****The Official 2019 STL Cardinals Thread****

[BigRedChief]

Cardinals announce 25-man Opening Day roster for the 2019 season.

Spoiler!

The Cardinals today announced their 25-man Opening Day roster that includes four first-time Cardinals and 13 players that were developed within their organization.

PITCHERS (12): 60 – John Brebbia-RHP, 22 – Jack Flaherty-RHP, 53 – John Gant- RHP, 49 – Jordan Hicks-RHP, 43 – Dakota Hudson- RHP, 55 – Dominic Leone-RHP, 59 – Mike Mayers- RHP, 21 – Andrew Miller-LHP, 39 – Miles Mikolas-RHP, 29 – Alex Reyes, RHP, 52 – Michael Wacha-RHP, 50 – Adam Wainwright- RHP;

CATCHERS (2): 4 -Yadier Molina, 32 – Matt Wieters;

INFIELDERS (6): 13 - Matt Carpenter, 12 – Paul DeJong, 46 – Paul Goldschmidt, 34 – Yario Muñoz, 33 – Drew Robinson, 16 – Kolten Wong;

OUTFIELDERS (5): 46 – Harrison Bader, 25 - Dexter Fowler, 38 – José Martínez, 41 – Tyler O'Neill, 23 – Marcell Ozuna;

DISABLED LIST (5): 27 - Brett Cecil (10-day, left hand Carpal Tunnel syndrome), 44 – Luke Gregerson (10-day, right shoulder impingement), 18 – Carlos Martínez (right shoulder cuff strain), 3 - Jedd Gyorko (10-day, right calf strain), 67 - Justin Williams (10-day, right hand 2nd metacarpal fracture).

2019 Opening Day Line up

Spoiler!

Starting lineup
Matt Carpenter 3B
Paul Goldschmidt 1B
Paul DeJong SS
Ozuna LF
Yadier Molina C
Dexter Fowler RF
Kolten Wong 2B
Harrison Bader CF

Won the Central Division. Won the NLDS.

NLDS Playoff roster

Spoiler!

Pitchers (12): Miles Mikolas, Jack Flaherty, Adam Wainwright, Dakota Hudson, Genesis Cabrera, Tyler Webb, Andrew Miller, John Brebbia, Daniel Ponce de Leon, Ryan Helsley, Giovanny Gallegos, Carlos Martinez.

Catchers (2): Yadier Molina, Matt Wieters.

Infielders (6): Paul Goldschmidt, Kolten Wong, Paul DeJong, Matt Carpenter, Tommy Edman, Yairo Munoz.

Outfielders (5): Marcell Ozuna, Harrison Bader, Dexter Fowler, Jose Martinez, Randy Arozarena.

NLDS Playoff Game 1 starting lineup

Spoiler!

1. Dexter Fowler, CF

2. Tommy Edman, 3B

3. Paul Goldschmidt, 1B

4. Marcell Ozuna, LF

5. Yadier Molina, C

6. Paul DeJong, SS

7. Kolten Wong, 2B

8. Harrison Bader, CF

9. Miles Mikolas, P

NLCS Game One Starting lineup

Spoiler!

1. Dexter Fowler, CF

2. Kolten Wong, 2B

3. Paul Goldschmidt, 1B

4. Marcell Ozuna, LF

5. Yadier Molina, C

6. Matt Carpenter 3B

7.Tommy Edmond RF

8. Paul DeJong, SS

9. Miles Mikolas P

[BigRedChief]

On a housekeeping note........ should I start the 2020 Cardinals thread or wait until around spring training?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

On a housekeeping note........ should I start the 2020 Cardinals thread or wait until around spring training?

Wait until pitchers and catchers report.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

He's too far away to be a straight across Hudson replacement.

But if Carlos steps back into the rotation, that's a perfect timeline for him to replace the Korean guy in a couple of years.

If it's O'Neill I think I really like that trade and it's a sensible 'domino'. Even clears a 40 man spot (or at least it should).

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Zack Gifford of Birdsontheblack with a similar analysis. His estimates don't quite match mine but where he giveth here and there, he taketh here and there as well. We're in the ballpark of each other.

https://www.birdsontheblack.com/post...-the-cardinals

I'll note that the dude takes virtually the EXACT same approach I do. His conclusion is even a little cleaner:

Matt Carpenter, Andrew Knizner and Elehuris Montero for Arenado.

Seriously folks, if you think Arenado is getting Carlson in a trade or even getting moved straight across for Gorman, you have a dimmer opinion of Mozeliak than even I do and at this point I'd consider letting my wife run the team ahead of Mozo. It isn't going to happen. The market for $35 million/season players will be 2-3 teams at most and I just cannot believe that our local clown will bid against himself that badly.

The Yankees got the Marlins to take their shit contract (Castro, IIRC) in the Stanton deal and they didn't include ANYTHING in the package with him; some scrub organizational depth pieces. You just cannot overstate the impact of mega-contracts on a players trade value.

I’d do the birdsontheblack guy deal yesterday.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

My Rays friends down here that know I’m a Cardinals fan started texting me 30 minutes or so ago. They are pissed. One says you got nothing worth him besides Gorman or Carlson. And the Rays are too stupid to get either of those two.

So what if it's Edman?

Even if the deal doesn't work, I'll be pretty impressed by the balls it would take Mozeliak to try it.

Because 12 months ago, an Edman for Liberatore offer gets you laughed out of the room. And there's a LOT of noise in Edman's ratios (normalize his BABIP and HR/FB rates and his numbers would settle into a figure virtually identical to his AA season in '18).

There's a chance that Edman's found a new normal. There's also a chance that he turns into Adam Frazier going forward and settles into a nice little 2-3 win player for the next several years. If that's who he is, you make that deal.

If he's 80% of what he was last season, he's a 4.5 win player and that's probably too much. If he IS who he was last season that's a 5.5 win player and one of the most valuable young properties in baseball.

So IF that's the deal (and again, I've heard nothing at all to that effect), it takes MAJOR balls by Mozeliak to make it. But you'd almost have to applaud the effort because it's a damn sight better than his usual 'sell low' M.O.

[BigRedChief]

Couple of additions to this story:

-- Tyler O'Neill has been mentioned trade discussions with #Cardinals and teams, including #Rays.

-- Also, John Gant, Cardinals nearing deadline and if no agreement by Friday team does plan to go to arb hearing.https://t.co/YoYVOXnPr4

— Derrick S. Goold (@dgoold) January 9, 2020

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I’d do the birdsontheblack guy deal yesterday.

Yeah, I think you'd have to.

It leaves us with NOTHING at Catcher in 2 years, but you just have to cross that bridge when you get there, I guess. The other guys in the system look to be solid catch/throw guys but are almost certainly more backup caliber guys than true possible starters. There's a latin kid who's developing a bit of a stick who's name escapes me but he's pretty raw and has a ways to go.

But yeah, if that's the damage, I think you have to do it. It would preclude the Ozuna contract because you're still lugging around Fowler's $16 million, but you still have Bader on hand to maybe peddle to the Mets (who were said to be after him in the Wheeler deal) and maybe get that lefty stick I'd like to get in here.

EDIT: the Catcher I was thinking of was Ivan Herrera. Nice performance in A; stumbled a bit as a 19 yr old in High A but that's not unexpected and he recovered nicely in the AFL. Might be something there, especially if the Cardinals are going to extend Molina for a year or two.

[DJ's left nut]

Twitter people are saying they heard Passan on the radio say it sounds like O'Neill, Bader and Woodford.

That's a fair amount to give up but also not bad. If it were 2 of those 3 nobody bats an eye. And when you're sitting at the negotiating table and there's a 4 pitch lefty available who is 6'5'' with a frame to mature into a guy who works in the mid-90s with a wipeout curveball...well, you can't blink over another valuable if flawed player. You kinda have to just swallow hard and pull the trigger.

My complaint with the Cardinals is they always wait too long on moving a guy. Bader's a season away from having marginal trade value if he can't get the breaking ball shit dialed back. O'neill is in the same boat if he can't stay on the field. Woodford's stuff is 5th starter or swingman.

It's the 3 dimes for a quarter deal I say we should be making all the time. The system churns out LOADS of major leaguers who don't move the needle much. If you can swap several of those for a guy with the potential to slot into the 2 spot behind Flaherty for the next 10 years and give you the sort of L/R combo at the top of your rotation that GMs salivate over, you make the deal.

[DJ's left nut]

The plot thickens...

The trade between the #Rays and #STLCards is a big one, involving six pieces, three on each side, sources tell The Athletic. At least two of those pieces are draft picks. LHP Matthew Liberatore, heading to STL, still only known name.

— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) January 9, 2020

Okay - this might be a REAL big deal, gents. Suddenly I'm getting a little worried that Carlson might actually be in play.

Please don't be in play, Dylan.

[Jewish Rabbi]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The plot thickens...

The trade between the #Rays and #STLCards is a big one, involving six pieces, three on each side, sources tell The Athletic. At least two of those pieces are draft picks. LHP Matthew Liberatore, heading to STL, still only known name.

— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) January 9, 2020

Okay - this might be a REAL big deal, gents. Suddenly I'm getting a little worried that Carlson might actually be in play.

Please don't be in play, Dylan.

Yeah, this is what worries me.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Jewish Rabbi

Yeah, this is what worries me.

I can see it now: Pham back to St. Louis for Carlson. My head explodes

[Jewish Rabbi]

What makes the most sense Lib, Kiermeier, and swapping comp balance picks to St Louis.

Obviously send an outfielder to TB but will need more than that to get it done. Who is the last piece?

[siberian khatru]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

I can see it now: Pham back to St. Louis for Carlson. My head explodes

Pham’s in San Diego

[siberian khatru]

Passan: The St. Louis Cardinals are trading OF Jose Martinez, OF Randy Arozarena and a Compensation A pick (after 1st round) to the Tampa Bay Rays for LHP prospect Matt Liberatore, a low-level catching prospect and Compensation B pick (post-2nd), sources familiar with the deal tell ESPN.

[duncan_idaho]

Seems like a really light return for the Rays, honestly.

[Jewish Rabbi]

Originally Posted by siberian khatru

Passan: The St. Louis Cardinals are trading OF Jose Martinez, OF Randy Arozarena and a Compensation A pick (after 1st round) to the Tampa Bay Rays for LHP prospect Matt Liberatore, a low-level catching prospect and Compensation B pick (post-2nd), sources familiar with the deal tell ESPN.

Thank Christ that’s all it was. Honestly could be the best move Mo has made.