Cardinals ***Official 2015 STL Cardinals Thread*** - Page 97

**BigRedChief** · 09:44 PM

2011 World Series Championship
2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance.
2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship
2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance

Made the postseason 10 times in the last 14 seasons.
Only 1 losing season since 2000.
Reached the World Series 4 times since 2004 and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005.
Made the NLCS 9 times including the last 4 years 2011-2014
Three million attendance? Take it to the bank.
65 post season wins since 2004. 22+ wins more than any other team.

George Liquor · 05-25-2015, 06:15 PM

Thanks for picking us up Jhonny, I wasn't looking forward to another 15 inning abortion.

**BigRedChief** · 05-25-2015, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDj23

Thanks for picking us up Jhonny, I wasn't looking forward to another 15 inning abortion.

No shit. Had to blow Rosey for tomorrow just to get to extra innings.

DJ's left nut · 05-26-2015, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Also, we have fast guys, but we can't steal worth a shit

I can only assume this is in reference to Wong's militant refusal to actually steal a base over just getting himself thrown out?

3 SBs in 7 attempts? Take a couple of lessons or stop running, Kolten. And the dude that threw him out yesterday pretty much sucks at it. When you're getting thrown out but Tough Gosewitch (or whatever) then it's time to stop stealing bases for awhile.

Then again, Pete's 4 of 8 is only marginally better.

That sure starts to smell like a coaching issue, doesn't it? 7 SBs in 15 attempts by guys as fast as those two just reeks of awful technique.

O.city · 05-26-2015, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I can only assume this is in reference to Wong's militant refusal to actually steal a base over just getting himself thrown out?

3 SBs in 7 attempts? Take a couple of lessons or stop running, Kolten. And the dude that threw him out yesterday pretty much sucks at it. When you're getting thrown out but Tough Gosewitch (or whatever) then it's time to stop stealing bases for awhile.

Then again, Pete's 4 of 8 is only marginally better.

That sure starts to smell like a coaching issue, doesn't it? 7 SBs in 15 attempts by guys as fast as those two just reeks of awful technique.

They don't get very good jumps, which to me, is a coaching/experience issue.

I've always felt guys who were just fast aren't great basestealers because they rely on it to much and don't develop any instincts with it.

DJ's left nut · 05-26-2015, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

They don't get very good jumps, which to me, is a coaching/experience issue.

I've always felt guys who were just fast aren't great basestealers because they rely on it to much and don't develop any instincts with it.

I've never really watched their feet to see how they take off.

I wonder if the Cardinals coaching staff teaches the drop step? I honestly don't know exactly how I feel about it, apart from the fact that I don't do it; I was always taught a basic crossover step. Some coaches absolutely hate it, others think it's the most efficient way to build speed.

I'll have to watch next time to see what they do and how they use their upper half to fire out. It's counter-intuitive but it's true that your upper body can act as a serious drag on the first step or two if you're not aggressive enough with it.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 05-26-2015, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDj23

I'd say it was 50/50

It was closer to 75/25 Royals from my perspective.

We sat in dugout boxes about 70 feet up the third base line.

I noticed a few things:

*Kozma's bat speed is an order of magnitude less than any other Cardinal. It's much easier to judge that from the side than from head-on during the broadcast. It looks like he's pulling an oar through water.

*Contrastingly, everything Wong does is quick twitch. He got into positions to field balls on the infield before I could even whip my head to track the ball.

*Ventura was quite a bit more effective than Wacha in innings 2-5. The Royals hit a lot of balls hard, but they were often right at people. I actually missed the first four batters in the top of the first, after which Ventura retired 14 straight, so I was about ready to tap my arteries as a sacrifice.

*I can't believe Matheny actually had Carpenter swinging on a first pitch in a hit-and-run situation with Wong in the AB where he homered. That was a dog-cussing worthy moment.

*Escobar's barehanded attempt, although unsuccessful, was as good of a defensive play as I've ever seen in person.

*It's incredibly easy to tell the newness of Royals fans due to how they react to routine flyballs and overreact to every small hit.

*I do not believe there was any mold in the cheese vat they served our nachos in, so that's a plus.

O.city · 05-26-2015, 11:17 AM

They don't read pitchers very well.

I don't have a problem with running, but with Wong hitting leadoff and in front of carpenter, he needs to pick his spots

'Hamas' Jenkins · 05-26-2015, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

They don't read pitchers very well.

I don't have a problem with running, but with Wong hitting leadoff and in front of carpenter, he needs to pick his spots

With the way Carpenter works counts, it's a far less valuable skill than doing it in front of someone like Yadi, who still has good bat control, but doesn't walk and is a GIDP threat.

DJ's left nut · 05-26-2015, 12:09 PM

But Carpenter's also the perfect guy to run in front of.

Yadi swings at everything so unless he gets a take sign early in the count (when pitchers are often simply trying to get ahead and will give you your best pitch of the AB), he will end up spoiling the SB attempt.

If Wong were actually able to steal bags with some modicum of success, hitting ahead of a guy like Carpenter would give him an excellent opportunity to do so.

Then again, the best answer is still Holliday in the 2 hole, IMO. He has the best Z-Swing rate in baseball right now (an incredible 84%) and an above average O-Swing rate. If you're the pitcher and you want to give the catcher a good pitch to throw on, you're probably going go with the fastball and probably somewhere near the zone. This will either give Holliday a good chance to hit a strike (as he's been doing extremely well) or he'll lay off a ball and Wong will get the chance to swipe the bag that would keep him out of the DP that Holliday is so good at hitting into given his high GB rates.

And as Holliday's ISO has fallen, Carpenter's has increased. Carpenter's much more like a conventional #3 hitter than Holliday is these days.

If Wong is your leadoff guy and you're going to continue to give him the green light, I think having Holliday at 2 and Carpenter at 3 is the way to go. Holliday's BABIP is an unreasonably high .377 right now and pitchers are throwing him fewer strikes than he's ever seen. Holliday will either regress, or he'll need to start seeing more strikes. Putting him in the 2 hole behind Wong's SB threat and Carpenter's doubles pop will definitely increase the strikes he sees and if that happens, I think he'll be able to sustain what he's doing right now.

Pitchers would start working around Carpenter a little bit at that point, but with a 20% O-Swing rate...let 'em. He'd be in hitters counts all year.

DJ's left nut · 05-26-2015, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

*It's incredibly easy to tell the newness of Royals fans due to how they react to routine flyballs and overreact to every small hit.

You mean Holliday getting hit twice in 2 days didn't constitute the international incident that Cain getting hit near his knee was?

Royals fans...ugh...**** 'em. And the Royals as well, for that matter.

Remember when Rosenthal had a liner hit through the box on him then he proceeded to flip his shit and bark at batters, etc... like an angry toddler? Oh wait, that didn't happen. He just took the ball from the catcher and went about getting outs.

And I totally missed the part where Holliday got hit twice and the Cardinals 1st and 3b started standing up at the end of the dugout and yelling at the pitcher. Or when a reliever came in and started firing 100 mph fastballs at guys the next day when Holliday couldn't play because of the HBP.

Fans of the team and the players alike seem to believe that baseball was invented 3 years ago and don't seem to have any idea how to react to the most mundane of situations.

Marcellus · 05-26-2015, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

ok, I'm in, Heyward is awful

Its just that simple unfortunately.

George Liquor · 05-26-2015, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Its just that simple unfortunately.

Yeah, I'll co-sign on this as well.

I was, for some reason, stoked about the trade when it happened.

**BigRedChief** · 05-26-2015, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

They don't read pitchers very well.

I don't have a problem with running, but with Wong hitting leadoff and in front of carpenter, he needs to pick his spots

yep. He has the speed. Not sure what the issue is exactly but, you cant keep getting thrown put with Carp and Holliday coming up.

Marcellus · 05-26-2015, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDj23

Yeah, I'll co-sign on this as well.

I was, for some reason, stoked about the trade when it happened.

I wasn't sold on it but believed in that Cardinal's Magic that seems to make every trade work out well.

It was bound to end eventually.

Pasta Little Brioni · 05-26-2015, 04:44 PM

Black left handed Frenchy

12-11-2014, 08:45 PM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $2629627 VARSITY	*Official 2015 STL Cardinals Thread* 2011 World Series Championship 2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance. 2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship 2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance Made the postseason 10 times in the last 14 seasons. Only 1 losing season since 2000. Reached the World Series 4 times since 2004 and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005. Made the NLCS 9 times including the last 4 years 2011-2014 Three million attendance? Take it to the bank. 65 post season wins since 2004. 22+ wins more than any other team. Last edited by BigRedChief; 12-11-2014 at 09:44 PM..
Posts: 79,298

05-25-2015, 06:15 PM	#1441
George Liquor In my youth i pray to keep Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Clown World Casino cash: $2419850	Thanks for picking us up Jhonny, I wasn't looking forward to another 15 inning abortion.
Posts: 15,894

05-26-2015, 11:17 AM	#1447
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2324064	They don't read pitchers very well. I don't have a problem with running, but with Wong hitting leadoff and in front of carpenter, he needs to pick his spots
Posts: 81,576

05-26-2015, 12:09 PM	#1449
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $2489099	But Carpenter's also the perfect guy to run in front of. Yadi swings at everything so unless he gets a take sign early in the count (when pitchers are often simply trying to get ahead and will give you your best pitch of the AB), he will end up spoiling the SB attempt. If Wong were actually able to steal bags with some modicum of success, hitting ahead of a guy like Carpenter would give him an excellent opportunity to do so. Then again, the best answer is still Holliday in the 2 hole, IMO. He has the best Z-Swing rate in baseball right now (an incredible 84%) and an above average O-Swing rate. If you're the pitcher and you want to give the catcher a good pitch to throw on, you're probably going go with the fastball and probably somewhere near the zone. This will either give Holliday a good chance to hit a strike (as he's been doing extremely well) or he'll lay off a ball and Wong will get the chance to swipe the bag that would keep him out of the DP that Holliday is so good at hitting into given his high GB rates. And as Holliday's ISO has fallen, Carpenter's has increased. Carpenter's much more like a conventional #3 hitter than Holliday is these days. If Wong is your leadoff guy and you're going to continue to give him the green light, I think having Holliday at 2 and Carpenter at 3 is the way to go. Holliday's BABIP is an unreasonably high .377 right now and pitchers are throwing him fewer strikes than he's ever seen. Holliday will either regress, or he'll need to start seeing more strikes. Putting him in the 2 hole behind Wong's SB threat and Carpenter's doubles pop will definitely increase the strikes he sees and if that happens, I think he'll be able to sustain what he's doing right now. Pitchers would start working around Carpenter a little bit at that point, but with a 20% O-Swing rate...let 'em. He'd be in hitters counts all year. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 60,951

05-26-2015, 04:44 PM	#1455
Pasta Little Brioni Consuming CP souls Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: U.S.A. Casino cash: $3478880	Black left handed Frenchy __________________ **Official TFWdemB Trivia Commisioner**
Posts: 69,232