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Old 02-13-2016, 01:12 AM  
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VARSITY
***Official 2016 STL Cardinals Thread***
  • 2011 World Series Championship
  • 2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance.
  • 2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship
  • 2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance
  • 2015 Central Division title. Won 100 games. Lost in the NLDS.
  • Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons.
  • 67 post season wins since 2004. 24+ wins more than any other team.
SI article on our off season, Gives us a "A". ??:
http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/02/12/win...ouis-cardinals

2015 III thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=295296
2015 II thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=293412
2015 I thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=289085
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Old 05-02-2016, 10:34 AM   #766
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3 years of arb.

He'll start costing money quickly but I don't give a shit. This team is rudderless and isn't going anywhere with a pack of JAGs leading the offensive charge.

Make the trade for the young superstar and spend the money it takes to keep him. None of this 'first in line with the next best offer' bullshit that Moe has specialized in over the last few FA periods. Go out there and aggressively sign your guy.

I read something a few days ago that said if Arenado and Harper were dropped on the open market today, Arenado might actually get more. I don't believe that for one second and in fact I don't think it would be within $100 million of each other, but I do think that Arenado would be one of the top 5 highest paid players in the game (Harper's just going to wreck the scale).
okay, we empty what little we have in our farm for him. How do we put together a team then?

If we don't resign him, we are Cubs bad for years. We might be anyway without any players besides Arenado.

I could have seen this move last season for one last run at a title in this era. Not seeing the motive now.
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Old 05-02-2016, 10:58 AM   #767
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The guys we are going to compete with are 2 or 3 years away anyway
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:38 AM   #768
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okay, we empty what little we have in our farm for him. How do we put together a team then?

If we don't resign him, we are Cubs bad for years. We might be anyway without any players besides Arenado.

I could have seen this move last season for one last run at a title in this era. Not seeing the motive now.


Arrenado is only 25. He has 6-7 years of prime production left and is likely to be a top 5-10 overall player in baseball in that time period.

You make the trade knowing you HAVE to sign him long term, knowing that he's the young superstar around whom you can build. The Cardinals don't have that type of potential hitter in the minors or on the major league team, a true linchpin, and they will need it to stay competitive in the Central.

With Arrenado, Piscotty, Martinez, and Wacha, the Cardinals would have enough star potential to see a way they stay competitive in the NL Central.

I'm not a cards fan, but St. Louis has had this recent run based largely on not overvaluing its own products, moving prospects for established stars, and then keeping those stars long term.

Seems like Mozeliak has gotten away from that the past few seasons, and that is hurting them now.
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:51 AM   #769
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Yup.

Moe's faberge eggs have really bitten us.

It's not surprising for a young GM to get smitten with his own projects. And with the Miller/Heyward trade, perhaps it shows that he's moved on from that stage of his career.

Now he just needs to move to the next stage where he trades plateaued internal talent for talented pending FAs and then extends them. And make no mistake, Shelby Miller was plateaued internal talent. The D-Backs being goddamn morons in their trade with Atlanta doesn't change the fact that Miller wasn't actually that good and moving him for Heyward was a fine decision.

But in the end, the Cards made the same mistake the Cubs did - they valued Heyward based on who he could be rather than who he was. The difference is that the Cubs also went out and brought in Fowler, a guy who's as good a player as Heyward but with significantly reduced name value. Fowler's relatively cheap deal has helped offset the mess that is Heyward's contract.
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:56 AM   #770
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Well, that plus they have enough money taht it doesn't matter.
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Old 05-02-2016, 12:24 PM   #771
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Well, that plus they have enough money taht it doesn't matter.
The Cardinals have money as well, maybe not as much as the Cubs but they have plenty to pursue and retain elite players.

You don't see the Rays going out and offering 200 million dollar contracts to top FAs do you? Time to stop pretending the Cardinals are the Rays.
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Old 05-02-2016, 12:35 PM   #772
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The Cardinals have money as well, maybe not as much as the Cubs but they have plenty to pursue and retain elite players.

You don't see the Rays going out and offering 200 million dollar contracts to top FAs do you? Time to stop pretending the Cardinals are the Rays.
The cardinals can, but if it busts the recovery is gonna be an issue.

The Cubs don't really have thay problem
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Old 05-02-2016, 12:36 PM   #773
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The cardinals can, but if it busts the recovery is gonna be an issue.

The Cubs don't really have thay problem
The **** they don't. The Cubs haven't been competitive since 2009 because it busted.

The Cubs seemingly have unlimited money right now because their entire core of position players has yet to even reach arbitration.
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Old 05-02-2016, 12:38 PM   #774
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The **** they don't. The Cubs haven't been competitive since 2009 because it busted.

The Cubs seemingly have unlimited money right now because their entire core of position players has yet to even reach arbitration.
Well, from my limited knowlwdge, they haven't had the money they have now over that time.

Similar to the dodgers,
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Old 05-02-2016, 12:45 PM   #775
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Well, from my limited knowlwdge, they haven't had the money they have now over that time.

Similar to the dodgers,
The Cubs have never been without money. They've maintained a top 5 net worth throughout. There was a conflict of interest in previous ownership while the Cubs were owned by the same family that was part owners of the White Sox. When the new regime came in they made it known they were not going to spend on aging FAs that were passed their prime.

Are you going to tell me the Ricketts are poor?
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Old 05-02-2016, 12:50 PM   #776
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The Cubs have never been without money. They've maintained a top 5 net worth throughout. There was a conflict of interest in previous ownership while the Cubs were owned by the same family that was part owners of the White Sox. When the new regime came in they made it known they were not going to spend on aging FAs that were passed their prime.

Are you going to tell me the Ricketts are poor?
I was under the assumption it was due to their new TV deal that increased their revenue that substantially
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Old 05-02-2016, 12:55 PM   #777
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I was under the assumption it was due to their new TV deal that increased their revenue that substantially
What new TV deal? The Cubs are under contract til 2019 and in 2020 the Ricketts are planning to launch their own Cubs network.
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Old 05-02-2016, 01:00 PM   #778
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What new TV deal? The Cubs are under contract til 2019 and in 2020 the Ricketts are planning to launch their own Cubs network.
Oh ok, that's why you shouldn't assume I suppose
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Old 05-02-2016, 01:18 PM   #779
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The **** they don't. The Cubs haven't been competitive since 2009 because it busted.

The Cubs seemingly have unlimited money right now because their entire core of position players has yet to even reach arbitration.
Exactly; well mostly.

It's also because they stole Rizzo. Rizzo's $19 million over the next 3 years would've been arb years that likely netted him nearer $40 million so there's another $20 million in surplus value and he's due $29 million in easily exercised team options in 20/21 that will likely yield another $30 million in surplus value.

So they're about $50 million ahead in surplus value on Rizzo's LTC over the next 5, plus Bryant, Russell, Schwarber and Soler making dick compared to their market over the next 6.

The Cubs are probably getting about $50 million/season in surplus value from their pre-arb players and those pre-arb players are some of their key guys.
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Old 05-02-2016, 02:09 PM   #780
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The **** they don't. The Cubs haven't been competitive since 2009 because it busted.

The Cubs seemingly have unlimited money right now because their entire core of position players has yet to even reach arbitration.
I thought they had a multi-billion cable contract with WGN?
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