As a QB prospect coming out of college, Geno Smith is greater than...?

[RealSNR]

Poll forthcoming.

Remember, we're talking about these players as prospects. I don't care what has happened to Jay Cutler or Brady Quinn or Aaron Rodgers. If you think those QBs had more to work with as potential pros, then check them off.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by ayleswbj

Really how can you say this? do YOu have insight to all the GMs in the NFL. And you spend your time posting on the message board. how do you know if he wouldnt have gone to another team. The broncos chose him because mcdaniels thought he was a winner and a great prospect he could work with. IT had nothing to do with all the picks. Are you actually saying that an NFL gm and coach said " hey we have lots of picks , so lets go an waist our 1st rounder on someone we think is a terrible project!" do you see how stupid this sounds now. And yes he is not a good pro, but this is not the discussion. It is about who is a good prospect because of there college career and what they have shown since. I think we dont have to argue he had a great college career, and had a much better combine than people thought. Which is why coaches an organizations thought they could work with him. Oh also dont forget he has has many playoffs wins as the Chiefs do in the past 19 seasons

Are you seriously making the Ken Dorsey argument?

[ayleswbj]

Originally Posted by aturnis

What exactly do you see lacking in Geno's game?

NFL arm? Check
Reads defenses? Check
Decision making? Check
Accuracy? Check
Pocket presence? Check
Ability to run? Check
Etc...

Excuse me,Reads defenses? He played in a true spread predicated on going to the first read. This is something everyone in the footballworld knows. Which is why there is all the uproar about him being in such a weak class. Second are you out of your mind , ability to run? Where are you getting this, when has geno smith ever shown his ability to run in a game? His ENTIRE ENTIRE ENTIRE college career he totald 370 rushing yards. Pleas go on about his running and rushing ability. Accuracy in the spread, can we agree that is a PUSH. Who knows how accurate he really is. All the spread QBs are accurate, for instance guess who was also really really accurate in college. TIM TEBOW!! NFL arm yes ect ect

[keg in kc]

"Spread QB" stopped being a draft detrimental about 5 years ago.

[Bowser]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

"Spread QB" stopped being a draft detrimental about 5 years ago.

Maybe that Brady or ROdgers guy will figure out how to properly run a spread offense sometime soon.*











*patiently waiting for the inevitable tarded YOU THINK GENO IS AS GOOD AS BRADY OR RODGERS comment

[ayleswbj]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

"Spread QB" stopped being a draft detrimental about 5 years ago.

Did it really? ask Pat White, Tim Tebow, Case Keenum, Blaine Gabbert, Kevin Kolb, Sam Bradford, Grahm Harrell, Jake Locker, Alex Smith has had a tough time as well. He was one of the best spread QBs to play. The list goes on buddy, way way way more failures than success. not even close

[Messier]

Originally Posted by B14ckmon

Of course.

Also, not to get churchy, but don't throw around how "intelligent" people have the god scam figured out. I know a lot if extremely smart people, smarter than you most likely, that are Christian, and I also know several stupid atheists.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by ayleswbj

Did it really? ask Pat White, Tim Tebow, Case Keenum, Blaine Gabbert, Kevin Kolb, Sam Bradford, Grahm Harrell, Jake Locker, Alex Smith has had a tough time as well. He was one of the best spread QBs to play. The list goes on buddy, way way way more failures than success. not even close

You're missing the point. Nearly every program in college utilizes the spread. Many if not most NFL teams have adapted their offenses to include spread elements. You aren't going to find many college QBs who haven't run the spread, and teams don't shy away from drafting spread QBs anymore. You mentioned several examples supporting that.

[Mr. Laz]

Someone better put SNR on suicide watch on draft day.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

Someone better put SNR on suicide watch on draft day.

Why? I know the Chiefs aren't drafting Geno.

[RealSNR]

I'm pretty shocked by the Matt Ryan numbers. That should be a lot higher.

Matt Ryan was considered to be the best super shitty QB prospect in a super shitty draft for super shitty QB prospects. What 2013 is considered to be today. People apparently don't remember the verbal flaying that was done to Matt Ryan by the ESPN crew. They thought the Falcons made a shit pick.

[Brock]

Originally Posted by ayleswbj

Did it really? ask Pat White, Tim Tebow, Case Keenum, Blaine Gabbert, Kevin Kolb, Sam Bradford, Grahm Harrell, Jake Locker, Alex Smith has had a tough time as well. He was one of the best spread QBs to play. The list goes on buddy, way way way more failures than success. not even close

Way more failures than success, so it's exactly the same as every other kind of quarterback, huh?

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Brock

Way more failures than success, so it's exactly the same as every other kind of quarterback, huh?

Stay away from USC QBs. Way more failures than successes going on over there.

[B14ckmon]

Originally Posted by SNR

I'm pretty shocked by the Matt Ryan numbers. That should be a lot higher.

Matt Ryan was considered to be the best super shitty QB prospect in a super shitty draft for super shitty QB prospects. What 2013 is considered to be today. People apparently don't remember the verbal flaying that was done to Matt Ryan by the ESPN crew. They thought the Falcons made a shit pick.

Interesting. I wonder where the head of scouting for the Falcons at the time that personally advised Dimitroff to take Ryan, is now.

Oh shit, he's the GM of the Jacksonville Jaguars!

[ayleswbj]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

You're missing the point. Nearly every program in college utilizes the spread. Many if not most NFL teams have adapted their offenses to include spread elements. You aren't going to find many college QBs who haven't run the spread, and teams don't shy away from drafting spread QBs anymore. You mentioned several examples supporting that.

No no no , you just said it best. Colleges implement ELEMENTS, not true spread. which Geno played in along with many others. Teams absolutely shy away from drafting these guys high. That's why guys like Keenum, Harrell and so on don't get drafted or go in the 6th.


Take a look at this year's premier NFL quarterbacks: Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Matthew Stafford and Eli Manning. They all share two things in common. Each has a significant history of working under center -- and for each, his arm separates him, not his legs.

The NFL is a quarterback-driven league, with smart signal-callers who win by throwing the ball accurately and on time. But at the college and high school levels, there's more of a willingness to accept a less-than-ideal passer who is an extraordinary athlete.

Prior to the explosion of the spread offense in the past 10-15 years, the core foundation of the quarterback position was learning to play under center. You dropped back from under center, read coverages from under center, made pre-snap assessments from under center. Everything you learned was about footwork, timing and reading defenses on the move.

Now, almost all you see in high school and college is the spread formation, so quarterbacks lack repetitions under center, which has led to a lack of fundamentals at the position. Every year I go out to camps and combines and see kids with multiple BCS offers who struggle to take a five-step drop, hit their fifth step and get the ball out. It can be staggering how many can't do it.

The reason for this is that from a coach's perspective, your mindset is to force defenses to have to defend your quarterback's ability to run. You implement some option principles into that mentality and it really puts a lot of strain on the defense. In high school, coaches take their best player and put him in the Wildcat formation, and if he has any promise as a passer he is going to get a long look from college coaches.

Pro-style quarterbacks who thrive in college -- like Matt Barkley and Andrew Luck -- are few and far between. There are 120 FBS teams, and it's hard to name more than five that have a base offense that includes two running backs and a tight end (the classic pro-style formation). That formation has a heavy emphasis on a power running game, and the quarterback's purpose is to win with his arm and his mind, which is essentially how the game is played at the NFL level. In these types of schemes, you will find the quarterback asked to throw less frequently but to make more challenging throws when he does drop back. Rather than throwing bubble screens or quick routes, the pro-style QB attacks the short, intermediate and deep areas of the field.

One of the reasons we've seen such a huge spike in completion percentages in college football is because of the short, controlled passing game that features numerous throws near the line of scrimmage. Think Oregon. So a pro-style QB like Andrew Luck completing 70 percent of his passes is much more impressive to NFL evaluators than a spread QB with a similar completion percentage.

However, you are starting to see guys like Cam Newton and Tim Tebow, who came from the spread in college, begin to enjoy success in the NFL. Their pro teams were willing to break the mold of conventional quarterback play to allow their more athletic quarterbacks to make plays with their legs. Newton and Tebow are the freakiest of freak athletes, however, so it's unlikely other teams will be able to duplicate their success in a league where linebackers and defensive ends are running 4.5-second 40s.

The key for NFL coaches and scouts when evaluating spread quarterbacks is to figure out how intricate their spread offense was. How complex were the protections and blitz-pickup principles? What were they asked to do at the line of scrimmage? Could they hit their intermediate and deep passes when those plays were called? That is why Baylor QB Robert Griffin III has become such a hot commodity. While he plays in a variation of the spread, he can also make all the intermediate throws and is the best deep-ball thrower in college football.

Behind closed doors, there are probably a lot of offensive coaches in the NFL who would love to have the dynamic threat of a player like Cam Newton at quarterback. There are some creative things you can do with players like that. But in a league where elite quarterback play is at a premium, most coaches are going to be fearful of jeopardizing the health of the most important player on their roster. The risk of injury is high for quarterbacks to begin with, never mind when you ask him to take even more direct shots as a runner.

The bottom line is this: While NFL quarterbacks are becoming more and more athletic, we are a long way from seeing a college-style spread offense dominate at the pro level.

Not my words, just good insight to the failures of many spread QBs

[ayleswbj]

Originally Posted by Brock

Way more failures than success, so it's exactly the same as every other kind of quarterback, huh?

Are you seriously gonna argue that these gimmick guys have a better success rate than pro-style QBs?