Draft Need - Defensive End

Chiefnj2 · 02-23-2015, 10:50 AM

I can't help but think that part of KC's problems with run defense, wasn't limited to ILB. What about the loss of Jackson and DeVito as run stoppers? Are you happy with the current Ends? If you think it needs to be upgraded, which round and which player(s)?

Nightfyre · 02-23-2015, 11:05 AM

You've got Bailey and Walker and Howard, all of whom played adequately. You can sign Vickerson to a relatively friendly deal as well and then you have some depth. If I was going to look at someone to step in and upgrade the defensive line, it would have to be Jordan Phillips from Oklahoma or Danny Shelton of Washington. Those boys are freaks at NT and allow you to bring in a ton of beef along the line if you play them and bump Poe to DE. Additionally, I like the idea of bringing in Terrance Knighton to spell Poe or play in certain packages with Poe.

**RealSNR** · 02-23-2015, 11:28 AM

Re-sign Vickerson.

Problem solved.

Bailey's done a lot to improve his 1-gapping on passing downs, and he's going to continue to get better as a run defender. Howard is already an adequate run-stopper (at least as good as Jackson ever was). No clue what the Chiefs' plans for Vance Walker are. Catapano is coming back, so eh, you never know.

I really wouldn't bother investing anything more than a 4th or 5th rounder on the position. Which means Dorsey, of course, will go DE in the 1st round.

Chief Roundup · 02-23-2015, 11:47 AM

If the DL was part of the problem against the run then you can't be happy bringing back the same group.
Maybe some improved play from the ILB position as well as some more experience for the current group can help, but is it enough?
We have seen that our last 2 years of 1st rounds have been to replace contracts as well as players. If they continue on that trend NT could very well be on their radar to replace Poe who will command big money.

Nightfyre · 02-23-2015, 11:54 AM

The DL kept the linebackers clean. The ILBs were just awful.

**RealSNR** · 02-23-2015, 11:55 AM

I know the Jets under Ryan rarely had problems stopping the run. They had more talent, but how was their defensive line to ours comparatively?

It would seem to me that the Chiefs have had a tougher time adjusting to the new 1-gap. Bitch about Romeo's defensive scheme all you want, (I know I have) but the 2-gap we ran didn't give us all that many problems ever, and that was with some pretty shitty players (2009-2011 era Jackson and Ron ****ing Edwards at NT, most prominently).

Not saying we should switch back, but logically it makes sense that the immediate problems a team might have in that transition involve the run defense. In the 1-gap, your guys are looking to beat their blocker instead of letting the play develop a bit and then going where you will be most effective. If you have players that struggle in redirection, some RBs will occasionally squirt through. So then is the key to getting a Rex Ryan-level 1-gap defense in the linebackers? Do we need those guys to be better? I would point to DJ's injury, but we had problems the year before as well.

ct · 02-23-2015, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

Re-sign Vickerson.

Problem solved.

Bailey's done a lot to improve his 1-gapping on passing downs, and he's going to continue to get better as a run defender. Howard is already an adequate run-stopper (at least as good as Jackson ever was). No clue what the Chiefs' plans for Vance Walker are. Catapano is coming back, so eh, you never know.

I really wouldn't bother investing anything more than a 4th or 5th rounder on the position. Which means Dorsey, of course, will go DE in the 1st round.

Just wondering, how long does it take a DLman to 'develop' into a solid run defender? i like Bailey, but just askin the Q.

Hoover · 02-23-2015, 04:11 PM

I like Howard and Bailey. Lunch pail kind of guys are what you need in the 3-4. If we keep DeVito I think we will have excellent depth at the position.

Just Passin' By · 02-23-2015, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

I know the Jets under Ryan rarely had problems stopping the run. They had more talent, but how was their defensive line to ours comparatively?

It would seem to me that the Chiefs have had a tougher time adjusting to the new 1-gap. Bitch about Romeo's defensive scheme all you want, (I know I have) but the 2-gap we ran didn't give us all that many problems ever, and that was with some pretty shitty players (2009-2011 era Jackson and Ron ****ing Edwards at NT, most prominently).

Not saying we should switch back, but logically it makes sense that the immediate problems a team might have in that transition involve the run defense. In the 1-gap, your guys are looking to beat their blocker instead of letting the play develop a bit and then going where you will be most effective. If you have players that struggle in redirection, some RBs will occasionally squirt through. So then is the key to getting a Rex Ryan-level 1-gap defense in the linebackers? Do we need those guys to be better? I would point to DJ's injury, but we had problems the year before as well.

The Jets defensive line is excellent. Poe's better than Harrison, but Richardson (especially) and Wilkerson are both great players. What Ryan liked to do was use that line as the base of his strength, and then overload the box. The QB and C wouldn't know who was coming and who was dropping back, which created significant problems. It played havoc with struggling OLs but, if the OL held up, it could lead to real problems for that defense in the post-Revis era, because the secondary and linebackers could really get exposed.

CleveSteve · 02-23-2015, 05:03 PM

Snacks is no slouch, either. They are three solid and Ellis is a good backup on the nose. They have some tough decisions this offseason.

Saccopoo · 02-23-2015, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre

The DL kept the linebackers clean. The ILBs were just awful.

This.

They were ****ing horrible.

I can't believe we ended up with the #7 ranked defense with that group (minus Berry).

Bob Sutton did an absolutely masterful job last year. Talk about chicken salad out of chicken shit...

Saccopoo · 02-23-2015, 08:24 PM

Besides, we were in the 425 so much last season that adding anything to what we already have + Catapano should be considered a draft day waste. You can't even consider the 425 sub-package a sub-package as we were in it more than the base 34.

Dante84 · 02-23-2015, 08:32 PM

Don't sleep on Catapano

Or his intestines

02-23-2015, 10:50 AM
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $7883688	Draft Need - Defensive End I can't help but think that part of KC's problems with run defense, wasn't limited to ILB. What about the loss of Jackson and DeVito as run stoppers? Are you happy with the current Ends? If you think it needs to be upgraded, which round and which player(s)?
Posts: 22,390

02-23-2015, 11:05 AM	#2
Nightfyre MVP Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Helena, MT Casino cash: $3658849	You've got Bailey and Walker and Howard, all of whom played adequately. You can sign Vickerson to a relatively friendly deal as well and then you have some depth. If I was going to look at someone to step in and upgrade the defensive line, it would have to be Jordan Phillips from Oklahoma or Danny Shelton of Washington. Those boys are freaks at NT and allow you to bring in a ton of beef along the line if you play them and bump Poe to DE. Additionally, I like the idea of bringing in Terrance Knighton to spell Poe or play in certain packages with Poe.
Posts: 18,544

02-23-2015, 11:47 AM	#4
Chief Roundup Admitted Planet Junky Join Date: Oct 2000 Casino cash: $2081627	If the DL was part of the problem against the run then you can't be happy bringing back the same group. Maybe some improved play from the ILB position as well as some more experience for the current group can help, but is it enough? We have seen that our last 2 years of 1st rounds have been to replace contracts as well as players. If they continue on that trend NT could very well be on their radar to replace Poe who will command big money. __________________ Fanaticism is nowhere. There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
Posts: 19,198

02-23-2015, 11:54 AM	#5
Nightfyre MVP Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Helena, MT Casino cash: $3658849	The DL kept the linebackers clean. The ILBs were just awful.
Posts: 18,544

02-23-2015, 04:11 PM	#8
Hoover Rufus Dawes Jr. Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $1678179	I like Howard and Bailey. Lunch pail kind of guys are what you need in the 3-4. If we keep DeVito I think we will have excellent depth at the position.
Posts: 17,347

02-23-2015, 05:03 PM	#10
CleveSteve Veteran Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Pflugerville, TX Casino cash: $10010636	Snacks is no slouch, either. They are three solid and Ellis is a good backup on the nose. They have some tough decisions this offseason.
Posts: 1,150

02-23-2015, 08:24 PM	#12
Saccopoo Kindness in words... Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Zion Casino cash: $10025483	Besides, we were in the 425 so much last season that adding anything to what we already have + Catapano should be considered a draft day waste. You can't even consider the 425 sub-package a sub-package as we were in it more than the base 34.
Posts: 15,450

02-23-2015, 08:32 PM	#13
Dante84 Tossed Salad & Scrambled Eggs Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: ATX & OPKS Casino cash: $1801996 VARSITY	Don't sleep on Catapano Or his intestines __________________ ..
Posts: 19,639