Life Something of a moral dilemma - Page 8

Wallcrawler · 11-15-2014, 10:38 PM

So, Im in position to take over the reigns of the store Im currently working in. Its a very small staff, three of us managers and four part time employees.

Things go pretty well most of the time, despite some maturity issues with my direct supervisor. He's only 26, and as far as the business goes, he knows literally everything. Theres no task or problem or issue that he cannot readily resolve within a few minutes.

However, when it comes to actually leading a team of people, this guy is ASS. For real. Schedule changes with little to no notice, making people stay longer so that he can leave early, calling people in early so that he can go home, and being a dick in general about requests for time off even if they are the required two weeks in advance.

So we have a part timer who does a decent job, not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but the effort is there. He's decided that we are going to part ways with this person, but Im going to be the one to cut the ties.

Over the phone.

To me, this is complete bullshit. The guy being fired, we'll call him "Joe" is only being fired because he's called the boss out on multiple offenses of laziness, both just hanging out in back while on a shift, as well as the multiple counts of leaving early. Joe's broken plans repeatedly, without complaint, to come in early so Boss could leave early. No emergency, just tired of being there.

The first thing I tell Boss is that its chickenshit to fire someone over the phone. If Im going to take your ability to provide for your family from you, Im going to at least have the sac to look you in the face when I do it, and tell you why.

Boss gives zero ****s what I think, or what my view is. He's the boss, Im the subordinate, and my instructions are to call Joe in the morning and tell him that his services are no longer required.

If I refuse, Ill be documented for insubordination and my position to take over the business will take a substantial hit, because the third manager "Yes Man" is a bit spineless when it comes to taking a stand on anything, and simply does what he's told without question.

Now, I have no problem with Joe. Joe could be faster, and smarter, but Joe is always on time, always covers shifts when needed, and always works 100% of the time he is present. In short, dude's not perfect but he's doing everything he can at all times. That goes a long way in my book.

I don't really know what I should do. I mean I want to tell Boss to go **** himself and if he wants to be a chickenshit and fire Joe over the phone for being called out as a lazy **** from time to time, that's his problem and not mine.

On the other hand, I could lose my position to Yes Man and potentially screw myself out of a nice pay increase, perks, and better job security when Boss transfers in June.

Going over Boss' head is out of the question, as the District Manager and Boss are aquainted outside of work and have known each other for about 5 years.

So my choice is to call up Joe in the morning and tell him that he's fired and not be able to tell him exactly why he's being fired, or to tell my Boss to **** off and put my future at risk.

Its such a shit thing to do to someone, especially so close to Christmas.

Aries Walker · 11-16-2014, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brainiac

Save Joe's phone number. Call him in June and offer him a job.

This is the best advice I've seen in this thread.

58-4ever · 11-16-2014, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bwana

I got jerked around by my company about two weeks ago, got pissed off and starting looking. Within two days I had several offers and negotiated with a great new company, I start December 1st. The owner of the new company would have damn near given me his house to come to work for him. I told him what I needed to come over (which was the moon) and he gave me more than I asked for, much more. He even threw in 2 instant bonus weeks of vacation (paid) so I could take my annual trip to Belize in Feb. I got more respect from him in 5 minutes than I did from my current employer in 5 years. I will walk through fire for this guy and make him a lot of money.

I'm going into work tomorrow and putting in my two weeks notice. What I really want to do is walk in, bounce the truck keys off the owners chest and say "consider that my resignation slap dick," but as hard as it is, I'm going to take the high road and offer up my two weeks.

They will likely get butt hurt and tell me to just leave, but I'm good with that and hope that's the way things go down. I wouldn't mind the two weeks to get things done around the house and if I'm there for two weeks with nothing to lose, things could get a little western.

It's best just to stick a fork in this one, it's done.

I've already talked to my top customers about the move in person one on one and they know why I'm hitting the road and that's all I really cared about. I will be selling to all of them with my new company in two weeks. My soon to be former company will be out in the cold holding their Johnson's trying to figure out where several million dollars worth of pending orders went. I won't lie it's going to be a great Monday.

'

So they don't have a non-compete or solicitation? Congrats on the new gig!

Wallcrawler · 11-16-2014, 09:28 AM

Update:

Just dropped the bomb. Explained I wasn't doing it, told him it was a chickenshit thing to do and that if we were doing documentation for insubordination lets ****ing get to it because I couldn't ****ing wait.

I approached it like the nerdy schoolkid who's had enough of the school bully and KNOWS, absolutely KNOWS he has no chance to win this fight, but psyches himself up so completely for it that he just doesn't care and goes full on psycho, begging the bully to hit him.

But then he just sat there with a look on his face I can only describe as a mix between Herm Edwards in the fourth quarter looking at the scoreboard, and a guy who just had a massive deuce dropped in his freshly made bowl of cheerios.

He told me to watch the floor, because he needed a cigarette and he went outside.

We'll see what happens I guess.

Edit: And yes for those keeping score at home, I do feel like a bit of D-bag for bitching about Candy Crush on the clock and then posting on CP. while at work. Don't you judge me you ****ers!

**Bwana** · 11-16-2014, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 58-4ever

'

So they don't have a non-compete or solicitation? Congrats on the new gig!

Nope they aren't that street smart and thanks.

**Iowanian** · 11-16-2014, 09:37 AM

I think when you call him you should sing a song to make him feel better.

LET HIM GO.....LET HIM GOOOOOOOOOO.....JOE YOU CAN'T WORK HERE ANYMOOOOOOORE.

Being cold never bothered me, anyway.

**mdchiefsfan** · 11-16-2014, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

Update:

Just dropped the bomb. Explained I wasn't doing it, told him it was a chickenshit thing to do and that if we were doing documentation for insubordination lets ****ing get to it because I couldn't ****ing wait.

I approached it like the nerdy schoolkid who's had enough of the school bully and KNOWS, absolutely KNOWS he has no chance to win this fight, but psyches himself up so completely for it that he just doesn't care and goes full on psycho, begging the bully to hit him.

But then he just sat there with a look on his face I can only describe as a mix between Herm Edwards in the fourth quarter looking at the scoreboard, and a guy who just had a massive deuce dropped in his freshly made bowl of cheerios.

He told me to watch the floor, because he needed a cigarette and he went outside.

We'll see what happens I guess.

Edit: And yes for those keeping score at home, I do feel like a bit of D-bag for bitching about Candy Crush on the clock and then posting on CP. while at work. Don't you judge me you ****ers!

Felt good, didn't it?

Wallcrawler · 11-16-2014, 09:58 AM

So, not sure what to think on this one. Boss came back in and said that I should use some paid time off and relax. He was like "Arent the Chiefs playing this afternoon? Why don't you take off early and watch the game, and Ill hold this down until Yes Man gets here."

Said we didn't have to do this right now, and that we should just talk about things when "we both had a chance to calm down."

In any case, I don't have to fire anyone AND I get to see the game today. While being paid.

Ill take it.

**mdchiefsfan** · 11-16-2014, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

So, not sure what to think on this one. Boss came back in and said that I should use some paid time off and relax. He was like "Arent the Chiefs playing this afternoon? Why don't you take off early and watch the game, and Ill hold this down until Yes Man gets here."

Said we didn't have to do this right now, and that we should just talk about things when "we both had a chance to calm down."

In any case, I don't have to fire anyone AND I get to see the game today. While being paid.

Ill take it.

Probably gained some respect from him for standing your ground.

Wallcrawler · 11-16-2014, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdchiefsfan

Probably gained some respect from him for standing your ground.

Wife said its either a very successful bluff call, or Im being set up by the Boss and Yes Man for something nasty while Im out watching the game.

Ive been there a long time, and Yes Man cant lace my shoes on his best day, so Im betting on called bluff. Id rather not think about the other.

MikeMaslowski · 11-16-2014, 10:17 AM

I can see the write up now. Wallcrawler yelled at me, called me a chickenshit and then said he was going to watch a football game and that I better not clock him out or he would **** my sister.

You are screwed dude.

**mdchiefsfan** · 11-16-2014, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

Wife said its either a very successful bluff call, or Im being set up by the Boss and Yes Man for something nasty while Im out watching the game.

Ive been there a long time, and Yes Man cant lace my shoes on his best day, so Im betting on called bluff. Id rather not think about the other.

What do you mean by bluff call?

**mdchiefsfan** · 11-16-2014, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeMaslowski

I can see the write up now. Wallcrawler yelled at me, called me a chickenshit and then said he was going to watch a football game and that I better not clock him out or he would **** my sister.

You are screwed dude.

Wallcrawler · 11-16-2014, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdchiefsfan

What do you mean by bluff call?

He originally said that I was going to fire Joe because he wanted it done. I was going to do it over the phone and if I didn't, he was going to document me for insubordination and that would affect my positioning to take over the business when he leaves. He was very blunt, and matter of fact about it.

Well, I didn't do what he wanted, and then he didn't document me for insubordination like he said he would be "required to do". Im thinking he knows he wouldn't get away with just firing a dude that called him out for being lazy and was hoping that Id just do it with the threat to my future looming should I refuse.

I don't know how you go from "If you don't do this, Im documenting you for insubordination" to "lets just talk about this when we've all had a chance to calm down" when I go in there and refuse, and present myself for the documentation for insubordination. He had the perfect opportunity to document me for it and he didn't take it.

Theres a reason, and Im thinking it would be the shitstorm that would follow if he did and the information I put with it.

**Iowanian** · 11-16-2014, 10:41 AM

Beware the Ides of Yes Man Text.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

Wife said its either a very successful bluff call, or Im being set up by the Boss and Yes Man for something nasty while Im out watching the game.

Ive been there a long time, and Yes Man cant lace my shoes on his best day, so Im betting on called bluff. Id rather not think about the other.

**SAUTO** · 11-16-2014, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

He originally said that I was going to fire Joe because he wanted it done. I was going to do it over the phone and if I didn't, he was going to document me for insubordination and that would affect my positioning to take over the business when he leaves. He was very blunt, and matter of fact about it.

Well, I didn't do what he wanted, and then he didn't document me for insubordination like he said he would be "required to do". Im thinking he knows he wouldn't get away with just firing a dude that called him out for being lazy and was hoping that Id just do it with the threat to my future looming should I refuse.

I don't know how you go from "If you don't do this, Im documenting you for insubordination" to "lets just talk about this when we've all had a chance to calm down" when I go in there and refuse, and present myself for the documentation for insubordination. He had the perfect opportunity to document me for it and he didn't take it.

Theres a reason, and Im thinking it would be the shitstorm that would follow if he did and the information I put with it.

Either that OR he's telling joe to call you and let you know you are terminated.

11-15-2014, 10:38 PM
Wallcrawler How tall is this thing? Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ground 0 for enema of US. Casino cash: $4232912	Something of a moral dilemma So, Im in position to take over the reigns of the store Im currently working in. Its a very small staff, three of us managers and four part time employees. Things go pretty well most of the time, despite some maturity issues with my direct supervisor. He's only 26, and as far as the business goes, he knows literally everything. Theres no task or problem or issue that he cannot readily resolve within a few minutes. However, when it comes to actually leading a team of people, this guy is ASS. For real. Schedule changes with little to no notice, making people stay longer so that he can leave early, calling people in early so that he can go home, and being a dick in general about requests for time off even if they are the required two weeks in advance. So we have a part timer who does a decent job, not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but the effort is there. He's decided that we are going to part ways with this person, but Im going to be the one to cut the ties. Over the phone. To me, this is complete bullshit. The guy being fired, we'll call him "Joe" is only being fired because he's called the boss out on multiple offenses of laziness, both just hanging out in back while on a shift, as well as the multiple counts of leaving early. Joe's broken plans repeatedly, without complaint, to come in early so Boss could leave early. No emergency, just tired of being there. The first thing I tell Boss is that its chickenshit to fire someone over the phone. If Im going to take your ability to provide for your family from you, Im going to at least have the sac to look you in the face when I do it, and tell you why. Boss gives zero **s what I think, or what my view is. He's the boss, Im the subordinate, and my instructions are to call Joe in the morning and tell him that his services are no longer required. If I refuse, Ill be documented for insubordination and my position to take over the business will take a substantial hit, because the third manager "Yes Man" is a bit spineless when it comes to taking a stand on anything, and simply does what he's told without question. Now, I have no problem with Joe. Joe could be faster, and smarter, but Joe is always on time, always covers shifts when needed, and always works 100% of the time he is present. In short, dude's not perfect but he's doing everything he can at all times. That goes a long way in my book. I don't really know what I should do. I mean I want to tell Boss to go himself and if he wants to be a chickenshit and fire Joe over the phone for being called out as a lazy from time to time, that's his problem and not mine. On the other hand, I could lose my position to Yes Man and potentially screw myself out of a nice pay increase, perks, and better job security when Boss transfers in June. Going over Boss' head is out of the question, as the District Manager and Boss are aquainted outside of work and have known each other for about 5 years. So my choice is to call up Joe in the morning and tell him that he's fired and not be able to tell him exactly why he's being fired, or to tell my Boss to ** off and put my future at risk. Its such a shit thing to do to someone, especially so close to Christmas.
Posts: 6,932

11-16-2014, 09:28 AM	#108
Wallcrawler How tall is this thing? Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ground 0 for enema of US. Casino cash: $4232912	Update: Just dropped the bomb. Explained I wasn't doing it, told him it was a chickenshit thing to do and that if we were doing documentation for insubordination lets **ing get to it because I couldn't ing wait. I approached it like the nerdy schoolkid who's had enough of the school bully and KNOWS, absolutely KNOWS he has no chance to win this fight, but psyches himself up so completely for it that he just doesn't care and goes full on psycho, begging the bully to hit him. But then he just sat there with a look on his face I can only describe as a mix between Herm Edwards in the fourth quarter looking at the scoreboard, and a guy who just had a massive deuce dropped in his freshly made bowl of cheerios. He told me to watch the floor, because he needed a cigarette and he went outside. We'll see what happens I guess. Edit: And yes for those keeping score at home, I do feel like a bit of D-bag for bitching about Candy Crush on the clock and then posting on CP. while at work. Don't you judge me you **ers! __________________ She did not open her eyes this morning. I don't know what else to say.
Posts: 6,932

11-16-2014, 09:37 AM	#110
Iowanian Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Utopia Casino cash: $4758454	I think when you call him you should sing a song to make him feel better. LET HIM GO.....LET HIM GOOOOOOOOOO.....JOE YOU CAN'T WORK HERE ANYMOOOOOOORE. Being cold never bothered me, anyway.
Posts: 61,531

11-16-2014, 09:58 AM	#112
Wallcrawler How tall is this thing? Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ground 0 for enema of US. Casino cash: $4232912	So, not sure what to think on this one. Boss came back in and said that I should use some paid time off and relax. He was like "Arent the Chiefs playing this afternoon? Why don't you take off early and watch the game, and Ill hold this down until Yes Man gets here." Said we didn't have to do this right now, and that we should just talk about things when "we both had a chance to calm down." In any case, I don't have to fire anyone AND I get to see the game today. While being paid. Ill take it. __________________ She did not open her eyes this morning. I don't know what else to say.
Posts: 6,932

11-16-2014, 10:17 AM	#115
MikeMaslowski There's always next year. Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $10009290	I can see the write up now. Wallcrawler yelled at me, called me a chickenshit and then said he was going to watch a football game and that I better not clock him out or he would **** my sister. You are screwed dude.
Posts: 2,219