The Dark Knight Rises *Spoilers* Thread

[mdchiefsfan]

For anyone who has seen the movie and wants to discuss it.

[mr. tegu]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Man, you guys are way more nitpicky than I am. I went to the movie in order to be entertained. It was very much that. VERY much that. It got your mind and emotions working and topped it off with tremendous action.

That movie was EPIC. Are there things that aren't possible? Absolutely. That's why it is ****ing fiction. If it were all absolutely real, it would be absolutely boring. Or Nolan would be able to find a Wayne Enterprises, Fox, Catwoman, Alfred, and ****ING BATMAN to base them on reality.

Look, you guys are absolutely tearing this apart based on what you guys know. But you have to let it go. I can do that too, Fox kept talking about all the R&D shit being off the books, and the fact of the matter is that a publicly traded company CANNOT keep anything off the books. No matter what, no matter the materiality. They have to file all that with the 10Q and Annual report.

But I can let all that go. Just like you guys need to let the little details go and enjoy the movie. We could rip any movie, TV show, or any work of fiction ever.

Those projects were all off the books before the company went public IIRC. So they never existed is how I would see it.

[Mr. Plow]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

I still contend that, absent of Nolan's lazy parallels to Batman Begins that were the cause of the whole "regain a fear of death" thing that doesn't end up figuring into the film's climax at all like not even one bit, someone choosing to forgo the rope when attempting that climb can be read as an act of fearlessness.

One of the prisoners...I believe the doctor....stated to Bruce essentially that because he was not afraid of death, that he had lost his drive - so in order to work harder, jump farther, fight longer he had to regain that fear of death....because a fear of death will make you fight longer, use all your strength and energy because you don't want to die.

[mr. tegu]

Has anyone else had a dream yet that they were Batman? I have and it was pretty sweet.

[mr. tegu]

Originally Posted by Mr. Plow

One of the prisoners...I believe the doctor....stated to Bruce essentially that because he was not afraid of death, that he had lost his drive - so in order to work harder, jump farther, fight longer he had to regain that fear of death....because a fear of death will make you fight longer, use all your strength and energy because you don't want to die.

Bane told him the same thing when they were fighting. Batman didn't fear death so he fought Bane with a carelessness that got himself beat to a pulp.

[Mr. Plow]

Originally Posted by mr. tegu

Bane told him the same thing when they were fighting. Batman didn't fear death so he fought Bane with a carelessness that got himself beat to a pulp.

Yeah, I remember Bane said something about Batman fighting like a young man or something to that affect.

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by Mr. Plow

One of the prisoners...I believe the doctor....stated to Bruce essentially that because he was not afraid of death, that he had lost his drive - so in order to work harder, jump farther, fight longer he had to regain that fear of death....because a fear of death will make you fight longer, use all your strength and energy because you don't want to die.

And Bruce's martial arts training in Begins taught him to not fear death, because if you don't care if you die then you are free to, well, work harder, jump farther, fight longer, and use all your strength and energy because negative consequences aren't something to be afraid of.

Bruce clearly had to get his groove back, yes, but terming that re-energization as "regaining a fear of death" felt to me like an amateur screenwriting move from someone who was told that parallels are often marks of a good script but lacks the knowledge of why or how to pull them off.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by mr. tegu

Those projects were all off the books before the company went public IIRC. So they never existed is how I would see it.

Doesn't work that way.

[Reaper16]

I mean, really, Bruce didn't get destroyed by Bane because he didn't fear death. He got destroyed by Bane out of hubris. Bruce thought he could just get back in the game after 8 years and health issues and he had no idea what he was getting himself into. Yeah, it's carelessness. But it isn't the logical result of his Keysi training or anything.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Doesn't work that way.

No one is suggesting that "off the books" is legal. I think you're hung up on what's allowable by law instead of what's possible.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

You should, maybe. Not me. It would kill every single bit of joy I ever got out of any movie if I spent the whole time finding holes in the plot.

But, to aid your case, here are some more inaccuracies that you could cite in your attack of the movie.

• The blatant SEC reporting violations that I mentioned above.
• 6 mile blast radius for a neutron bomb? LOL
• Detonating the bomb above the water would leave huge radiation problems for the city.
• No EPA oversight of tunnel building? LOL They want to control water in road ditches. They'd be all over a tunnel project.

Either way, none of that is so egregious that I can't get over it and love the **** out of the movie.

Small fusion bombs aren't dirty, FWIW.

[mr. tegu]

In completely unrelated news, this movie was AWESOME! many people were worried if it would live up to the hype or if it would be as good as the first two. IMO it lived up to the hype and arguments could be made for any of the three movies being the best of the bunch.

[kaplin42]

Originally Posted by Red Brooklyn

I think one big thing to consider here is that Bruce wasn't learning how to conquer his fear of death. He'd already done that.

He was learning how important fear is. The issue is he needed the fear back. I think that plays pretty heavily into his escape. Perhaps not so heavily into defeating Bane, I'll grant you. But I don't think it was entirely pointless or inconsequential.

The movie, to me, seemed to be like Batman Begins in reverse. The whole second half was more about Bruce vs himself than Batman vs Bane. Not arguing that as a strength or a weakness, just making an observation.

I'm fine with Bane being muscle and less brains. And in the end Batman still wasn't going to be able to defeat Bane on his own. But, again, I'm not sure that's what it was about.

And the Breaking Bad crack was just that. It was a crack. Me making fun of myself more than anything. Your comment sounded similar to some of mine re: that show. And I don't think it's worlds apart, frankly. We've seen characters on BB acting completely out of character for the sake of plot, and sometimes, even plot "twists."

Before I read more of this thread, I have to clarify this whole thing.

In the prison, the old guy says that you have to have a fear of death, or you have nothing help you beyond the point of reason. to paraphrase, "how can you fight beyond what you can, how can persevere beyond what is possible without a fear of death, because without the fear of death, you have nothing to fight for"

The rope is nothing more than a safety net, no one ever makes the jump because if they don't make it they know they will still live. Take the rope away, and if you miss the jump, you die.

Batman lost to Bane in the first fight cause he didn't care if he won or lost, if he died it was no big deal to him. He won the fight the second time because he had something to fight for.

Also, it was mentioned in the prison that Bane's mask alleviates the pain of the injuries from when Bane got the shit kicked out of him helping Talia escape. If you watch the second fight between Batman and Bane, you will notice Batman going for the mask.

If this was made clear in the remainder of the thread, sorry, but I was reading this and wanted to help clarify it.

[Mr. Plow]

Originally Posted by kaplin42

In the prison, the old guy says that you have to have a fear of death, or you have nothing help you beyond the point of reason. to paraphrase, "how can you fight beyond what you can, how can persevere beyond what is possible without a fear of death, because without the fear of death, you have nothing to fight for"

Thank you. You said it in the way I was trying to say it but failed miserably.

[Mr. Plow]

lol. You think your tan line is bad.....

[JD10367]

The thing that I find the hardest to fathom isn't necessarily just the "escape" portion, but the whole bomb idea. It has a six-mile radius (which they state clearly). Judging from the camera long-shots, the Batplane is around five miles off shore at the least, given the distance off shore that we see the final explosion. Since the edge of the explosion is nowhere near Gotham, extrapolate at least another three miles (to the center of the blast). So he had to fly at least 8 miles off shore. IIRC he takes the bomb with about 2:00 to go on the clock. (That's a rough guess. Even though I've seen it 13 times I've had two days off so I'll have to refresh my memory on it.) He spends some time getting it out of the tunnel, blowing up the building, and flying over JGL's head. That probably takes another 30 seconds, but for the sake of leniency let's say it doesn't, and give him the full 2 minutes. To go 2 minutes in 8 miles means you have to be going 240 miles an hour. Under no circumstances in the film--including the speed at which he started leaving Gotham--does that Batplane look like it goes 240 miles an hour. Never mind how Bruce Wayne lived, how did Gotham?