Chiefs Put Dorsey's Head On The Chopping Block - Page 10

Direckshun · 09-09-2014, 11:02 AM

It is very, very early in John Dorsey's tenure here, but unless the talent he's acquired magically turns it around by midpoint of the season, I believe we should be shopping for a new GM by the end of the season.

Now, this is a big deal (I would like to think), coming from me. I was among the last defenders on this site of Scott Pioli, and I still think his drafting record here was strong. I believe in the process, in giving GMs extreme leeway and time in shuffling the roster and building a team full of the kind of guys we want.

But Dorsey came in with a plum opportunity. He had the core of a team already built for him (minus the one critical position), the #1 pick in the draft, and a ridiculous amount of free agency cap room to spend, spend, spend.

With these incredible gifts given to him, gifts that any new GM would kill for (rather than the shit sandwich a new GM would get in 2015...), Dorsey took the absolute worst path.

He sacrificed the future of the franchise for a quick playoff run, completely overpaying in offseason talent, hamstringing our budget for 2014 and 2015 so that we let a full quarter of our team's starters walk, including two Pro Bowlers, with zero ability to replace any of the departing talent effectively (with the sole exception of replacing Kendrick Lewis with Husain Abdullah, but even that was a Plan B after Mr. Glass Commings is out for another year).

We were unable to retain Brandon Albert, Brandon Flowers, Ryan Succop, Tyson Jackson, Dexter McCulster, Jon Asamoah and Geoff Schwartz because we had to have Mike DeVito, Chase Daniel, Dunta Robinson, Sean Smith, Donnie Avery, and Anthony Fasano. That is a complete loss on every level, and again, it happened because Dorsey acted like a teenager after receiving his first paycheck rather than the patient, methodical personnel guru he was alleged to be.

The Alex Smith trade was defensible on its own terms, I believe. (We overpayed with the two 2nds, but we overpayed for Bowe and Colquitt, and both of those were defensible as well, as the team was seriously ****ed without the player in question.) But coupled with the Chase Daniel acquisition and this team's continued chickenshit behavior regarding the QB position in the draft, and it once again showed a complete lack of understanding of what it takes to win in a league being skewed further and further away from the Alex Smiths and Matt Cassels of the world. In a league that's continually changing, Dorsey, Reid and Alex Smith are keeping the team stagnant.

Well, less than stagnant, really. The biggest crime of the young John Dorsey era has been the drafting, which has been horrific. It's every bit as obsessed with 40 times and measurables and ignorant of on field performance as the Al Davis regime used to be. We burned the #1 overall pick on a likely bust at tackle. We burned our first this year on a passrusher that isn't helping us win. We burned our third this year on a corner that was worse than Vince Agnew this preseason. And none of our low-round picks are working out, up to and including our UDFAs, where GMs need to distinguish themselves. It's insane to think that Scott Pioli had a better record with UDFAs, which is saying something considering that Pioli only hit on one his entire time here.

I do a ton of mock drafts throughout the year, most of them terrible, but all of them viscerally enjoyable for me to postulate. It's lost a lot of its luster this year, even as we are entering a year with 11 draft picks, because projecting the projects and boom/likely-bust players that Dorsey falls in love with makes the exercise depressing. We end up with a super-young team full of talent that can't see the field, and likely rarely ever will.

I'm willing to change my tune, as I always am, if some of this plan looks to be solid for the future, and not just for the present, by the middle of the season. But it would have to be a dramatic shift for me to feel that way.

That said, we can still end up in a good position here. The Alex Smith contract, which ironically is the best contract Dorsey has signed here, makes Smith expendable if a new GM is brought in at the end of the year. If Andy Reid still wants Alex Smith after a 4-12 season, fire him too. If Andy Reid can't get along with the new GM, fire him. If Andy Reid can't call a winning gameplan in 2015, fire him.

This front office refused to utilize their patience when constructing this roster. In the process, they've lost mine.

Coochie liquor · 09-09-2014, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pablo

Let me guess?

Just be patient!!! Things are looking up!!!

No clean house AGAIN, especially after going from a 2 win team to an 11 win team. Let's blow it all up because we feel we should be SB ready right now. JFC!! You are so entitled!

Coochie liquor · 09-09-2014, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

You stupid **** WE SAW THE ERRORS ON ****ING DRAFT DAY.

It's not new. You damned sunshine-enema reeruns wanting to make excuses for everything pretend like there was no ****ing way of knowing...

You mad bro? I think you take this game a little too seriously. Do you own stock in the team? Are you a silent partner? Somehow related? Sleeping with one of the players? Then what the **** do you get so worked up about?? Take a chill pill dude! It ain't worth having a stroke over.

Discuss Thrower · 09-09-2014, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coochie liquor

No clean house AGAIN, especially after going from a 2 win team to an 11 win team. Let's blow it all up because we feel we should be SB ready right now. JFC!! You are so entitled!

They should have been SB ready in 2015.

They might get to .500 in 2015.

saphojunkie · 09-09-2014, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

Alex Smith got $45M gauranteed, moron. That puts him at the 7th highest QB in terms of gaurantees and every single penny of that $45M is going to be paid within the first 3 years.

For what?

What was the purpose of extending a guy like Alex when you are going to willingly let the few half way talented pieces walk off the roster and fill it in with jack and shit.

There is no $45M guaranteed. The fact that you're unwilling to understand how contracts work doesn't suddenly reverse the objectivity of ****ing MATH.

Alex Smith got a signing of $18 million dollars. His salary for this year is $1M. THAT IS THE ONLY GUARANTEED MONEY. The Chiefs can CUT ALEX SMITH THIS OFFSEASON AND SAVE MONEY ON THE CAP.

It is not an albatross.

If they are in a position to draft a QB in the first round this year, they can do so and cut Alex Smith immediately, which will then accelerate his signing bonus to all on one year. That means the remainder (4 years @ $3.6M) would be $14.4M.

That is $1.2M less than his cap number next year. And guess what? Then he's off the books. Period. If they cut him post June 1, then his cap number is reduced from $15.6M next year to $3.6M. Then in 2016 his dead money cap number is $10.8M. Again, after that, he's completely off the books.

OH NOES HOW WILL WE EVER GET OUT FROM UNDER THIS HORRIBLE CONTRACT?! DORSEY YOU ARE SO UNBELIEVABLY STU....

oh. nevermind.

There are LEGITIMATE things to complain about, but when you start saying "every move Dorsey makes is reeruned derp derp!" it completely discredits the valid arguments. It's an argument of stupid fans who think there are only two kinds of GMs: Super Bowl winners and complete morons who have no business holding a job in professional sports.

Coochie liquor · 09-09-2014, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

They should have been SB ready in 2015.

They might get to .500 in 2015.

I'm confused (as always) so we didn't have good drafts by the curren regime, or the last regime, yet we should have been able to build a team with where we were cap wise and with the personel we had in 2 seasons? All this while being the worst team in the league the year this regime took over. Why aren't you a GM somewhere? I don't understand! That plan sounds absolutely flawless!

'Hamas' Jenkins · 09-09-2014, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

People said, "Who ****ing cares about 2nd round picks? They're second round picks."

They are also draft picks that allow you the agency to pick whatever the **** you want or need. You can justify any non-kicker position drafted with a 2nd round pick. You can't do that with #1 overall. If an interior OL really is the best player in the draft, you can't just take him at #1 overall.

I argued over and over again last offseason after the draft that Dorsey should have given the 49ers the #1 overall pick for Alex Smith if he was going to waste it on a walking AIDS fire like Eric Fisher. People called me crazy for no other reason than, "IT'S THE #1 OVERALL PICK!"

Yeah, it is. I agree it's ****ing huge. So use it wisely... don't just take an undersized MAC conference pussy of a LT when we already had Albert, Winston, and Stephenson on the team. If you are going to take the coward's way out with the #1 pick, you may as well burn it and get your magic Alex Smith that you think is going to save the day.

Instead, we used the #1 overall pick to save about $5 million per year on our LT. THAT'S. ****ING. IT. That's what we used our #1 pick on.

Christ.

You forgot that we also downgraded significantly at LT and assumed $8 million worth of QB who was due an extension soon.

You can't even make a financial argument for that pick. It's like telling your wife you saved a dollar on toilet paper and then bought an arm's length of scratcher's tickets with the "extra" money.

saphojunkie · 09-09-2014, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

People said, "Who ****ing cares about 2nd round picks? They're second round picks."

They are also draft picks that allow you the agency to pick whatever the **** you want or need. You can justify any non-kicker position drafted with a 2nd round pick. You can't do that with #1 overall. If an interior OL really is the best player in the draft, you can't just take him at #1 overall.

I argued over and over again last offseason after the draft that Dorsey should have given the 49ers the #1 overall pick for Alex Smith if he was going to waste it on a walking AIDS fire like Eric Fisher. People called me crazy for no other reason than, "IT'S THE #1 OVERALL PICK!"

Yeah, it is. I agree it's ****ing huge. So use it wisely... don't just take an undersized MAC conference pussy of a LT when we already had Albert, Winston, and Stephenson on the team. If you are going to take the coward's way out with the #1 pick, you may as well burn it and get your magic Alex Smith that you think is going to save the day.

Instead, we used the #1 overall pick to save about $5 million per year on our LT. THAT'S. ****ING. IT. That's what we used our #1 pick on.

Christ.

You know what? I really like your posts.

Discuss Thrower · 09-09-2014, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coochie liquor

I'm confused (as always) so we didn't have good drafts by the curren regime, or the last regime, yet we should have been able to build a team with where we were cap wise and with the personel we had in 2 seasons? All this while being the worst team in the league the year this regime took over. Why aren't you a GM somewhere? I don't understand! That plan sounds absolutely flawless!

The team should have been totally taken apart after 2012.

**RealSNR** · 09-09-2014, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coochie liquor

I'm confused (as always) so we didn't have good drafts by the curren regime, or the last regime, yet we should have been able to build a team with where we were cap wise and with the personel we had in 2 seasons? All this while being the worst team in the league the year this regime took over. Why aren't you a GM somewhere? I don't understand! That plan sounds absolutely flawless!

We didn't have good Pioli or Dorsey drafts because we had two starters on defense get injured, and suddenly our entire unit is in the shitter.

jd1020 · 09-09-2014, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

There is no $45M guaranteed. The fact that you're unwilling to understand how contracts work doesn't suddenly reverse the objectivity of ****ing MATH.

Alex Smith got a signing of $18 million dollars. His salary for this year is $1M. THAT IS THE ONLY GUARANTEED MONEY. The Chiefs can CUT ALEX SMITH THIS OFFSEASON AND SAVE MONEY ON THE CAP.

It is not an albatross.

If they are in a position to draft a QB in the first round this year, they can do so and cut Alex Smith immediately, which will then accelerate his signing bonus to all on one year. That means the remainder (4 years @ $3.6M) would be $14.4M.

That is $1.2M less than his cap number next year. And guess what? Then he's off the books. Period. If they cut him post June 1, then his cap number is reduced from $15.6M next year to $3.6M. Then in 2016 his dead money cap number is $10.8M. Again, after that, he's completely off the books.

OH NOES HOW WILL WE EVER GET OUT FROM UNDER THIS HORRIBLE CONTRACT?! DORSEY YOU ARE SO UNBELIEVABLY STU....

oh. nevermind.

There are LEGITIMATE things to complain about, but when you start saying "every move Dorsey makes is reeruned derp derp!" it completely discredits the valid arguments. It's an argument of stupid fans who think there are only two kinds of GMs: Super Bowl winners and complete morons who have no business holding a job in professional sports.

Give me a ****ing break. Unless Alex punches his girlfriend in the face and gets caught on camera he's not getting cut.

**LoneWolf** · 09-09-2014, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

As SNR essentially just argued, it's important to remember the key difference between Pioli and Dorsey.

Pioli inherited a dumpster fire, and fails to build much of anything on top of it by hamstringing his personnel acquisitions with a terrible QB and godawful coaching.

Dorsey inherited a mostly good roster except at the one position that counts, and has systematically dismantled it for no conceivable gain.

Systematically dismantled? He didn't overpay to keep Albert and released Flowers. In what way is that systematically dismantling.

Coochie liquor · 09-09-2014, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

We didn't have good Pioli or Dorsey drafts because we had two starters on defense get injured, and suddenly our entire unit is in the shitter.

I'm not arguing that point. I do understand, but it takes years to overcome poor drafting. I see no way we were going to be contending for a SB in 2015 either way as he was claiming. We've had too many bad contracts, and poor drafts. Too cap strapped, and not enough big play makers. To me it's too early to judge this regimes draft picks.

saphojunkie · 09-09-2014, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

Give me a ****ing break. Unless Alex punches his girlfriend in the face and gets caught on camera he's not getting cut.

Nice argument.

jd1020 · 09-09-2014, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

Nice argument.

Better than "but but but... he can be cut!"

saphojunkie · 09-09-2014, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

Better than "but but but... he can be cut!"

No, it's not. It's moving the goalposts because I destroyed your other point.

09-09-2014, 11:02 AM
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $4263447	Put Dorsey's Head On The Chopping Block It is very, very early in John Dorsey's tenure here, but unless the talent he's acquired magically turns it around by midpoint of the season, I believe we should be shopping for a new GM by the end of the season. Now, this is a big deal (I would like to think), coming from me. I was among the last defenders on this site of Scott Pioli, and I still think his drafting record here was strong. I believe in the process, in giving GMs extreme leeway and time in shuffling the roster and building a team full of the kind of guys we want. But Dorsey came in with a plum opportunity. He had the core of a team already built for him (minus the one critical position), the #1 pick in the draft, and a ridiculous amount of free agency cap room to spend, spend, spend. With these incredible gifts given to him, gifts that any new GM would kill for (rather than the shit sandwich a new GM would get in 2015...), Dorsey took the absolute worst path. He sacrificed the future of the franchise for a quick playoff run, completely overpaying in offseason talent, hamstringing our budget for 2014 and 2015 so that we let a full quarter of our team's starters walk, including two Pro Bowlers, with zero ability to replace any of the departing talent effectively (with the sole exception of replacing Kendrick Lewis with Husain Abdullah, but even that was a Plan B after Mr. Glass Commings is out for another year). We were unable to retain Brandon Albert, Brandon Flowers, Ryan Succop, Tyson Jackson, Dexter McCulster, Jon Asamoah and Geoff Schwartz because we had to have Mike DeVito, Chase Daniel, Dunta Robinson, Sean Smith, Donnie Avery, and Anthony Fasano. That is a complete loss on every level, and again, it happened because Dorsey acted like a teenager after receiving his first paycheck rather than the patient, methodical personnel guru he was alleged to be. The Alex Smith trade was defensible on its own terms, I believe. (We overpayed with the two 2nds, but we overpayed for Bowe and Colquitt, and both of those were defensible as well, as the team was seriously ****ed without the player in question.) But coupled with the Chase Daniel acquisition and this team's continued chickenshit behavior regarding the QB position in the draft, and it once again showed a complete lack of understanding of what it takes to win in a league being skewed further and further away from the Alex Smiths and Matt Cassels of the world. In a league that's continually changing, Dorsey, Reid and Alex Smith are keeping the team stagnant. Well, less than stagnant, really. The biggest crime of the young John Dorsey era has been the drafting, which has been horrific. It's every bit as obsessed with 40 times and measurables and ignorant of on field performance as the Al Davis regime used to be. We burned the #1 overall pick on a likely bust at tackle. We burned our first this year on a passrusher that isn't helping us win. We burned our third this year on a corner that was worse than Vince Agnew this preseason. And none of our low-round picks are working out, up to and including our UDFAs, where GMs need to distinguish themselves. It's insane to think that Scott Pioli had a better record with UDFAs, which is saying something considering that Pioli only hit on one his entire time here. I do a ton of mock drafts throughout the year, most of them terrible, but all of them viscerally enjoyable for me to postulate. It's lost a lot of its luster this year, even as we are entering a year with 11 draft picks, because projecting the projects and boom/likely-bust players that Dorsey falls in love with makes the exercise depressing. We end up with a super-young team full of talent that can't see the field, and likely rarely ever will. I'm willing to change my tune, as I always am, if some of this plan looks to be solid for the future, and not just for the present, by the middle of the season. But it would have to be a dramatic shift for me to feel that way. That said, we can still end up in a good position here. The Alex Smith contract, which ironically is the best contract Dorsey has signed here, makes Smith expendable if a new GM is brought in at the end of the year. If Andy Reid still wants Alex Smith after a 4-12 season, fire him too. If Andy Reid can't get along with the new GM, fire him. If Andy Reid can't call a winning gameplan in 2015, fire him. This front office refused to utilize their patience when constructing this roster. In the process, they've lost mine.
Posts: 59,299