Hot Water Heaters

[Holladay]

(an aside, 4 people in the house and 2 of which are teenagers) I have 2x50 gal propane hot water heaters, 10 years old, set up in line. The thought was that have one (the last in line) fairly hot, and the first just warm. When the needed, I could turn up the first to hot as well...ie when I wanted to fill the big bath tub.

The first in line has stopped working. I can't /won't light. So we have been working on just one. Which is OK because we have the other (last in line) that works fine.

I am looking at upgrading the tanks. I saw online to have 1 propane tank coupled with a "tankless" hot water source. I don't know the price, setup requirements, cost etc.

I just want to have adequate hot water. Again, have two teenagers and a big bath tub that we don't use that much.

Should I just replace both 50 gal propane tanks, have a repairman come out to fix the first in line that doesn't work, or do the hybrid propane tank and a tankless source?

Cost is an issue to a degree. Or the increased value to the house with a tankless?

Thanks

[Lonewolf Ed]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Hot water heater is redundant

Unless it won't make hot water.

[Chief Roundup]

The manufacturers of HWH are changing sizes as well. The vendor that supplies one of the local plumbing outfits has put them on notice of the dimension changes. Knowing several plumbers very well I must say I would not use a tankless.

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by A Salt Weapon

I'm a little late, but since this is what I do for a living I should chime in. Go tankless and never look back. Here's the kicker, don't go cheap. Rinnai is the only brand to consider. One r-75 will replace both 50 gal tanks, use less fuel and pay for itself. And there's a tax credit as well. They make both a propane and nat gas unit, you could go bigger with the r94 but you won't need it. If you really want to save some fuel get the ru80i, (condensing 96+% efficient) however you'll have to address the condensate. Costs more and if your local code requires it to be neutralized you have a little more cost.

Shouldn't run you over $3k out the door and could be even less since you already have gas lines. If you can mount it closer to your main water fixture it will run less.
I've put in over 100 over the last 6 years and never had a complaint. Our company has put in over 500 over the last 20 years and never removed one. I work on about 5-10 a year and most are over 10 years and don't require much work to fix.

Rinnai offers a 12 yr warranty and stand behind their product 100%.

Their boilers are an amazing machine and I'm installing about 1-2 every 2 months now.

Just as an aside, if it means anything to you. The boiler modules for tankless Rinnai heaters are manufactured in beautiful Springfield Mo.

[A Salt Weapon]

Originally Posted by Flachief58

Rinnai is definitely a good unit and has been a leader in the field for some time, but Navien is giving them a run for their money. They are 99% efficient, have all stainless inner workings, and a built in recirculating pump. Rinnai is a ford, Navien is a Cadillac

I will say I've heard good things about Navien, just yet to put one in. in about a month or two I'll be installing one of their combi units and that will be the first Navien installed in this town. I've been looking forward to seeing inside of it.

[Iowanian]

I have a Marathon/Rheem 85 gallon electric water heater. It's one of the lifetime warranty/plastic tanks and is tied into my geo unit.


I'm not certain it's the way I'd go again. The energy efficiency is great and there are benefits to the setup, but I have 1 issue.

With this unit for example in the evenings, the kids take baths/showers and say use 30 gallons of water. If I go to shower an hour later, or fill a bubble tub, the water is luke warm, not hot. My guess what happens is you take 85 gallon tank of hot water, refill it with 30-40 gallons of cold water and it takes the electric too long to heat it back up.

I've considered adding a 2nd heater in series, where the main use was from the geo, but refilled from the 2nd unit so it was essentially 85+40/50 gallons of hot water.


If on-demand was more efficient I think I'd have looked alot harder at that. As it was, geo required the larger tank anyway and I thought this would save me money in the long run.

[A Salt Weapon]

The nice thing about tankless is it never runs out, unless you run out of gas.

I sell quite a few to people not for the cost savings but because there electrics can't keep up with demand. I'm guilty as well, after softball tourneys I'll use my shower as a hot tub, I added a second shower head on the other side and will stand there just getting blasted with hot water for an hour or so. Costs me about $1.50 in fuel for an hour shower at 5-6gpm of 115* water.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by A Salt Weapon

lol, I was referring to that in the event of a major disaster the gas lines get shut off at the source, if you have propane you have your own tank and storage. Thus emergency time with nat gas no hot water/cooking (or heat, power through a genset, etc) with propane come disaster time you still have hot water/cooking etc.

Ah, okay. Thanks for clarifying!

[Holladay]

I will check the thermocouple first.

You all have been very helpful. Thanks

[Jimmya]

So are the tankless better than they used to be....many of my friends complain about them.

[FlaChief58]

Originally Posted by Jimmya

So are the tankless better than they used to be....many of my friends complain about them.

You get what you pay for. if you buy a home depot special for $150, that's not going to work nearly as well as the units that we have been talking about on here

[FlaChief58]

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup

The manufacturers of HWH are changing sizes as well. The vendor that supplies one of the local plumbing outfits has put them on notice of the dimension changes. Knowing several plumbers very well I must say I would not use a tankless.

Yes and with that size increase come a pretty hefty price increase. If you're thinking of replacing your water heater, do it before April 16th.

I'm not sure what your plumber friends have against tankless heaters. If you buy a good one sized to fit your needs and maintain it, they're great

[Stewie]

I'll chime in.

The ridiculous expense of decent tankless water heaters can never recover their cost. We did the math and it's just stupid expensive to install a tankless heater... not to mention the yearly maintenance by a professional.

Buy a quality tank heater (some even guarantee infinite hot water). Much better value and you don't need the expense of a plumber to "maintain" the tankless every year.

[FlaChief58]

Originally Posted by Stewie

I'll chime in.

The ridiculous expense of decent tankless water heaters can never recover their cost. We did the math and it's just stupid expensive to install a tankless heater... not to mention the yearly maintenance by a professional.

Buy a quality tank heater (some even guarantee infinite hot water). Much better value and you don't need the expense of a plumber to "maintain" the tankless every year.

They're not for everyone to be sure. Like I said earlier, price is the biggest deterrent right now, but as more and more people get them, the price will come down and tank water heaters will go the way of the dinosaurs

[A Salt Weapon]

Maintenence?

On a tankless, surely this is a joke. Rinnai "recommends" flushing with vinegar yearly, however it's not required and they warranty without. Even if you do, it takes 15 minutes and costs a gal of vinegar. Clean the inlet screen? Takes 2 seconds and is only necessary if it's completely filled with crap from the water lines. I know of many Rinnai's that are 15-20 years old, never had maintenence and function flawlessly. Hell the one at my dads house is over 15 years old and the vent is smashed to shit from ice dams falling on it, still works fine. It's never had any work done on it ever.

[FlaChief58]

Originally Posted by A Salt Weapon

Maintenence?

On a tankless, surely this is a joke. Rinnai "recommends" flushing with vinegar yearly, however it's not required and they warranty without. Even if you do, it takes 15 minutes and costs a gal of vinegar. Clean the inlet screen? Takes 2 seconds and is only necessary if it's completely filled with crap from the water lines. I know of many Rinnai's that are 15-20 years old, never had maintenence and function flawlessly. Hell the one at my dads house is over 15 years old and the vent is smashed to shit from ice dams falling on it, still works fine. It's never had any work done on it ever.

It's all in the water quality. In florida, our water is very hard and because of that, a lot of manufacturers won't honor their own warranty unless the owner has a water softener installed and is serviced annually. Obviously in different parts of the country the water quality is much better and Heaters need less maintenance