Better Call Saul

[rico]

As I am sure many of y'all already know, a spinoff of "Breaking Bad" titled "Better Call Saul" will be airing in 2014. This is going to be a prequel to Breaking Bad and will be based on the character of Saul Goodman from "Breaking Bad."

I, for one, will be watching. I'm sure the majority of all of you other "Breaking Bad" fans will be as well. Might as well get the discussion going sooner rather than later.

So... what are your hopes, expectations and/or concerns with the show? Here are some of mine:

Hopes: I hope to see Saul do his thing in the courtroom. I hope to see strong, unique supporting characters. I hope to see Breaking Bad foreshadowing. I hope he has an intriguing paralegal and/or assistant. I hope to see Breaking Bad characters such as Fring, Mike, etc...whoever. I hope the show kicks ass.

Expectations: I don't expect it to be as good as "Breaking Bad" (because nothing else is, really), but I expect it to be good since Vince Gilligan is writing. I somewhat expect it to have an even balance of comedy and drama...since Saul undeniably provides a substantial amount of comedic relief in "Breaking Bad." I expect to see "courtroom Saul." I expect the "Breaking Bad" references and character cameos to be less than what I hope. If it isn't even a fraction as good as "Breaking Bad," I expect it to be better than 95% of everything else on TV, since there is some shitty shit on TV these days.

Concerns: I'd be a liar if I were to say that I didn't think this show has potential of flopping and certainly failing to meet the presumed high expectations of the audience. Don't get me wrong, I think it will be good... but I think it COULD suck if not executed properly. My main concern is Saul ultimately proving himself to be a "little dab will do ya" type of character, which would lead to a show centered around his character not working out. I am hoping that the character of Saul will not be so over-used and constantly over the top, that he becomes annoying to me, thus ruining his character for me altogether... Not saying I think this will be how it goes down...just saying I think there is a CHANCE of this being the case, which prompts me to believe that a strong supporting cast is VITAL in terms of the amount of success/quality this show will accumulate. All in all, I don't think VG will steer us in an unfortunate direction though...I think they'll pull it off.

Thoughts?

DISCUS!!!!

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by raybec 4

Kim's just as much a piece of shit as Jimmy. She wants to benefit from his misdeeds, she just doesn't want to know about them. That IMO means she is not only just as shady as Jimmy, she still believes she's not.

I wouldn't go quite that far. I see a kind of poetic justice that she got the account back though I don't agree with the means. Afterall, she did land the account for HHM and was still kept in the dog-house. Karma is a bitch.

But she may just evolve in the wrong direction, 'cuz if you remain connected you get corrupted. I don't think she started that way.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by raybec 4

Kim's just as much a piece of shit as Jimmy. She wants to benefit from his misdeeds, she just doesn't want to know about them. That IMO means she is not only just as shady as Jimmy, she still believes she's not.

I think she doesn't want to "know" about them, because she would then ethically have to report them. Right now, she still has plausible deniability, as she has no direct evidence that Jimmy did anything (thus her not wanting him to tell her anything directly).

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla

I think she doesn't want to "know" about them, because she would then ethically have to report them. Right now, she still has plausible deniability, as she has no direct evidence that Jimmy did anything (thus her not wanting him to tell her anything directly).

That's the point, plausible deniability is just as sleazy as the act itself. I am no boy scout but all the dirt I did, I did for my own benefit. If you buy a 60" TV out of the back of a van for a hundred bucks, do you assume any less responsibility because no one specifically told you it was stolen? I'd buy that TV 10 times out of 10 but I know it's stolen, so that's what it is.

[Anyong Bluth]

Originally Posted by MikeMaslowski

I saw it differently. It appeared he had one drink and didn't want to pay with a 100. It is not like him to make himself stand-out for any reason. I actually think that is what may get him busted. "That old gringo was buying rounds at the bar the same night of the rip off!"

If he got caught in the future - he'd be dead. Hector isn't going to let that slide.

[Zebedee DuBois]

From the previews it appears that Mike uses a sniper rifle to (I'm guessing) put a bullet in Hector's spine.

[notorious]

Originally Posted by Zebedee DuBois

Everyone evolves (or is it devolves) into another person.
Jimmy is heading towards Saul. Kim accepts some benefit from shady dealings. (Fabulous actor, by the way)
I don't recall Mike killing anyone in this series (I could be wrong) though he clearly has the skill. In BB he becomes a ruthless killing machine against the Cartel invasion.

Hats off to Gilligan and crew for once again crafting a very intelligent story.

Mike killed a shitload of people in BB.

He took out an entire warehouse of them in one episode.

[notorious]

Kim didn't know for sure until she put out the bait for Jimmy. If Jimmy is guilty, he moves to cover his tracks, if not he just falls asleep.

He took the bait big time.

They flashed over the two toothbrushes before Kim and Jimmy's conversation in bed. I bet that Jimmy gets back home and there is only one toothbrush. Hell, they might just open the next episode with the shot of a single toothbrush. Kim will leave him now that she knows that he ****ed over his brother.

[notorious]

This show is ****ing amazing. Just phenomenal.

[Anyong Bluth]

Originally Posted by notorious

Kim didn't know for sure until she put out the bait for Jimmy. If Jimmy is guilty, he moves to cover his tracks, if not he just falls asleep.

He took the bait big time.

They flashed over the two toothbrushes before Kim and Jimmy's conversation in bed. I bet that Jimmy gets back home and there is only one toothbrush. Hell, they might just open the next episode with the shot of a single toothbrush. Kim will leave him now that she knows that he ****ed over his brother.

Pretty sure she already knew and was warning him that Chuck wouldn't let it rest and he had better be 200% certain every possible loose end was tied up.

No half measures.

Chuck is so full of himself, the thought of switching 2 numbers in a stack of documents is less plausible than his immediate suspicion of Jimmy.

Yeah, Jimmy did do it, but that's a warped mentality to reach that conclusion with ZERO corroborating evidence



About the only positive came when Chuck pointed out that he did it because it was for her.

In the twisted nature of Jimmy's world, it's a show of loyalty.
Something that Jimmy had fought for from Chuck and all Chuck wanted to do was rub his nose in it.

Chuck forced Jimmy to make a choice of allegiance.

Kim trumped Chuck.

You'll see why Jimmy and Mike end up making a great team.

Jimmy is an idea guy who is quick on his feet and a smooth talker.

Mike is methodical, precise in detail, and studied in covering his ass and anticipation of where you can get tripped up.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Originally Posted by Anyong Bluth

Pretty sure she already knew and was warning him that Chuck wouldn't let it rest and he had better be 200% certain every possible loose end was tied up.

I agree Kim knew. It wasn't bait. She was making Jimmy aware that Chuck wouldn't rest until he found evidence.

[Zebedee DuBois]

Originally Posted by notorious

Mike killed a shitload of people in BB.

He took out an entire warehouse of them in one episode.

Yes, that was what I was trying to say. in 'Saul' he is not a killing machine, but has become one in BB. Somewhere in the Saul series he lets go of the notion of not being a killer. Now he is still a half measure guy; in BB he goes the full measure.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Anyong Bluth

Chuck is so full of himself, the thought of switching 2 numbers in a stack of documents is less plausible than his immediate suspicion of Jimmy.

Yeah, Jimmy did do it, but that's a warped mentality to reach that conclusion with ZERO corroborating evidence

"Sure, Chuck was right about Jimmy being a slimy-ass liar and a fraud based on their shared history....but what an asshole"!

#TeamChuck

And for the record, his evidence wouldn't be a single inversion, it would be the fact that he looked at at least 8 pages that all had the same number and even created a factual connection to hammer the number on that paper into his mind. He wouldn't have inverted the number on several different documents; all of the paperwork in his file contained that number and if it were just a simple vapor-lock, reviewing all of those papers in concert would've eventually straightened him out.

That's actually lawyer training (and probably basic memory skills); create a factual link for minute facts and you'll remember the facts well. His Magna Carta connection would've hammered that into his mind just as mnemonics are invariably used to memorize elements of crimes, defenses, etc...

Chuck's not just flying off here; he knows his own training, he used it and he knows what he had was manipulated. The Magna Carta thing is easily overlooked but it's actually the key point; he knows to use memory keys and mnemonics; he used one and it was never corrected. That's how he can be absolutely sure that what he had was altered.

Once again, Chuck is spot-on right because A) he's damn good at what he does and B) Jimmy's a crook and yet somehow you folks use it as ammunition against him. Same old tale every week with the pitchfork crowd...

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Great Expectations

You have some good points in playing the devil's advocate on this, it just seems like there is something deeply personal to you in it.

Jimmy has a better heart than Chuck, but Chuck has better/more defined morals. Which brother is worse? In the world that we get to see I'd say that Chuck is worse. While it might be illegal to solicit the signatures from the elderly in the lawsuit, Jimmy is only trying to stick it to the man who clearly deserves it. And while it might be perfectly legal to risk death per his condition to keep their client, Chuck is only trying to keep his brother from being successful, who based on what I've seen in the show deserves to be able to find success.

Honestly, it's not personal experience that does it - it's professional experience.

My firms not silk-stocking but we've had extremely similar situations. Senior Partners that are slipping, family members with JDs that don't have the chops for the job, in-house politicking for partnerships, etc... I'm kinda uniquely qualified for this one so I'm going to play devil's advocate wherever I can.

And I've had my ass waxed by an old attorney that looks like he may have lost his fastball a time or two. I generally respect the hell out of the guys that have put in the grind in this game, especially the ones that can build something from nothing like Chuck appears to have done. It's a tougher gig than it seems sometimes and if you can make it out the other side with your health and a comfortable retirement, you've done something well.

This show and Mad Men are the only two shows I've ever seen where I feel there's a direct proxy in that show for me. It's why I'm probably the only person in the world that ever loved Pete Campbell; I'm honest enough with myself to know that there's a LOT of Pete to my personality. In Chuck I see the guy that I'd really really LIKE to be some day.

So I put myself in his shoes and view pretty much everything he does from a strictly professional standpoint. And from that standpoint, there's an excellent explanation for every action he's taken as well as ample support that the guy is just outstanding at reading people and doing his job.

So #CHUCKSTRONG!Teamchuck

[Fire Me Boy!]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Honestly, it's not personal experience that does it - it's professional experience.

My firms not silk-stocking but we've had extremely similar situations. Senior Partners that are slipping, family members with JDs that don't have the chops for the job, in-house politicking for partnerships, etc... I'm kinda uniquely qualified for this one so I'm going to play devil's advocate wherever I can.

And I've had my ass waxed by an old attorney that looks like he may have lost his fastball a time or two. I generally respect the hell out of the guys that have put in the grind in this game, especially the ones that can build something from nothing like Chuck appears to have done. It's a tougher gig than it seems sometimes and if you can make it out the other side with your health and a comfortable retirement, you've done something well.

This show and Mad Men are the only two shows I've ever seen where I feel there's a direct proxy in that show for me. It's why I'm probably the only person in the world that ever loved Pete Campbell; I'm honest enough with myself to know that there's a LOT of Pete to my personality. In Chuck I see the guy that I'd really really LIKE to be some day.

So I put myself in his shoes and view pretty much everything he does from a strictly professional standpoint. And from that standpoint, there's an excellent explanation for every action he's taken as well as ample support that the guy is just outstanding at reading people and doing his job.

So #CHUCKSTRONG!Teamchuck

Kind of off topic: Who do you bill for your time on CP?

[frankotank]

Originally Posted by Anyong Bluth

Kim at least understands there's 2 sides to the story between Chuck and Jimmy.

Jimmy didn't kill Chuck, but I know what ya mean. Jimmy will of course feel guilty, even though Chuck lost it. He saw red, and Ernie kept telling him over and over, and Chuck kept pressing at his own peril.

"Slippin'" Jimmy might cut corners, and Chuck is ruthlessly callous- not some virtuous individual.

Interesting foreshadowing with telling Chuck he needed to calm down, put a cool washcloth on his head, and lay down at the house.

Of course, Chuck's is likely not dead? Otherwise, you'd think they'd show a bit more urgency to call 911 ?

Poor Mike. He was so happy he bought the bar a round. Then he finds out the good Samaritan got shot in the face and buried in the desert. Completely soiled his caper and turned his score into blood money. Also, it puts Mike back on tracking Hector's stink.

You see it is all about unexpected consequences for both guys.
For now, they both have an emotional response to their actions' unintended consequences, but at some point they gravitate towards detachment from that collateral damage.

he took a half measure
bet that's the last time. no more half measures.

per previews....looks like he offs the dude