Is a defensive 4-3 change coming to KC?

[WhiteWhale]

It would at least explain the 290 pound outside linebackers.

[Shoes]

The 4-3/3-4 conversation I don't think is as big of a deal as it used to be. The NFL is dominated by sub packages and the most valuable defensive players tend to be guys who can stay on the field and be successful against multiple personnel. The "base" defense that I am more interested in is who is on the field against 3 WR sets (most commonly used personnel package by offenses these days).

That's why I am so high on a guy like O'Daniel- should be a defender who isn't overwhelmed against the run in 3 WR sets, but matches up well against RB's and TE's.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by Shoes

The 4-3/3-4 conversation I don't think is as big of a deal as it used to be. The NFL is dominated by sub packages and the most valuable defensive players tend to be guys who can stay on the field and be successful against multiple personnel. The "base" defense that I am more interested in is who is on the field against 3 WR sets (most commonly used personnel package by offenses these days).

That's why I am so high on a guy like O'Daniel- should be a defender who isn't overwhelmed against the run in 3 WR sets, but matches up well against RB's and TE's.

While most teams run a 3-4, they also employ 4-3 looks, even if it's not their base.

[oldman]

I think if we go to more of a hybrid, Hitchens makes more sense than Ragland. I don't see any problem having Kpass as a down lineman (sort of) with Nnadi and Jones on the inside and rotate Speaks and Houston. That way we can get rid of Ford. Sure, Ford is having a good season, but don't they all in a contract year. He's injured way too much. to tie up a lot of money in him. Explain to me how he got hurt enough to be iffy before he got tossed last week. We have to start getting more snaps for O'D and Niemann as well.

[ChiefsFanatic]

If anyone has had the unfortunate mishap of reading one of my posts, you know that I hate Bob Sutton. I think he is too rigid in his scheme, and doesn't put players in a position to succeed by scheming to their strengths.

But, having said that, it doesn't matter what defense we run, 3-4 or a 4-3, because our linebackers, outside of Ford, are just too damn slow.

Not that Sutton could put fast linebackers in a position to succeed, but at least fast linebackers could potentially negate Sutton's suckyness.

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[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by ChiefsFanatic

If anyone has had the unfortunate mishap of reading one of my posts, you know that I hate Bob Sutton. I think he is too rigid in his scheme, and doesn't put players in a position to succeed by scheming to their strengths.

But, having said that, it doesn't matter what defense we run, 3-4 or a 4-3, because our linebackers, outside of Ford, are just too damn slow.

Not that Sutton could put fast linebackers in a position to succeed, but at least fast linebackers could potentially negate Sutton's suckyness.

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Yeah I mean it’s not like he fielded top 5 defenses two years in a row or anything when Houston and DJ were both healthy.

[ChiefsFanatic]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Yeah I mean it’s not like he fielded top 5 defenses two years in a row or anything when Houston and DJ were both healthy.

I know we have been having this disagreement, and I did respond with defensive rankings in response to you saying Sutton fielded the 3 best post-merger Chiefs defenses. And while I think I proved that wasn't true, but I also admitted that Sutton's rankings were much better than I remembered.

But I absolutely stand by my statement that Sutton doesn't adapt to the skills of his players. He is very rigid in his defensive concepts. Maybe it's the era in which he came up as a coach, or his time coaching a military team, but he is either unwilling or unable to change.

But, talking about speed at LB, DJ and Houston have never been fast. I know that I am not an NFL coach, but after years of watching all levels of football, I believe that slower linebackers can be protected a little more in a 4-3 defense, with true defensive tackles and defensive ends.

In a 4-3 a good defensive line can keep the offensive line from getting their hands on the second level, allowing slower linebackers to get to the ball carrier fairly unmolested. But we are playing a 3-4, and our slow linebackers seem to always have someone's hands, an offensive lineman or TE, on them and we continue to get gashed on run defense.

So, my statement saying that Sutton wouldn't know how to put fast linebackers in a position to win stands, because Sutton doesn't see fast, slow, or any other specific talent his players have or don't have. He sees LB, CB, SS, FS, DE, DT, etc. etc.

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[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by ChiefsFanatic

I know we have been having this disagreement, and I did respond with defensive rankings in response to you saying Sutton fielded the 3 best post-merger Chiefs defenses. And while I think I proved that wasn't true, but I also admitted that Sutton's rankings were much better than I remembered.

The problem with what you posted is that sandwiched in between 1995 and 1997 was 1996, in which the defense finished 11th in scoring defense and 18th in total yards.

From 2013 to 2016, the Chiefs finished 5th, 2nd, 3rd, and 7th in scoring. In 2013 and 2016, they were 24th in yards. So whether you take the period of 2013 to 2015 or the period from 2014 to 2016, those 3 years together are better than 1995-1997 because 1996 wasn't even top 10.

Forget "best 3-year stint", let's go 4 years. You can use 1994, in which they were 7th in scoring or you can use 1998, in which they were 22nd.

Bob's first 4 years here were the best of any DC since the AFL days. It's really not disputable. Marty's teams never put together back to back seasons of top 5 defense, ever.

Originally Posted by ChiefsFanatic

But I absolutely stand by my statement that Sutton doesn't adapt to the skills of his players. He is very rigid in his defensive concepts. Maybe it's the era in which he came up as a coach, or his time coaching a military team, but he is either unwilling or unable to change.

What does he need to change? When given the talent, they were a top 5 scoring defense in multiple years.

Originally Posted by ChiefsFanatic

So, my statement saying that Sutton wouldn't know how to put fast linebackers in a position to win stands, because Sutton doesn't see fast, slow, or any other specific talent his players have or don't have. He sees LB, CB, SS, FS, DE, DT, etc. etc.

Talk about semantics.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by ChiefsFanatic

But, talking about speed at LB, DJ and Houston have never been fast.

DJ ran a 4.5 and Houston ran a 4.6.

You are talking out your ass.

Our linebackers aren't even slow.

Hitchens and Ragland are 4.7 guys, which is fine for ILB. Ford is a freak.

The problem with this defense isn't speed. It's tackling and just general lack of coverage ability, and total shit at safety.

[OKchiefs]

I don't think it matters what we do. This draft class was so bad, Hitchens has been a bust of a signing, and our highest paid defensive players are all broken and/or will be leaving soon. There are very few building blocks on defense. The defense will likely be just as bad if not worse in 2019.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by OKchiefs

I don't think it matters what we do. This draft class was so bad, Hitchens has been a bust of a signing, and our highest paid defensive players are all broken and/or will be leaving soon. There are very few building blocks on defense. The defense will likely be just as bad if not worse in 2019.

Well....I mean you ARE an idiot.

[OKchiefs]

Originally Posted by The Pest

Well....I mean you ARE an idiot.

Thanks for the compliment. By the way, what does this comment say about a fool who can't debate without making ad hominem attacks? Are you too ignorant to debate the subject at hand without making personal attacks?

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by OKchiefs

Thanks for the compliment. By the way, what does this comment say about a fool who can't debate without making ad hominem attacks? Are you too ignorant to debate the subject at hand without making personal attacks?

No....I can debate and still call you a ****ing idiot. I just generally try and stay out of debates with posters like you. It literally goes nowhere. It's like debating Black Bob or Tiger.

[OKchiefs]

Originally Posted by The Pest

No....I can debate and still call you a ****ing idiot. I just generally try and stay out of debates with posters like you. It literally goes nowhere. It's like debating Black Bob or Tiger.

Again with the ad hominem. It's okay buddy, those with little intelligence or intellect just can't help themselves.

[Eleazar]

Originally Posted by OKchiefs

I don't think it matters what we do. This draft class was so bad, Hitchens has been a bust of a signing, and our highest paid defensive players are all broken and/or will be leaving soon. There are very few building blocks on defense. The defense will likely be just as bad if not worse in 2019.

This -

Unless they can begin drafting talent on defense it's not going to matter what they do.

We have exactly one impact player on defense who's young and in uniform every week. That's an issue and it's on Reid and Veach.