Costas: Redskins 'an insult, a slur'

[petegz28]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/b...edskins-101313

[Aries Walker]

Originally Posted by patteeu

You correctly predicted that it wouldn't be convincing to many of us (or at least to me).

For example, when the definition of a word says it's "often offensive" the implication is that it isn't always offensive. IMO, the next step is to look at the context of it's use to determine if this is one of the offensive times or not.

Most of the other bullet points are of the type that express one side of the story (groups that consider it offensive) without making any attempt to balance and compare it with the other side (groups that don't). If the test we want to use for trademarks that are "disparaging" is a lowest common denominator test, then that's adequate, but I don't think that's a good test to use.

Beyond that, it doesn't really answer the question. Most of the bullet points are just various interest groups expressing the "because I say it's so" argument. The first bullet point comes closest because it points out that interracial slurs are often based on real or perceived differences, especially skin color, but it doesn't make the case that all words that derive from these differences are slurs in all contexts.

But I give you credit for at least making a serious effort to provide an answer.

Well, thank you. I do try.

And yeah, the argument in the article is one-sided; it was what they used to (successfully) have it deemed disparaging. It is, however, the side of the argument that you (plural) were asking for. 1 and 2 show that it is offensive in scholarly and popular use, respectively, and 3 and 4 that it isn't used in movies or journalism any more for just that reason. The rest do, indeed, show that it is offensive because the Native Americans say it is.

And that "because I said so" argument does have weight here - not so much coming from a white suburban dork like me, but when it comes from Native Americans leadership for at least the last 42 years, it has to be listened to. All ethnic slurs come down to the way the term is received by the ethnicity being slurred, so if more than just one or two or ten object - when it is their ruling body, repeatedly and publicly and over and over again - maybe it's time to realize that "because they said so" is reason enough.

[SPATCH]

Originally Posted by patteeu

You mean the patent office.

You have a really negative and patronizing notion of American Indians.

Still a judicial process (one Native Americans didn't participate in forming) and REALLY?

You have a very dismissive view of Native Americans.

[loochy]

Originally Posted by theelusiveeightrop

Who has better hair: Costas or ChUNT?

bob dole.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by SPATCH

Still a judicial process (one Native Americans didn't participate in forming) and REALLY?

You have a very dismissive view of Native Americans.

I'm not the one suggesting that they're gunshy as an entire people about participating in governmental processes like everyone else does.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by -King-

How is Indian NOT an insult? THEY'RE NOT ****ING INDIANS!

[Beef Supreme]

Slurpee or casino?

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by -King-

Calling a group by their "skin color" isn't offensive? Go up to a group of black people and say, "Hey black skins, hows it going" and see what happens.

I wonder who came up with this? Offensive??

[ChiTown]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

Would make for a cool helmet logo.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by BigRichard

So would American Indian work?

Well, as we've learned, they're not "Indian(s)" either. Evidently the kick-ass pilgrims got that wrong but went with it anyway.

Perhaps Dan Snyder should just go with the most acurate name of "Savages" for his team and change the Logo to the something very close to the U.N.'s Logo...

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by -King-

How is Indian NOT an insult? THEY'RE NOT ****ING INDIANS!

Here's what one ChiefsPlanet member, who also happens to be an American Indian, thinks about the subject:

Originally Posted by oldandslow

You know one...And yes, American Indian is most correct. Everyone born in this country "Native American." Most Indians do not like the term.

I'd like to hear oldandslow's opinion of Washington's team name and whether he thinks it's being used in a disparaging manner.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by patteeu

No one is reducing anyone's humanity down to their skin color.

But since you think that's what's happening, do you remember this post by an obvious racist who reduced two people's humanity down to their skin color?

Ohh snap.

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by patteeu

Here's what one ChiefsPlanet member, who also happens to be an American Indian, thinks about the subject:



I'd like to hear oldandslow's opinion of Washington's team name and whether he thinks it's being used in a disparaging manner.

Iirc, he doesn't like it.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by notorious

I must be in the minority, because I wouldn't give a shit if they changed "Chiefs".


It might be a fresh beginning for this stale fart of a franchise.

I'm with you. At this point I'd not be upset for the point you make, AND so, as a nation, we can begin the process of forgetting the "Native American People", forgetting their preferences, and letting them fend for themselves (which means they'll just stay drunk 24x7), like we should have done right after the pilgrims kicked their no-fighting asses and completely conquered them. And they had home-field (home-tree in their case) advantage!

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by patteeu

Here's what one ChiefsPlanet member, who also happens to be an American Indian, thinks about the subject:



I'd like to hear oldandslow's opinion of Washington's team name and whether he thinks it's being used in a disparaging manner.

Hmmmm, is there a rule on how long ago make you "Native"? Post land-bridge hike, but pre-boat arrival? Or anybody born in "America" (North ot South I suppose...) and not overseas?

So I'm a Native American? If so, where the hell's my ****ing feather? Woo woo woo woo woo woo woo!!!!

[gblowfish]

I have not read thru this entire thread, but have mixed feelings about this issue.

I am an NFL history buff. The Washington team has the tradition of many years of being "The Redskins." I don't think it was meant to be an affront to Native Americans, like I don't think the Atlanta Braves or the Cleveland Indians is an affront. If anything, those cities hold these mascots in respect for the most part. But names should be respectful, not ethnic slurs.

"Redskin" is a bigoted term in modern times. Like if you called a team "The New York Hymies" or "The New Orleans Nig***s." So why not swing Washington in line with modern times? The Washington Bullets NBA team changed their name for the same basic reason.

In a poll in Washington, over 50% said if the name was to be changed, they'd like it to be the "Washington Pigskins." That would be pretty cool. The hogs are part of Washington team lore.

Anyway, I saw this short spot, and thought it was enlightening to see the issue from the side of those who are offended. Very well explained.