***Official 2015 STL Cardinals Thread III.***

[BigRedChief]

2011 World Series Championship
2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance.
2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship
2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance
2015 Central Division title. Won 100 games. Lost in the NLDS.

• Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons.
• Only 1 losing season since 2000.
• Reached the World Series 4 times since 2004 and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005.
• Made the NLCS 9 times including the last 4 years 2011-2014
• Three million attendance? Take it to the bank.
• 65 post season wins since 2004. 22+ wins more than any other team.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

That's not a bad long-term strategy if you want to drop $350 million into two OFs this season, but if the Cardinals were worried at all about their OF depth, they wouldn't have waived Bourjos.

Every OF on the ML Roster right now, save Pham, has significant experience playing in the COF and three of them can play center. Hell, even Moss can play a COF spot at about the same ghastly level as Holliday.

It just seems like that approach shuffles around multiple deck chairs, spends a lot of money, and still doesn't fix the biggest hole on the team, first, with a guy whose bat would profile as good for the position.

I think Piscotty/Moss will give you 600 ABs of plus 1b production. Granted, I'm counting on Matheny to be semi-intelligent here, but with just a little nuance, you could get 25 HRs, a .260 BA and an .825 OPS out of 1b from those 2 with room for a little improvement in all those numbers.

That's not Rizzo...but it's not far removed.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

He'll get 80 starts and 350+ ABs even in this alignment due to injury and matchups. You can find him 3 starts/wk just rotating among the other 3 OFers. You situationally deploy him in a manner that tends to hide him from power pitchers (who really carve him up) and use him as your first bat off the bench, so he's not being sent out there in the 8th/9th against the hellish relievers that will cut up anybody with a hole in their swing.

He did enough to show that he could very well be an everyday player long-term (hence me including him at CF in my 2017 plan), but he also showed enough flaws that I'm not going to ink him in for 155 starts. He's still damn young - 2016 will be his age 24 season - there's plenty of development yet for him to do and there's a good spot on this team for him to do that from.

I'd be curious to see how many guus progress from where he is now to where we need him to be, at his age and at this level.

I can't imagine it's very high but I think you're so limited you've gotta see it thru

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

On it face, yeah that's a ton.

But the Dodgers can afford to pay Fernandez and you guys would have the best 1-2 punch since Johnson/Schilling - a duo that took the DBacks all the way to the championship.

You really are talking Koufax/Drysdale here. In the era of short-series baseball, you'd have a very real possibility have having the best top 2 duo in baseball history for the next 3-5 years.

Flags fly forever. I can certainly understand why you wouldn't want to pull the trigger on that, but at the same time I'd have a hard time categorically stating that there's 'no way' I'd want to do it. It seems impossible to me that the Dodgers couldn't build a team around Kershaw/Fernandez that was good enough to make the post-season 5 times in the next 5 seasons and if they manage that, they will absolutely be able to ride that pair to at least one championship in short-series ball.

I'd be all for it if you could guarantee me at least one championship over the next 3 years. Unfortunately you can't.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

I'd be all for it if you could guarantee me at least one championship over the next 3 years. Unfortunately you can't.

Nor can Seager and by the time Urias is ready, Kershaw's going to be 30 yrs old with 2,000 innings on the odometer.

I feel like the NL is only going to get tougher. The Mets young pitching is going to continue to improve and they'll start spending soon enough. I think the Cubs, with all their rookies, may experience a bit of a sophomore slump in '16 but they'll be murderous for the next 6-8 years after that.

If there's anything that can be done to demonstrably improve your WS chances in the next 3 seasons, I think it's a risk worth taking.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Nor can Seager and by the time Urias is ready, Kershaw's going to be 30 yrs old with 2,000 innings on the odometer.

I feel like the NL is only going to get tougher. The Mets young pitching is going to continue to improve and they'll start spending soon enough. I think the Cubs, with all their rookies, may experience a bit of a sophomore slump in '16 but they'll be murderous for the next 6-8 years after that.

If there's anything that can be done to demonstrably improve your WS chances in the next 3 seasons, I think it's a risk worth taking.

I'm fine with giving up Urias and something else.

[ChiefsCountry]

I think one of the Cardinals big question for the offseason is which position do you see Piscotty at for the future - left field or 1st base?

[O.city]

Jon Morosi

#STLCards nearing deal to acquire Jedd Gyorko from #Padres, source says.

[Brent Williams]

Deal is done. Jon Jay is going and Gyorko is coming

[DJ's left nut]

Friggen love this move.

A) It gets Jon Jay gone.

B) Gyorko is 2 seasons removed from being seen as the next Utley. Now his ceiling should be lowered quite a bit due to his horrific sophomore slump but he did experience a slight bounceback last year. If you get him out of that hitter's graveyard, he could easily go back to being a 20 HR hitter w/ the ability to play 3b/2b well. If they were really looking at Zobrist, Gyorko can give them what Zobrist would have with greater upside, less $$ and trades some OBP for some power (which we need more than the OBP anyway).

Just an outstanding move, IMO. If you get a feeler on Wong, you can put him on the block as well now or even move Carpenter over to 1b if the current crop can't get it done.

This creates a lot of roster flexibility and builds some upside back into the roster.

[Brent Williams]

Hey DJ if for some reason they can't get Heyward what do you think about shipping Wong to the Rockies for Cargo? Obviously going to need more but would Wong be a starting block?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Brent Williams

Hey DJ if for some reason they can't get Heyward what do you think about shipping Wong to the Rockies for Cargo? Obviously going to need more but would Wong be a starting block?

I'd be leery of trading for an injury prone product of Coors field.

His home/rd splits are staggering - over a .200 point OPS differential. And it's not like holliday who was a 1.100 home/.900 rd guy at his apex. Gonzalez is a .925 home and .725 rd guy. When Holliday came down from Coors, he was still a great hitter, just not a God. Cargo, OTOH, is simply a sub-standard hitter away from Coors Field.

Worse still is that it isn't just his power that drops - his approach and strike zone judgment fall to shit as well. That tells me he's a guy that feasts on mistake pitches. Guys who just see their power fluctuate are guys that are using the thin air to drive the ball better (who should still be solid hitters after they get traded). But guys who plummet across the board are essentially taking advantage of guys who can't make their breaking stuff work at altitude and when those same hitters are at sea level, they get crushed.

It's like letting a major leaguer play 1/2 his games against AAA pitching.

Worse still, even his L/R splits are alarming - dude can't hit lefties.

So you have a platoon player who probably can't hit away from Coors, is on the wrong side of 30 and is owed $37 million over the next two years. Nah, I'll let someone else take that gamble. I might be willing to take the contract, but I wouldn't give anything worthwhile in return for it.

[jd1020]

Thats a lot of salary to take on when you've already got 2 players entrenched at Gyorko's positions.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

I think one of the Cardinals big question for the offseason is which position do you see Piscotty at for the future - left field or 1st base?

I don't think that's a question that you have to answer. I think it's ultimately a question that gets answered for you.

If you have a chance to add an impact corner OFer then Piscotty's long-term home is at 1b. If you can't find that guy but Moss and/or Adams somehow find traction, then Piscotty's long-term home is in LF.

Ideally you'd find a true masher to play 1b and Piscotty's bat profiles as an excellent 2, 3 or 5 hitter in a corner OF. But 1b is a pretty barren market right now (oddly enough). Unless Chris Davis becomes a Cardinal, you have to figure the path of least resistance is Piscotty at 1b for the foreseeable future.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Thats a lot of salary to take on when you've already got 2 players entrenched at Gyorko's positions.

{shrug}

Wong costs nothing and Carpenter could easily shift to 1b where we really don't have anyone worth a damn at the moment.

And again, the Cards were in on Zobrist who'd have cost even more and only been worth anywhere near that for the first 2 years of the deal. Additionally, Gyorko is cheap for the first 2 years of the deal and in 2018 the new cable money is in full effect so his obligations in 18 and 19 won't be onerous at all.

Besides, I'm just waiting for that Fernandez to the Dodgers for Seager and Urias deal to go down so we can trade Wong to the fish for Hechavarria.

[Brent Williams]

They sent 17 million with him so they are paying some of his salary so it makes it even better