Something of a moral dilemma

[Wallcrawler]

So, Im in position to take over the reigns of the store Im currently working in. Its a very small staff, three of us managers and four part time employees.

Things go pretty well most of the time, despite some maturity issues with my direct supervisor. He's only 26, and as far as the business goes, he knows literally everything. Theres no task or problem or issue that he cannot readily resolve within a few minutes.

However, when it comes to actually leading a team of people, this guy is ASS. For real. Schedule changes with little to no notice, making people stay longer so that he can leave early, calling people in early so that he can go home, and being a dick in general about requests for time off even if they are the required two weeks in advance.

So we have a part timer who does a decent job, not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but the effort is there. He's decided that we are going to part ways with this person, but Im going to be the one to cut the ties.

Over the phone.

To me, this is complete bullshit. The guy being fired, we'll call him "Joe" is only being fired because he's called the boss out on multiple offenses of laziness, both just hanging out in back while on a shift, as well as the multiple counts of leaving early. Joe's broken plans repeatedly, without complaint, to come in early so Boss could leave early. No emergency, just tired of being there.

The first thing I tell Boss is that its chickenshit to fire someone over the phone. If Im going to take your ability to provide for your family from you, Im going to at least have the sac to look you in the face when I do it, and tell you why.

Boss gives zero ****s what I think, or what my view is. He's the boss, Im the subordinate, and my instructions are to call Joe in the morning and tell him that his services are no longer required.

If I refuse, Ill be documented for insubordination and my position to take over the business will take a substantial hit, because the third manager "Yes Man" is a bit spineless when it comes to taking a stand on anything, and simply does what he's told without question.

Now, I have no problem with Joe. Joe could be faster, and smarter, but Joe is always on time, always covers shifts when needed, and always works 100% of the time he is present. In short, dude's not perfect but he's doing everything he can at all times. That goes a long way in my book.

I don't really know what I should do. I mean I want to tell Boss to go **** himself and if he wants to be a chickenshit and fire Joe over the phone for being called out as a lazy **** from time to time, that's his problem and not mine.

On the other hand, I could lose my position to Yes Man and potentially screw myself out of a nice pay increase, perks, and better job security when Boss transfers in June.


Going over Boss' head is out of the question, as the District Manager and Boss are aquainted outside of work and have known each other for about 5 years.

So my choice is to call up Joe in the morning and tell him that he's fired and not be able to tell him exactly why he's being fired, or to tell my Boss to **** off and put my future at risk.

Its such a shit thing to do to someone, especially so close to Christmas.

[Wallcrawler]

Originally Posted by mdchiefsfan

Is there an HR department in your company? Most places don't allow solitary power like you're describing.

There is, and it usually trickles down through the Regional, and then the District Manager.

District Manager and Regional Manager are buddies, so when District tells Regional that Boss is in the right, there's not going to be much questioning.

Arkansas is a "Right to Hire/Fire" state so basically I could fire your ass for looking at me crossways and there's really nothing you could do about it.

This place has been through several managers, and theft was up, profits were down, it was pretty much a nightmare for the DM and if he came here he had to stay for a week to right the ship. As they shuffled through managers hand over fist, they finally found some consistency when Boss took over.

Basically, our productivity is insane, our numbers are great, losses are way down, and Boss looks like a goldenboy because he's passing it off as he's doing this shit singlehandedly, like the staff we have now had nothing to do with it.

He's in a really good position right now. He could probably off someone on the front steps and they would believe he must have had a good reason for it.

He's simply a lazy, selfish asshole who is exercising a little bit of that power now that someone has ruffled his tailfeathers.

[cdcox]

When I have had to let someone go, I have always done it face to face. But I consider it a best practice and the right thing to do, rather than a moral imperative.

The bigger question is, will this guy be micromanaging you (telling you what to do and how to do it) once you take over the store? If so, I'd be polishing my resume.

If it is 7 more months of dealing with this guy, you can expect a new "test" like this every week or two. You have to decide if you can deal with that to get the promotion you want.

[Katipan]

Originally Posted by mdchiefsfan

That's bullshit. The man shouldn't be fired for speaking honestly. Heaven forbid if someone takes what most companies offer, which is an anonymous hotline to HR for just these types of situations.

You're pretty lucky if you have the kind of job where you can not do what your boss tells you to do.

[mdchiefsfan]

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

There is, and it usually trickles down through the Regional, and then the District Manager.

District Manager and Regional Manager are buddies, so when District tells Regional that Boss is in the right, there's not going to be much questioning.

Arkansas is a "Right to Hire/Fire" state so basically I could fire your ass for looking at me crossways and there's really nothing you could do about it.

This place has been through several managers, and theft was up, profits were down, it was pretty much a nightmare for the DM and if he came here he had to stay for a week to right the ship. As they shuffled through managers hand over fist, they finally found some consistency when Boss took over.

Basically, our productivity is insane, our numbers are great, losses are way down, and Boss looks like a goldenboy because he's passing it off as he's doing this shit singlehandedly, like the staff we have now had nothing to do with it.

He's in a really good position right now. He could probably off someone on the front steps and they would believe he must have had a good reason for it.

He's simply a lazy, selfish asshole who is exercising a little bit of that power now that someone has ruffled his tailfeathers.

So what you're telling me is your perception of the company's situation is forcing you into a moral dilemma. Most calls into HR can be anonymous and mention the words potential lawsuit and you have their ears.

Maryland is also a right to fire state, but we have protocols in place to prevent unemployment, none-the-less lawsuits. This man could have a legitimate claim that he was fired for speaking his mind about the lack of effort from this manager and that it was a personal attack rather than a business decision. I suggest you check which angles you can pursue anonymously to put a bug in the higher ups ear.

I just witnessed a GM at a retrial store I used to work for get fired through an anonymous system to the Corperate office HR for lack of moral in the store. No one was punished for their calls. You provide the info you are comfortable giving.
Plain and simple.

[mdchiefsfan]

Originally Posted by Katipan

You're pretty lucky if you have the kind of job where you can not do what your boss tells you to do.

I have comfort in knowing that my boss won't ask me to do anything out of my moral scope to cover his ass, because he knows there are means to bury him if he did.

[Wallcrawler]

Originally Posted by cdcox

The bigger question is, will this guy be micromanaging you (telling you what to do and how to do it) once you take over the store? If so, I'd be polishing my resume.

If it is 7 more months of dealing with this guy, you can expect a new "test" like this every week or two. You have to decide if you can deal with that to get the promotion you want.

Nah, Boss will be gone. Ive been trained specifically for it. It was Boss' out because he hates where he lives. Wants that transfer out, and has his replacement ready as DM requested. He could transfer out sooner than that, but once he's gone, I run the show for better or worse. Ill answer to the DM, and the RM as he does now.

Ive worked with him for about 3 years now. He can be a really great person. Funny, great guy to have a beer with outside of work, but definitely has a selfish/lazy streak that shows up. If he doesn't feel like working, we're going to be picking up the slack one way or another.

Even if I could somehow save Joe's job for now, Boss would be furious about it because "he lost". Joe would then be under so much scrutiny that one mistake could be the end of him. As of now, he hasn't done anything to lose his job, save for making a few statements that pissed off the Boss during a session where Boss was trying to ream his ass for things not getting done fast enough.

He said that if he could get some help between Boss' sessions of Candy Crush in the back, that things might get done a lot faster since there were only two of them in the building.

Or if he stayed and worked his entire shift instead of constantly leaving early. True shit, that just pissed him off.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Give me the boss's number. I'm gonna' have some fun with that prick.

[Lex Luthor]

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

Nah, Boss will be gone. Ive been trained specifically for it. It was Boss' out because he hates where he lives. Wants that transfer out, and has his replacement ready as DM requested. He could transfer out sooner than that, but once he's gone, I run the show for better or worse. Ill answer to the DM, and the RM as he does now.

Ive worked with him for about 3 years now. He can be a really great person. Funny, great guy to have a beer with outside of work, but definitely has a selfish/lazy streak that shows up. If he doesn't feel like working, we're going to be picking up the slack one way or another.

Even if I could somehow save Joe's job for now, Boss would be furious about it because "he lost". Joe would then be under so much scrutiny that one mistake could be the end of him. As of now, he hasn't done anything to lose his job, save for making a few statements that pissed off the Boss during a session where Boss was trying to ream his ass for things not getting done fast enough.

He said that if he could get some help between Boss' sessions of Candy Crush in the back, that things might get done a lot faster since there were only two of them in the building.

Or if he stayed and worked his entire shift instead of constantly leaving early. True shit, that just pissed him off.

Save Joe's phone number. Call him in June and offer him a job.

[Katipan]

Originally Posted by mdchiefsfan

I have comfort in knowing that my boss won't ask me to do anything out of my moral scope.

And thats charming too.

But the man is asking him to do something that isn't illegal and happens all the damn time. Some people even find out theyre going to get fired off the Internet.

It's a shit thing. But it's not the worst thing in the entire world.

[LoneWolf]

Was Joe calling out the manager to his face or behind his back and his comments got back to the manager?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I worked for a retail boss once. Laziest sack of shit I ever saw. Of course, the second man down busted double the ass to make up for it because he wanted that store.

[mdchiefsfan]

Originally Posted by Katipan

And thats charming too.

But the man is asking him to do something that isn't illegal and happens all the damn time. Some people even find out theyre going to get fired off the Internet.

It's a shit thing. But it's not the worst thing in the entire world.

If it is creating a moral dilemma and he has witness information as to why the manager wants the associate fired, he has a means to take things up higher without having his named involved for other people to decide, which removes the moral obligation from his shoulders.

[Halfcan]

Sure is a lot of drama for a Dominoes pizza?

I would tell the boss to go **** himself and start looking for a better job.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Once told that boss a little story relayed to me from another friend who worked in retail about a store manager getting shit-canned by the DM for working less than 20 hours a week while having his subordinates do all the heavy lifting in his absence.

He didn't like that story.

[Lex Luthor]

Originally Posted by Katipan

And thats charming too.

But the man is asking him to do something that isn't illegal and happens all the damn time. Some people even find out theyre going to get fired off the Internet.

It's a shit thing. But it's not the worst thing in the entire world.

Yup.

A couple of friends of mine worked at home for an Internet startup located in Silicon Valley. Every week they had a conference call with a dozen or so people on the line. One day the big boss got on the call and said "The purpose of this call is to tell everyone on the call that they are being let go."

Shit happens.