will go to the Raiders.

-from CA
-Raiders have a big need there.
-raiders have a ton of cash to give
-Ken Norton is from the Seahawks and likes guys with height and length

I agree. He's gonna want a Byron Maxwell type deal

pugsnotdrugs19 · 01-26-2016, 04:55 PM

Probably won't re-sign either, I'm starting to believe.

But that's fine if you use the money to address the offense, or even replace a Smith with a Trumaine Johnson.

**RealSNR** · 01-26-2016, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

Joel Corry thinks Smith will go to the Raiders.

-from CA
-Raiders have a big need there.
-raiders have a ton of cash to give
-Ken Norton is from the Seahawks and likes guys with height and length

I agree. He's gonna want a Byron Maxwell type deal

Then I hope Smith likes all dem big ol' women down in San Antonio

**Easy 6** · 01-28-2016, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

Probably Howard. Pass rush helps secondary more than the other way around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedandGold

Gaines isn't a guy that can step in and fill that role effectively.

I'd hate to lose either, but I'm with sapho here, pass rush is everything these days.

Not sure why you'd say that, R&G... what have you seen that tells you he cant?

**RealSNR** · 01-28-2016, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Easy 6

I'd hate to lose either, but I'm with sapho here, pass rush is everything these days.

Not sure why you'd say that, R&G... what have you seen that tells you he cant?

Gaines at this point is a carbon copy of Sanders Commings.

If I'm the Chiefs, I'm not trusting him with shit.

**gblowfish** · 01-28-2016, 05:01 PM

Roger Mudd or Howard K Smith?

Pasta Little Brioni · 01-28-2016, 05:01 PM

Yeah I'm suuuuuuuure Raunchy-Nachos would easily replace what Jaye did this year. Just like all the Sanders Commings moronic bullshit hype.

staylor26 · 01-28-2016, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealSNR

Gaines at this point is a carbon copy of Sanders Commings.

If I'm the Chiefs, I'm not trusting him with shit.

I understand your concern, but look around the NFL man. Injuries are going to continue to happen at a ridiculous rate for as long as we have these short training camps and lack of practice time. I don't think it's fair to just label every young guy that has a freak ACL injury and/or other minor injury (I believe it was a concussion in Gaines' case) as a brokedick off the bat.

Gaines is a guy that needed time to be ready physically to play in the NFL as it was, and he made strides his rookie season, then again in the offseason up until that ACL tear. I'm not giving up on him, but I'm definitely signing a Lane type of FA or drafting one of these big ****ing corners to cover my ass.

Mr. Laz · 01-28-2016, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TigerUppercut

Jaye Howard benefitted from Poe being double teamed up the middle and Houston attracting lots of attention. Let. Howard. Go.

Howard was looking good while Poe was recovering from his back and wasn't playing much.

Pasta Little Brioni · 01-28-2016, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

Howard was looking good while Poe was recovering from his back and wasn't playing much.

Yup.black bob is a weird dude.

Saccopoo · 01-28-2016, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball

Yeah I'm suuuuuuuure Raunchy-Nachos would easily replace what Jaye did this year. Just like all the Sanders Commings moronic bullshit hype.

And Jaye Howard was who before everyone annointed him the next Ted Washington after this season?

View Poll Results: Who do you sign
Sean Smith, CB	88	58.28%
Jaye Howard, DE	63	41.72%
Voters: 151. You may not vote on this poll

01-20-2016, 08:49 PM
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $3057078	Jaye Howard or Sean Smith Which would you sign. For the sake of argument, let's assume the following contracts (without getting into the details too much): Sean Smith gets a 5 year, 52.5 million deal (10.5 per). First year cap hit is 6.6 m to fit cap constraints. Roughly on par with Byron Maxwell's deal (5th highest for a CB). Jaye Howard gets a 4 year, 36 million deal (9.0 per). First year cap hit is 6.6 m to fit cap constraints. Roughly on par with Derek Wolfe's and Jurrell Casey's deals (6th and 7th highest for 3-4 DE).
Posts: 12,681

01-26-2016, 04:25 PM	#214
mcaj22 MVP Join Date: Feb 2010 Casino cash: $10014454	eventually stats have to matter someone has to make the play/stop. these guys arent Donnie Edwards making 100 tackles 7 yards down field. this places obsession with "invisible points/stats" impact is just weird to me.
Posts: 11,886

01-26-2016, 04:43 PM	#215
RunKC Andy Reid Supporter Join Date: Apr 2012 Casino cash: $2019611	Joel Corry thinks Smith will go to the Raiders. -from CA -Raiders have a big need there. -raiders have a ton of cash to give -Ken Norton is from the Seahawks and likes guys with height and length I agree. He's gonna want a Byron Maxwell type deal
Posts: 46,282

01-26-2016, 04:55 PM	#216
pugsnotdrugs19 SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS Join Date: Aug 2013 Casino cash: $9119447	Probably won't re-sign either, I'm starting to believe. But that's fine if you use the money to address the offense, or even replace a Smith with a Trumaine Johnson.
Posts: 26,378

01-28-2016, 05:01 PM	#220
gblowfish Be Kind To Your Pets Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Glorious Independence, MO Casino cash: $17606178 VARSITY	Roger Mudd or Howard K Smith?
Posts: 40,843

01-28-2016, 05:01 PM	#221
Pasta Little Brioni Consuming CP souls Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: U.S.A. Casino cash: $3758880	Yeah I'm suuuuuuuure Raunchy-Nachos would easily replace what Jaye did this year. Just like all the Sanders Commings moronic bullshit hype. __________________ **Official TFWdemB Trivia Commisioner**
Posts: 68,815