Computers My son is using to Bit Torrent - Page 8

Msmith · 10-20-2017, 07:48 PM

He was downloading some TV shows. Our ISP sent 34 emails within one hour to warn about the illegal download. I showed the messages to him. He said that it was his first time so he would stop. But what of the consequence? Should I contact our ISP about this?

**Ming the Merciless** · 10-23-2017, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

It's fair to say that absent piracy, some artists would make more money. It's not fair to say that piracy hurts all artists and it's not fair to assume every download (or even most of them) would be a purchase if not for piracy.

I never said the things in bold. Piracy hurts some artists...it steals money from them. To me , there's not that much of a difference between stealing money over the internet and stealing it out of someone's wallet. Money is money....

I don't really care if it is technically not the same, in the real world it is just money that would be there that isn't...and it is taking something that doesn't belong to you.

If a thief comes into my yard and takes something that isn't worth any money (which they have)...its still stealing....even if they would've never bought it...

To sit there and claim its not theft because they never would've bought the item is stupid. Tell that to a store where some douche bag goes in and steals something they can't afford and wouldn't have bought anyway...even though the store has insurance and isn't financially harmed...IT IS STILL STEALING. It is still wrong......if we cant agree on that , (taking something that doesn't belong to you is wrong) then no point in further conversation really.

**Ming the Merciless** · 10-23-2017, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lex Luthor

I take it back. You advice was awesome. I am humbled by your greatness.

Yes, there's nothing in between "horrible advice" and "awesome advice that means you are super great, therefore i am humbled and you must think youre smarter than me"..

that's how morons like you think: black and white, overly simplistic, no grey area., no room for differing opinion.....etc..

thanks for further demonstrating what an imbecile you are

patteeu · 10-23-2017, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pawnmower

I never said the things in bold. Piracy hurts some artists...it steals money from them. To me , there's not that much of a difference between stealing money over the internet and stealing it out of someone's wallet. Money is money....

I don't really care if it is technically not the same, in the real world it is just money that would be there that isn't...and it is taking something that doesn't belong to you.

If a thief comes into my yard and takes something that isn't worth any money (which they have)...its still stealing....even if they would've never bought it...

To sit there and claim its not theft because they never would've bought the item is stupid. Tell that to a store where some douche bag goes in and steals something they can't afford and wouldn't have bought anyway...even though the store has insurance and isn't financially harmed...IT IS STILL STEALING. It is still wrong......if we cant agree on that , (taking something that doesn't belong to you is wrong) then no point in further conversation really.

No, it's not the same as stealing. It's a different thing. It's not money that would be there that isn't. It's not sneaking into someone's yard and taking something.

It's illegal, but it's merely your opinion that it's wrong. It's certainly not wrong in the same way theft is wrong for reasons already mentioned.

**Ming the Merciless** · 10-23-2017, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

No, it's not the same as stealing. It's a different thing. It's not money that would be there that isn't. It's not sneaking into someone's yard and taking something.

its the stealing of the intellectual property....I'm not even talking about the money as I explained. They are stealing your art. The money aspect is secondary...yet still important. I think taking things that don't belong to you is wrong. Period. Even if there is no actual monetary damage....I know there are people out there who disagree....thats fine...its just my opinion.

The money is another issue because we will never know what percent of the people who steal music or movies would actually buy them legitimately. But even thought its not 100% (obviously) we probably can guess it is greater than zero, so as you said before it is hurting some artists, but not all. Just because it only hurts 'some' people doesnt make it OK or not wrong...its wrong. If you were an artist whose income relied on revenue from your hard work, you would think it was wrong also...I'm pretty sure.

**Ming the Merciless** · 10-23-2017, 01:36 PM

By the way, everyone has done things that are wrong...Speeding , driving after a drink or 2, not reporting taxes properly, downloading stuff illegally etc...I'm not here to enforce some crazy perfectionist viewpoint where it is expected no one do anything wrong...

I'm just stating a basic fact that taking things that don't belong to you is wrong.(even if it doesnt cause them any immediate financial loss)..to pretend that it isn't seems a little crazy to me

patteeu · 10-23-2017, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pawnmower

its the stealing of the intellectual property....I'm not even talking about the money as I explained. They are stealing your art. The money aspect is secondary...yet still important. I think taking things that don't belong to you is wrong. Period. Even if there is no actual monetary damage....I know there are people out there who disagree....thats fine...its just my opinion.

The money is another issue because we will never know what percent of the people who steal music or movies would actually buy them legitimately. But even thought its not 100% (obviously) we probably can guess it is greater than zero, so as you said before it is hurting some artists, but not all. Just because it only hurts 'some' people doesnt make it OK or not wrong...its wrong. If you were an artist whose income relied on revenue from your hard work, you would think it was wrong also...I'm pretty sure.

I understand what you're saying. You're saying it's the same as stealing. I'm saying it's not. You're saying it's inherently wrong (as opposed to wrong simply because it's illegal). I'm saying it's not. We both agree that it's illegal.

**Ming the Merciless** · 10-23-2017, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

I understand what you're saying. You're saying it's the same as stealing. I'm saying it's not. You're saying it's inherently wrong (as opposed to wrong simply because it's illegal). I'm saying it's not. We both agree that it's illegal.

yeah that about sums it up, although the act is not the 'same' as stealing a physical item technically, as you are just stealing a digital item or image or video...but the wrongness is the same so saying its 'the same' as stealing is probably an oversimplification by me...but basically yes

patteeu · 10-23-2017, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pawnmower

yeah that about sums it up, although the act is not the 'same' as stealing a physical item technically, as you are just ~~stealing~~ copying a digital item or image or video...but the wrongness is the same so saying its 'the same' as stealing is probably an oversimplification by me...but basically yes

No, the wrongness is not the same and it's not a mere technicality.

I thought you said we didn't have any more to talk about if we couldn't agree?

MTG#10 · 10-23-2017, 04:34 PM

Its only stealing if you would have purchased it anyway. If you wouldn't have, the creator is suffering no monetary loss.

vailpass · 10-23-2017, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTG#10

Its only stealing if you would have purchased it anyway. If you wouldn't have, the creator is suffering no monetary loss.

Wut?

**Ming the Merciless** · 10-23-2017, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTG#10

Its only stealing if you would have purchased it anyway.

thats not true

thats what i disagree with...

for example...ive had lots of people take things from me they never would have purchased that are worthless....

rocks out of my front yard
garbage can that belongs to the garbage company
data...i have had account information stolen like equifax, target credit info...etc...they never made any money with it..but still 'stolen'

**Ming the Merciless** · 10-23-2017, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

I thought you said we didn't have any more to talk about if we couldn't agree?

good point., so if youre saying taking images, movies and art from artists without their consent is OK, and in your own words if harming "some" artists is ok, and not wrong, then yes I disagree and theres nothing to talk about

MTG#10 · 10-23-2017, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vailpass

Wut?

A lot of people download movies and games to try them out first, then if they like them they purchase them.

Then other people download shit they never had any intentions of purchasing anyway.

In these cases the people creating the work that was downloaded suffer no financial loss of sale.

**Ming the Merciless** · 10-23-2017, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTG#10

A lot of people download movies and games to try them out first, then if they like them they purchase them.

Then other people download shit they never had any intentions of purchasing anyway.

In these cases the people creating the work that was downloaded suffer no financial loss of sale.

youre forgetting about a (not small) segment that downloads things that WOULD have bought them or download the item and never buys it, even though they like it

unless youre sitting here telling me 100% of the people that download movies, music, and video games and software......ALWAYS buy the item when they download it and use it / like it or would NEVER buy the item anyway if it wasnt so easy to steal

lets at least be honest here

the number of people who download stuff that wouldve bought it is not zero

patteeu · 10-23-2017, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

I thought you said we didn't have any more to talk about if we couldn't agree?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pawnmower

good point., so if youre saying taking images, movies and art from artists without their consent is OK, and in your own words if harming "some" artists is ok, and not wrong, then yes I disagree and theres nothing to talk about

But you just can't stop.

10-20-2017, 07:48 PM
Msmith Veteran Join Date: Jan 2004 Casino cash: $8828035	My son is using to Bit Torrent He was downloading some TV shows. Our ISP sent 34 emails within one hour to warn about the illegal download. I showed the messages to him. He said that it was his first time so he would stop. But what of the consequence? Should I contact our ISP about this?
Posts: 2,015

10-23-2017, 01:36 PM	#110
Ming the Merciless Emporer of Mongo Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Milky Way Casino cash: $1587556	By the way, everyone has done things that are wrong...Speeding , driving after a drink or 2, not reporting taxes properly, downloading stuff illegally etc...I'm not here to enforce some crazy perfectionist viewpoint where it is expected no one do anything wrong... I'm just stating a basic fact that taking things that don't belong to you is wrong.(even if it doesnt cause them any immediate financial loss)..to pretend that it isn't seems a little crazy to me __________________ ---- 2018 Adopt-A-Chief : Chris Conley 2017 Adopt-A-Chief : FRANK ZOMBO Click here-->*The Holy Chiefsplanet Lexicon **
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10-23-2017, 04:34 PM	#114
MTG#10 Mammoth penis Join Date: May 2006 Location: Springfield Casino cash: $7264386	Its only stealing if you would have purchased it anyway. If you wouldn't have, the creator is suffering no monetary loss.
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