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View Poll Results: A-Rod; "Normal" HOF or "*"
PED don't matter, he paid the price, HOF! 18 26.47%
"*" 47 69.12%
Gaz made him do it! 0 0%
Who is A-Rod? 3 4.41%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-20-2015, 08:25 AM  
GloryDayz GloryDayz is offline
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A-Rod, HOF or "*"
After seeing that he got his 3000th hit I was dejected. Perhaps that's because I don't like the Yankees, perhaps it's because I don't think any of the hits in his PED years should count (so he's way behind 3000). No matter what, I just think it's a terrible message to send to kids/young players that PEDs will cost you a little something, but when all is said and done the league will act like it never happened.
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Old 06-20-2015, 01:23 PM   #76
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If they didn't 'need' them then why did they take them?
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Old 06-20-2015, 01:24 PM   #77
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Joe Jackson was never indicted.
Joe Jackson admitted to what he had done. Therefore, banned.

And the numbers back it up. Outstanding world series numbers. Mysteriously below average play in games that were meant to be thrown.
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Old 06-20-2015, 01:25 PM   #78
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Joe Jackson admitted to what he had done. Therefore, banned.

And the numbers back it up. Outstanding world series numbers. Mysteriously below average play in games that were meant to be thrown.
Undisputed best player in the series = "mysteriously below average play"
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Old 06-20-2015, 01:30 PM   #79
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Undisputed best player in the series = "mysteriously below average play"
Undisputed?

Everyone knows exactly what games the Black Sox were trying to throw. There were 5 of them. He hit .250 with 0 RBIs in those games (until he went 2-2 in the final game when they were getting blown out). He was an elite fielder who somehow allowed 9 triples in those losses.

Shoeless Joe Jackson had a monster series... in the games they were supposed to win. He hit way over .500. But shouldn't we focus on the games they were trying to lose? IN much the same way, people obsess over Pete rose betting for his team to win... they're NOT focusing on games he didn't bet on, which is what makes Rose's betting dirtier than people realize.
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Old 06-20-2015, 01:32 PM   #80
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Jackson played better in that series that he did in his previous one and his HR came in a game that was "suppose to be thrown."

Your and idiot.
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Old 06-20-2015, 01:32 PM
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Old 06-20-2015, 01:32 PM   #81
Pasta Little Brioni Pasta Little Brioni is offline
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I don't understand anyone who'd use Brady Anderson as a steroids example.

So people think he took for one year, then stopped? Or that his muscle gains from that year suddenly disappeared? That year, home runs ACROSS THE LEAGUE inexplicably spiked. Not even a little bit. A lot.

Unless the claim is that every single hitter in baseball was juicing in 1996, then stopped... the better explanation is that it was a mix between a fluke season (see Roger Maris) and a juiced ball.
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Old 06-20-2015, 01:48 PM   #82
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If Brady Anderson was the classic case of steroid use, then how come he only had one season like this?

How do you explain Roger Maris spiking to 61 HRs out of nowhere? Or Chris Davis hitting 53 HRs in the post-steroid era? These guys were otherwise 30 HR hitters.

How do you explain that not just Brady Anderson, but every single hitter in 1996 were hitting out of their minds that year? If anything, it's a bigger argument for the juiced ball, not a juiced player.

Juiced ball in 1996. Fluke season. That seems a more likely scenario than believing he was eating spinach and somehow turning into Popeye overnight. Anderson hit a shitload of extra base hits. But okay, I guess it's easy for you to just point at the spike in HRs and say "steroids"
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Old 06-20-2015, 02:05 PM   #83
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The dude yoked up that year. It was obvious as ****. Don't go full zilla. Of course the live ball helped a bit too. Never denied that. Bret Boone also got jacked.
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Old 06-20-2015, 02:23 PM   #84
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He gets in AFTER Pete Rose.
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Old 06-20-2015, 02:34 PM   #85
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The dude yoked up that year. It was obvious as ****. Don't go full zilla. Of course the live ball helped a bit too. Never denied that. Bret Boone also got jacked.
I'm sure he was on something. I'm also sure he was on something much of his career like everybody else. It doesn't explain why he only did it once

Brett Boone is a clear example. Dude ballooned in weight and suddenly became a power hitter over several seasons.

Again... Brady Anderson is not the only hitter in history to have an uncommonly good year. Why couldn't it be a fluke? How many times do you think Chris Davis and Roger Maris could hit over 50?
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Old 06-20-2015, 02:44 PM   #86
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I have a hard time because how do you separate the likely small amount of people caught vs letting in all of the others. I think it's unfair to judge the people who roided when it wasn't against the rules.

Rodriguez is pretty much unlikable though. He got caught in the initial tests, lied, then got caught again. That's pretty ****ing deliberate. I don't think I could vote for him or a guy like Braun.

Also, I'm amazed people throw Nelson Cruz all star votes. The guy has 7 doubles and 18 HRs. I don't believe he is legit at all
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Old 06-20-2015, 03:27 PM   #87
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"Juiced ball" is nonsense. Somebody linked a study from Rhode Island. Compare a ball from the early 60s 30 years later, stored in unknown conditions... The deadspin article was completely inconclusive, noting that some balls "outperformed" while others "underperformed."
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Old 06-20-2015, 03:28 PM   #88
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He gets in AFTER Pete Rose.
One has nothing to do with the other.
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Old 06-20-2015, 03:30 PM   #89
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I don't understand why people hold gambling or throwing games against players, at least in terms of getting into the HOF. It is unethical, and said player who was throwing games should be banned for sometime but how does that effect if they get into the HOF?

In Joe Jackson's case, it HURT his numbers by throwing games. So why should it matter for his hall of fame candidacy? He was not cheating numbers, at least not in a positive direction.

In the case of Pete Rose, as I understand it, Pete Rose bet ON HIS TEAM. If this is really the case, I don't care at all. He is being a confident ball player, he played 100% all the time anyway, I don't see how this is a big deal. I know people like to think of things as pure, but throwing a game is 1 million times worse than betting on your team, that you play on, to win.
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Old 06-20-2015, 03:41 PM   #90
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Yep. And think about it, the baseball playing population is much much greater than it was back then. Both because the population of the earth continues to climb and the game is now huge internationally. The likelihood that the top players in the 20s would be top players today is very low.
Those players in the 20s never really trained though, most couldn't as pay for baseball players was really low. Ruth was a naturally strong guy who played probably a fair number of his games hungover. He also played in an era when the spitball and junkball was common.

Give some of those guys in the 20 and 30s modern training and I am sure they would stack up.
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