Electronics New Desktop Tower - Page 6

**lewdog** · 04-28-2014, 06:57 PM

I'm in need of a new desktop computer tower. I have a 20" Samsung monitor so I only need the tower. My current HP is about 7 years old and the display driver keeps crashing, even when uninstalling and installing again, it's running slow, and crashes multiple browsers on a consistent basis.

The max I want to spend is $500. I don't play games on it but I do stream sports. Other than that, I don't use it much for anything but browsing the net.

I'm not a tech guy so any help would be appreciated in pointing me to something that will perform well without breaking the bank.

**hometeam** · 05-02-2014, 10:47 PM

damn son you got told

kccrow · 05-03-2014, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

Ummmm.... the graphics performance of the Kaveri is about the equivalent of a 7750. That is far better than a r7 240, bud... for the same price.

Think its best you move on from this one.

It is better, not far better. I was referencing the wrong specs in thinking about a 240 for some reason. Its not twice as good by a long shot. Either one, you're getting low frame rates in gaming, but no noticeable difference in most else. Also, you argued I should have went with an APU because of cost, yet you have to jump to a ****ing $185 processor to get that so he' winning a little bit with the A10 Kaveri but he's not saving anything. So what do you want, a ****ing cookie?

Fish · 05-03-2014, 12:25 AM

Somebody's getting they ass kicked over dis computer build..

kccrow · 05-03-2014, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

Somebody's getting they ass kicked over dis computer build..

Not really, but yall can slap each others dicks in your little circle jerk.

He'll gain a whopping 10 FPS in most games. Woo. Just like me he'd be sucking ****in air compared to a real dedicated GPU that will get 10 times what either build would get. We're arguing peanuts rather than the elephant.

jd1020 · 05-03-2014, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

It is better, not far better. I was referencing the wrong specs in thinking about a 240 for some reason. Its not twice as good by a long shot. Either one, you're getting low frame rates in gaming, but no noticeable difference in most else. Also, you argued I should have went with an APU because of cost, yet you have to jump to a ****ing $185 processor to get that so he' winning a little bit with the A10 Kaveri but he's not saving anything. So what do you want, a ****ing cookie?

Are you serious?

You suggested a $110 cpu and a $70 GPU... You are really bad at this.

Want to know the difference between 10 fps? Playable on medium settings at 30 fps vs unplayable at 20.

**hometeam** · 05-03-2014, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

Not really, but yall can slap each others dicks in your little circle jerk.

He'll gain a whopping 10 FPS in most games. Woo. Just like me he'd be sucking ****in air compared to a real dedicated GPU that will get 10 times what either build would get. We're arguing peanuts rather than the elephant.

1. Better is better, especially when its cheaper.

2. Dude isn't playing games. Give it up already~

3. Why u so mad bro?

kccrow · 05-03-2014, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

Are you serious?

You suggested a $110 cpu and a $70 GPU... You are really bad at this.

Want to know the difference between 10 fps? Playable on medium settings at 30 fps vs unplayable at 20.

First, I'm not angry with you jd, because you did point something out I overlooked. However, I am irritated by the other idiots that chimed in useless garbage and I probably let that come out too much in my posts with you. I could have a reasonable conversation with you, and probably htis. I did reference computers that do fit closer to his needs and admitted to my initial mistake about 2 or 3 posts after I posted "the build."

Here's the other half. I don't consider 30 fps on medium setting a remotely enjoyable gaming experience. The user doesn't play games that require that type of performance anyways, he streams and so forth. I used that as more of the reference, light games and streaming video when selecting the card.

My opinion on 20 vs 30 fps is that neither are really playable to the extent it would be overly enjoyable on most games, especially FPS that I've ever played. Especially when others will be pulling as much as 300 FPS or possibly more.

Yes, I agree, better IS better. I referenced him an A10 unit in a post shortly after my original build post. I don't know that any of the chimers-in read that.

I'm not mad, I'm irritated. The user will be able to watch videos approximately at the same level with either card. You're basically using the 7000 series chipset either way.

I think the one thing not stated here that is also an advantage to the AMD A10 unit is the CPU performance, which is better than an FX4300. I didn't really think about the combination of processor/graphics card price versus an A10 unit when making the build list.

I'm not sure how much he watches video, but otherwise I think at this point why not tell him he's best off getting something with a $50 Intel Celeron Haswell in it that he add could upgrade to a i5 later on if he wanted to?

htismaqe · 05-03-2014, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

I'm not sure how much he watches video, but otherwise I think at this point why not tell him he's best off getting something with a $50 Intel Celeron Haswell in it that he add could upgrade to a i5 later on if he wanted to?

That would require him to crack the case or take it to someone who can.

What part about "I don't want to build a computer" is so hard to understand?

htismaqe · 05-03-2014, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

However, I am irritated by the other idiots that chimed in useless garbage and I probably let that come out too much in my posts with you. I could have a reasonable conversation with you, and probably htis.

As far as I'm concerned we ARE having a reasonable conversation. I'm not aggravated, annoyed, or any of that.

We're discussing the guy's needs. That was the point of the thread. No malice or offense intended.

kccrow · 05-03-2014, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

That would require him to crack the case or take it to someone who can.

What part about "I don't want to build a computer" is so hard to understand?

Why be abrasive about it? I didn't say, nor do I imply, that HE would do it. I'm pretty sure I said recommend a computer with a $50 Celeron IN IT. Not BUILD a computer with a $50 Celeron.

If he got one now, and decided later he wanted better performance, he could bring it in and have someone install an i5. A 5 minute job at any computer shop, and those exist in every Podunk town in the country even if its a guy that does it out of his garage.

htismaqe · 05-03-2014, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

Why be abrasive about it? I didn't say, nor do I imply, that HE would do it. I'm pretty sure I said recommend a computer with a $50 Celeron IN IT. Not BUILD a computer with a $50 Celeron.

If he got one now, and decided later he wanted better performance, he could bring it in and have someone install an i5. A 5 minute job at any computer shop, and those exist in every Podunk town in the country even if its a guy that does it out of his garage.

I'm not trying to be abrasive. I just really get the sense that this is more about your "prowess" in building computers than it is about getting the guy what he actually wants.

If he doesn't want to build a computer due to his own perceived lack of "ability" why would he want to buy a computer knowing that it will most likely have to be upgraded? Having to take it to a computer shop just increases the total cost of ownership because it's almost certainly something that's going to cost him money. In some cities, installing a new CPU will cost almost as much in labor as the CPU itself.

The problem is that people keep bringing up "performance" as if it's a key decision criteria. Lewdog said in his original post that he's replacing a SEVEN YEAR OLD computer. His biggest problem is that the display driver keeps crashing, so the additional slowness he referenced is almost certainly due to accumulated Windows "residue" as much as it is to the age of his ancient hardware.

He not only doesn't play high end games, he said he doesn't play games at all. "Performance" to him isn't going to even remotely mean the same thing as it does to someone like you, who obviously knows quite a bit about hardware. The difference between some of these CPUs, to him, might be completely imperceptible. As such, it just doesn't seem like performance should be a key piece of the equation when determining how to answer his question.

htismaqe · 05-03-2014, 10:12 AM

And please understand. Discussions like this ultimately led to me creating this Media Center forum. There was so much of it, it needed it's own place and the other mods agreed at the time.

When it comes to building computers, CP is like the muscle car auto show. Everybody wants to show off their custom kit and chrome.

Unfortunately, lewdog is asking for a 4-door family sedan that gets good gas mileage...

**hometeam** · 05-03-2014, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

And please understand. Discussions like this ultimately led to me creating this Media Center forum. There was so much of it, it needed it's own place and the other mods agreed at the time.

When it comes to building computers, CP is like the muscle car auto show. Everybody wants to show off their custom kit and chrome.

Unfortunately, lewdog is asking for a 4-door family sedan that gets good gas mileage...

Maybe he should PM me :P

BOOOOM

But for real though, there are some good prebuilt deals out there~

http://3btech.net/3btecocospam3.html - $399

Quote:

• Micro ATX case w/ 300 Watt Power Supply
•AMD A6-6400K 3.9GHz dual core processor
•Gigabyte GA-F2A55M-HD2 Socket FM2 Mainboard
•Integrated Radeon HD 8470D DirectX 11 video with VGA DVI and HDMI
•8GB PC10600 DDR3 RAM
•1TB Serial ATA Hard Drive
•DVD burner (also burns CDs)
•7.1 Channel HD Audio Onboard
•6 USB 2.0 ports (2 front, 4 rear)
•10/100/1000 Ethernet LAN
•Viotek Hawkpeck wireless keyboard and optical mouse
•Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit

Everything needed, under budget, shipped price to the door with warranty and tech support, new keyboard and mouse etc etc. Have used these guys before and they stand behind the PCs they build.

kccrow · 05-03-2014, 11:06 AM

****, I just typed a longwinded response and got logged so here goes again...

Htismage... I get what you're saying but when you say things like "what part of ... don't you understand" it comes off as abrasive.

I didn't try to say anything about my prowess about building computers, and could care less about that. I can build whatever someone wants, simple as that.

Lets move on from THAT thought process because I could care less about whether or not someone considers me the best comp builder in the world or the worst. It truly is irrelevant.

Here's what sticks in my mind: The OP stated he has had his computer for 7 years, so obviously this is a guy that does not want to buy another computer very often. So, with that, I'm not going to recommend the lowest end comps, normally, or I will recommend something he can upgrade in a couple years for far less than a new buy. I do admit to the mistake of the FX4300+R7240, but that is a non-issue that could be easily remedied and not truly affect price.

Now, that said, I think its ridiculous if someone is charging as much for putting in a processor as someone is buying one for. I would never charge $200 for 20 minutes to stick in a processor and check him out. I would never charge $75 to put in two sticks of new RAM and check him out in 10 minutes.

So moving on, I mentioned the Celeron with an 1150 socket. A build like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883220587
is well within his budget. This computer is upgradeable later on if he choses to have the work done, to keep pace with software advancements and so on, but right now meets his needs. EDIT: I did not check the FSB of this board to make damn sure it is upgradable, but I would under normal circumstances...

He can upgrade to an i5 on that socket, and it should not cost him a fortune later on. I'd be willing to guess that when he's ready to upgrade the price will drop. He can add more RAM and that should not cost him a lot. He can add a dedicated GPU if his needs ever require it. He isn't boxed in with anything this way. Sure, he'd have to pay more than you or I to get it done, but he doesn't have to pay for a new computer price tag all at once either and he can add over time. In 6 months he could pay a $100 bucks and get twice as much RAM to speed it up more. In another 6 months he could pay $200 for a really nice vid card if he wants. In another 6 months he could spend $250 or whatever to upgrade the processor. Overall, he won't spend much more than if he had built it all to begin with, and he'd have a machine that will continue to last. That's my thought process, so maybe you understand where I"m coming from. And by HE I mean he can bring it in to get it done if he so choses.

Another thing that affects my thought process is that, if I'm in the business of selling builds, I definitely want to get repeat business and if I can offer the guy services later on through upgrades, he'll keep coming back to me over time and calling me for other issues. If he wants a cut and dry, non-upgradeable, cheap box that will do what he wants right now and doesn't care about anything else, go buy an E-Machines at Wal-Mart as I stated very early on. That or there is No problem with the one hometeam suggested in his post, so long as the OP truly doesnt' care that he's getting an obsolete socket that he can't consider upgrading on.

Someone also said something earlier about SSD. Why push an SSD when you can get a regular HD so much cheaper. I think reliability, speed, fragmentation, and noise are the main advantages to an SSD. You don't have to get one, its merely a recommendation. You have a non-tech user, so an SSD to me is kind of a plus, but whatever he wants. The prices of SSDs have come down a ton in the past few years. It all depends on users needs. A user that doesn't save a bunch of music, pictures, and movies can get away with an SSD alone. For other users that do save these items, I recommend a secondary HDD as a storage drive. That, or I at least recommend a partitioned HDD for a system. Non-tech users don't like losing their "stuff" so I try to find solutions to that out front.

kccrow · 05-03-2014, 12:10 PM

I was just thinking about something. Maybe you guys can offer some opinions.

If he decides to go with an AMD APU, he needs to remember that the APU uses your system RAM to power the graphics rather than having its own dedicated RAM like you'd see on dedicated GPU. Normally, people recommend slightly more system RAM because of this. This would be true, of course, with any on board graphics chipset, even with Intel. So I guess, if not buying dedicated graphics, recommend a bit more RAM for handling anything more intensive.

Windows 8.1 needs 2GB of RAM in 64-bit mode on its own. Something to consider I guess.

04-28-2014, 06:57 PM
lewdog Mod Team Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Valley of the hot as **** Casino cash: $1631900	New Desktop Tower I'm in need of a new desktop computer tower. I have a 20" Samsung monitor so I only need the tower. My current HP is about 7 years old and the display driver keeps crashing, even when uninstalling and installing again, it's running slow, and crashes multiple browsers on a consistent basis. The max I want to spend is $500. I don't play games on it but I do stream sports. Other than that, I don't use it much for anything but browsing the net. I'm not a tech guy so any help would be appreciated in pointing me to something that will perform well without breaking the bank.
Posts: 45,659

05-02-2014, 10:47 PM	#76
hometeam Supporter Join Date: Jul 2011 Casino cash: $3931956	damn son you got told
Posts: 10,646

05-03-2014, 12:25 AM	#78
Fish Ain't no relax! Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2008919	Somebody's getting they ass kicked over dis computer build.. __________________
Posts: 47,669

05-03-2014, 10:12 AM	#87
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $10269900	And please understand. Discussions like this ultimately led to me creating this Media Center forum. There was so much of it, it needed it's own place and the other mods agreed at the time. When it comes to building computers, CP is like the muscle car auto show. Everybody wants to show off their custom kit and chrome. Unfortunately, lewdog is asking for a 4-door family sedan that gets good gas mileage...
Posts: 100,022

05-03-2014, 11:06 AM	#89
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $3037078	***, I just typed a longwinded response and got logged so here goes again... Htismage... I get what you're saying but when you say things like "what part of ... don't you understand" it comes off as abrasive. I didn't try to say anything about my prowess about building computers, and could care less about that. I can build whatever someone wants, simple as that. Lets move on from THAT thought process because I could care less about whether or not someone considers me the best comp builder in the world or the worst. It truly is irrelevant. Here's what sticks in my mind: The OP stated he has had his computer for 7 years, so obviously this is a guy that does not want to buy another computer very often. So, with that, I'm not going to recommend the lowest end comps, normally, or I will recommend something he can upgrade in a couple years for far less than a new buy. I do admit to the mistake of the FX4300+R7240, but that is a non-issue that could be easily remedied and not truly affect price. Now, that said, I think its ridiculous if someone is charging as much for putting in a processor as someone is buying one for. I would never charge $200 for 20 minutes to stick in a processor and check him out. I would never charge $75 to put in two sticks of new RAM and check him out in 10 minutes. So moving on, I mentioned the Celeron with an 1150 socket. A build like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883220587 is well within his budget. This computer is upgradeable later on if he choses to have the work done, to keep pace with software advancements and so on, but right now meets his needs. EDIT: I did not check the FSB of this board to make damn sure it is upgradable, but I would under normal circumstances... He can upgrade to an i5 on that socket, and it should not cost him a fortune later on. I'd be willing to guess that when he's ready to upgrade the price will drop. He can add more RAM and that should not cost him a lot. He can add a dedicated GPU if his needs ever require it. He isn't boxed in with anything this way. Sure, he'd have to pay more than you or I to get it done, but he doesn't have to pay for a new computer price tag all at once either and he can add over time. In 6 months he could pay a $100 bucks and get twice as much RAM to speed it up more. In another 6 months he could pay $200 for a really nice vid card if he wants. In another 6 months he could spend $250 or whatever to upgrade the processor. Overall, he won't spend much more than if he had built it all to begin with, and he'd have a machine that will continue to last. That's my thought process, so maybe you understand where I"m coming from. And by HE I mean he can bring it in to get it done if he so choses. Another thing that affects my thought process is that, if I'm in the business of selling builds, I definitely want to get repeat business and if I can offer the guy services later on through upgrades, he'll keep coming back to me over time and calling me for other issues. If he wants a cut and dry, non-upgradeable, cheap box that will do what he wants right now and doesn't care about anything else, go buy an E-Machines at Wal-Mart as I stated very early on. That or there is No problem with the one hometeam suggested in his post, so long as the OP truly doesnt' care that he's getting an obsolete socket that he can't consider upgrading on. Someone also said something earlier about SSD. Why push an SSD when you can get a regular HD so much cheaper. I think reliability, speed, fragmentation, and noise are the main advantages to an SSD. You don't have to get one, its merely a recommendation. You have a non-tech user, so an SSD to me is kind of a plus, but whatever he wants. The prices of SSDs have come down a ton in the past few years. It all depends on users needs. A user that doesn't save a bunch of music, pictures, and movies can get away with an SSD alone. For other users that do save these items, I recommend a secondary HDD as a storage drive. That, or I at least recommend a partitioned HDD for a system. Non-tech users don't like losing their "stuff" so I try to find solutions to that out front. Last edited by kccrow; 05-03-2014 at 11:20 AM..*
Posts: 12,681

05-03-2014, 12:10 PM	#90
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $3037078	I was just thinking about something. Maybe you guys can offer some opinions. If he decides to go with an AMD APU, he needs to remember that the APU uses your system RAM to power the graphics rather than having its own dedicated RAM like you'd see on dedicated GPU. Normally, people recommend slightly more system RAM because of this. This would be true, of course, with any on board graphics chipset, even with Intel. So I guess, if not buying dedicated graphics, recommend a bit more RAM for handling anything more intensive. Windows 8.1 needs 2GB of RAM in 64-bit mode on its own. Something to consider I guess.
Posts: 12,681