No Chris Jones at OTA's.

[O.city]

As expected, Chiefs DT Chris Jones has not reported for the start of OTAs this week, per a source.

— Terez A. Paylor (@TerezPaylor) May 21, 2019

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by staylor26

That’s exactly why we will sign one before.

I hope both.

But it doesn't sound like jones is happy right now.

And maybe the chiefs think tyreek is worth less and he doesn't?

Both situations could get ugly.

I say pay them both if tyreek is good to go

[RunKC]

I think the Jones struggles in run defense were because he wanted to get paid. Teams don’t pay guys like him for being good run defenders. You can get good run defenders like Nnandi in the mid rounds every year. The best quality you can have in this league as a DL is being a damn good pass rusher.

I think this will get done and Jones will do whatever the staff asks of him. He’s not like Ford. He can be a good overall player.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by SAUTO

I hope both.

But it doesn't sound like jones is happy right now.

And maybe the chiefs think tyreek is worth less and he doesn't?

Both situations could get ugly.

I say pay them both if tyreek is good to go

If we can get Jones under contract for a deal similar to Clark, that’s a complete no brainer. Do it yesterday, imo.

If Tyreek will sign a carbon copy of ODBs deal, sign him the moment you know he’s in the clear. 5/90 with 20m signing bonus and 41 in guarantees.

That would lock up both in KC through 2024.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by BossChief

If we can get Jones under contract for a deal similar to Clark, that’s a complete no brainer. Do it yesterday, imo.

If Tyreek will sign a carbon copy of ODBs deal, sign him the moment you know he’s in the clear. 5/90 with 20m signing bonus and 41 in guarantees.

That would lock up both in KC through 2024.

I'm in. You're in.

Are they in though?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by RunKC

I think the Jones struggles in run defense were because he wanted to get paid. Teams don’t pay guys like him for being good run defenders. You can get good run defenders like Nnandi in the mid rounds every year. The best quality you can have in this league as a DL is being a damn good pass rusher.

I think this will get done and Jones will do whatever the staff asks of him. He’s not like Ford. He can be a good overall player.

That's fine.

But if you're paying him $20+ million/yr, I'm gonna expect more than 9 sacks and sound run defense.

He needs to be able to be a premier pass rusher AND a good run defender for the kind of money he's evidently looking for.

If he's a pass-rush specialist on the interior - that's fine. I'll pay for that. But I'll pay for that....not a 3-down force.

That's all I'm saying - not that he doesn't have a value or even a lot of it. But if he has to sell out and abandon run responsibility to get premier sack numbers, that's a different price point. And if maintaining run responsibility makes him a good but not great pass rusher, well that's a different price point as well.

He doesn't seem to want to accept that fact.

[BossChief]

Fletcher Cox signed his deal in 2016 for 6/102 when the cap was 155m.

If you extrapolate that deal to today’s 189m cap, that equates to 6/124m. The guarantees extrapolate to 44m in full guarantees.

If he was looking for top 4-3DT $$$ in history, that’s what his current market value is.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Fletcher Cox signed his deal in 2016 for 6/102 when the cap was 155m.

If you extrapolate that deal to today’s 189m cap, that equates to 6/124m. The guarantees extrapolate to 44m in full guarantees.

If he was looking for top 4-3DT $$$ in history, that’s what his current market value is.

And there's no way I'd sign Chris Jones to Fletcher Cox's deal without seeing if he can do anything resembling what Fletcher Cox can.

He simply hasn't ever done that job and when I see a guy who's ditching the dirty work to chase sacks from the 3 and 5 techniques, I'm awfully nervous about just assuming he'll suddenly start doing that heavy lifting from inside.

He's not as well rounded a player as Cox, nor was he as established in the role he'll be asked to play. That's important.

[BossChief]

Seriously.

If Jones would sign a carbon copy of Clark’s deal, they better get that done before he changes his mind.

That would be amazing value for a guy with his talents that is barely scratching the surface and has HOF upside.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Seriously.

If Jones would sign a carbon copy of Clark’s deal, they better get that done before he changes his mind.

That would be amazing value for a guy with his talents that is barely scratching the surface and has HOF upside.

Even pro-rated it's identical in AAV to Cox with more guarantees over a shorter term.

How is that an 'amazing value'? He'd have to be one of the top 3 defensive players in the entire NFL at that rate.

There are no 'amazing values' to be found in the world of $20+ million/season contracts for interior DL. Now could he live up to it? Maybe - it's not completely doomed to failure at those numbers. But there's no way I'm gonna see signing him to Frank Clark's contract to anchor the middle of the line when he's demonstrated no ability to be effective against the pass AND run as some sort of privilege.

That's how you get sold on the undercoat protectant right there. That's not a screamin' bargain that's gonna pass you by!

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

That's fine.

But if you're paying him $20+ million/yr, I'm gonna expect more than 9 sacks and sound run defense.

He needs to be able to be a premier pass rusher AND a good run defender for the kind of money he's evidently looking for.

If he's a pass-rush specialist on the interior - that's fine. I'll pay for that. But I'll pay for that....not a 3-down force.

That's all I'm saying - not that he doesn't have a value or even a lot of it. But if he has to sell out and abandon run responsibility to get premier sack numbers, that's a different price point. And if maintaining run responsibility makes him a good but not great pass rusher, well that's a different price point as well.

He doesn't seem to want to accept that fact.

If he’s only looking for Clark’s deal, that’s below his value level.

The mans gonna be unstoppable under Daly once he defines his technique and becomes more disciplined. Waiting for that to happen to pay him would be a HUGE mistake.

[Chief Roundup]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Fletcher Cox signed his deal in 2016 for 6/102 when the cap was 155m.

If you extrapolate that deal to today’s 189m cap, that equates to 6/124m. The guarantees extrapolate to 44m in full guarantees.

If he was looking for top 4-3DT $$$ in history, that’s what his current market value is.

Fescoe reported that there was an offer of 5/105 with $42-$47M guaranteed. Jones agent turned it down and it came out that they were about $20 -$25M apart in guaranteed money.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And there's no way I'd sign Chris Jones to Fletcher Cox's deal without seeing if he can do anything resembling what Fletcher Cox can.

He simply hasn't ever done that job and when I see a guy who's ditching the dirty work to chase sacks from the 3 and 5 techniques, I'm awfully nervous about just assuming he'll suddenly start doing that heavy lifting from inside.

He's not as well rounded a player as Cox, nor was he as established in the role he'll be asked to play. That's important.

First 3 years:

Cox
12.5 sacks
2 forced fumbles
0 interceptions


Jones has
24 sacks
6 forced fumbles
2 interceptions

And now Jones will be getting elite coaching to round out his game.

This is a buy low opportunity for KC.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BossChief

If he’s only looking for Clark’s deal, that’s below his value level.

The mans gonna be unstoppable under Daly once he defines his technique and becomes more disciplined. Waiting for that to happen to pay him would be a HUGE mistake.

It would be dead on with his talent level.

Your prorated Cox deal is 6/124 with $43 guaranteed. Clark's deal at 5/$104 is a virtual carbon copy of Cox's pro-rated deal with the same guarantees but with an earlier excape into FA.

It's a better contract than the one Cox signed even if pro-rated. And he's not the bet Cox was when signed.

If that ****ing guy's asking for $60+ million guaranteed, he's looking for Khalil Mack money and he can get bent.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It would be dead on with his talent level.

Your prorated Cox deal is 6/124 with $43 guaranteed. Clark's deal at 5/$104 is a virtual carbon copy of Cox's pro-rated deal with the same guarantees but with an earlier excape into FA.

It's a better contract than the one Cox signed even if pro-rated. And he's not the bet Cox was when signed.

If that ****ing guy's asking for $60+ million guaranteed, he's looking for Khalil Mack money and he can get bent.

We’re usually not far off from each other on how we see players, but in this instance I think we’re seeing different players all together.

I see a kid that wants to be great and to showcase the results of his hard work. Chris dropped a ton of weight and worked every day on techniques to be a better pass rusher and it worked. I also see a kid that recognized opportunities to impact games and took them. Sometimes those gambles paid off and sometimes they didn’t.

The kid has showed the ability to work his ass off to improve greatly every year and there isn’t a doubt in my mid that will continue. I think he will take to Daly’s coaching and become the best 4-3 DT of this era.

Cox NEVER had the upside Jones has.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BossChief

We’re usually not far off from each other on how we see players, but in this instance I think we’re seeing different players all together.

I see a kid that wants to be great and to showcase the results of his hard work. Chris dropped a ton of weight and worked every day on techniques to be a better pass rusher and it worked. I also see a kid that recognized opportunities to impact games and took them. Sometimes those gambles paid off and sometimes they didn’t.

The kid has showed the ability to work his ass off to improve greatly every year and there isn’t a doubt in my mid that will continue. I think he will take to Daly’s coaching and become the best 4-3 DT of this era.

Cox NEVER had the upside Jones has.

You're making a presumption I'm unwilling to make.

You seem to believe he was gambling to make a larger impact. I think he was robbing Peter to pay Paul to pad his 'contract' stats. As part of your view you're presuming that he can still be an impact pass-rusher while also actually doing ALL of his job instead of just the fun stuff.

I simply saw him blow off assignments, refuse to engage blockers or refuse to fill gaps because he was guessing WAY too often. That's not gambling, that's just being selfish. That's putting himself ahead of the team.

And ultimately I don't even blame him. I'm willing to let a young kid try to get his paper. But I'm not willing to also assume that if he wanted to he COULD'VE been a more complete player. Or take as faith that by moving inside where he's going to get double teamed essentially every play, he's going to continue to scrap. Not when he showed a general unwillingness to do so on the edge.

He's going to a nastier, dirtier position and showed a streak of not being a huge fan of doing the dirty work (going all the way back to his college days).