Football Tom Brady; least clutch QB in NFL history? - Page 51

Hootie · 12-22-2014, 02:48 PM

(Slow day at work for me, guys):

Tom Brady:

2005: Gets crushed by Jake Plummer and the Denver Broncos. Plays HORRENDOUSLY. Embarrassingly bad.

2006: Blows an 18 point lead to Peyton Manning in the AFCCG. Plays horrendously, and ends the game in Indy territory throwing a game ending INT to Marlon Jackson. Great clutch play.

2007: 18-1. Scores 14 points in the Super Bowl in a game they are favored to win by 13.5. Also, in the AFCCG against the Chargers, he posted a QB rating of 18 and threw 3 INT's. Very clutch, I know.

2008: KNEE CRUSHER; Cassel wins 11 games as starting QB.

2009: Gets OBLITERATED by Joe Flacco and the Ravens. Loses the game single-handedly in the 1st quarter and posts a WHOPPING QBR OF 4.2. Not a typo. FOUR POINT TWO. FOUR POINT TWO. In reference, Peyton posted a 24.4 last year against Seattle in the Super Bowl. So picture how bad that performance was, and multiply it by about 25.

2010: Lost @ home to MARK SANCHEZ AND THE JETS. But don't worry guys, Tom Brady doubled his QBR in this one and posted a respectable 8.7 EIGHT POINT SEVEN.

2011: Got to the Super Bowl by beating Tim Tebow, playing HORRENDOUSLY against the Ravens (again) in the Lee Evans game, and then overthrowing Welker to lose another Super Bowl. Clutch.

2012: Got obliterated by Joe Flacco and the Ravens despite being favored by 7. He posted a respectable 40 QBR, though, and only lost by 15 ... despite Peyton beating the team the week before only to be Rahim Moore'd. Great clutch play.

2013: Beat Andrew Luck despite throwing 0 TD's. Lost to Peyton Manning, while playing another mediocre game. 1 TD. Very clutch, Mr. Brady!

So, in short, the biggest playoff choking QB in the NFL right now is Tom Brady. In all of those aforementioned choke jobs, he was favored to lose TWICE, both to Peyton Manning (both losses).

Any more myths you want be to bust?

4.2 QBR and 8.7 QBR is Rex Grossman bad, in case anyone wanted a reference point.

Hootie · 01-20-2015, 04:48 PM

ok yeah

by the way, this is what I'm talking about with QB double standards!

I was wrong ... the Jets did beat the Colts in the 1st round the same year they beat New England in the 2nd round (1 and out for both QBs) ...

In round 1, Peyton actually had a QBR of 74 (very good, by the way) ... he also led his team, down 14-13, to a field goal with 50 seconds left to take the lead 16-14 only for the Jets to drive down the field and win the game 17-16.

Manning played well in that game. It was also the last game he played for 18 months because he then proceeded to have 4 neck surgeries.

The following week, the Jets went into Foxboro and embarrassed the Patriots @ Foxboro where ESPN'S QBR RATED TOM BRADY AS HAVING AN 8.7 QBR

Now, the QBR is determined through clutch based ratings...

and despite throwing for 300 yards and 2 TD's ... ESPN's QBR concluded that Tom Brady's QBR was an 8.7

8.7

That basically tells me that Tom Brady single-handedly lost that game.

Yet, Peyton Manning choked the week before because his defense let him down after he took a 4th quarter lead with 50 seconds left. All Peyton's fault.

Here is the ESPN QBR explained:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/68...terback-rating

So we reference one postseason where both QB's have a 1 and done ... and they are going to be weighed the same despite one having a 74 QBR and one having a 9 QBR and one guy led his team down the field for a possible game winning score with less than a minute remaining while the other guy basically lost the game for his team.

NO QB DOUBLE STANDARD WHATSOEVER

Just Passin' By · 01-20-2015, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

How is that a false premise? The Patriots have not won a SB since Spygate. He's had some very good teams and has come very close to winning, but hasn't won again yet. Continuing to pound sand and downplay Spygate is BS. If the Patriots win 12 days from now, you might have more credibility for your argument.

Are you trying to out-stupid Hootie?

Rams Fan · 01-20-2015, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Are you trying to out-stupid Hootie?

Does not winning a SB after one of the most notable scandals in recent NFL history-that provided a benefit of one team over others-not worth mentioning?

Hootie · 01-20-2015, 04:52 PM

it's the equivalent to saying things like "the Chiefs beat Seattle and New England, so the Chiefs are the best team in the NFL."

Peyton Manning has had Jim Mora, Tony Dungy, Jim Caldwell and John Fox as his coaches his career. Tom Brady has had the best coach in the history of the NFL his entire career (this is according to Amnorix, and I agree).

Amnorix · 01-20-2015, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

and I can agree with a lot of those points ...

but you sit here and make excuses for Brady and pretend Manning never had any of these things happen to him

Quote:

his 1st Denver year ... he led his team down to take a TD lead late in the 4th quarter against the Ravens ... then Fox went all John Fox and instead of trying to pick up a 1st down on 3rd and 5, they ran, and punted to Flacco ... who then unleashed a 70 yard "punt" hail mary on 3rd and 10 and Rahim Moore made the worst play in NFL history and then the Broncos lost in overtime (albeit by a bad throw by Manning). They lost that game. Duh.

Do you see the problem here?

Quote:

And that's a 1 and done for Manning.

Only 8 to go!

Quote:

But when Brady loses to the Jets you get to reference that Manning lost to that Jets team, too (which I don't believe is true, I think that happened in different years...I'm fairly certain the Colts beat those Jets that year to go to the Super Bowl only to lose to the Saints in a game that was, IMO, decided by an onside kick rather than a pick 6 but I can see both sides to the argument)....

JESUS ****ING CHRIST. You are a complete imbecile. I have pointed this out to you MULTIPLE times on this thread. You kept saying Brady lost to SAnchez!! and I pointed out, REPEATEDLY, that Mannign also lost to Sanchez that SAME ****ING YEAR.

This is what we call the full Hootie. Like this is hard to find/prove?

Here, let me help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2...1_NFL_playoffs

Quote:

but you'll never reference the fact that in this 1 and done by Manning ... the Pats got to play this very seem Ravens team at home the following week ... and Brady played terribly, and the Ravens won a laugher, in the title game, at Foxboro ... and Brady didn't even put his team remotely close to getting Rahim Moore'd or getting an overtime chance. He didn't play good enough.

2009 Patriots were Brady's worst team other than 2002. It was completely dysfunctional. That was the year of "Football Life" with Belichick, and he says to Brady, when they are geting smoked by the Saints, that he can't get them to play the way they need to. Adalius Thomas is causing problems in the locker room (he is out of football after that), Bruschi's last year, Rodney Harrison blew out his quad and missed most of the season, then retired.

As Belichick said, all we have is Moss and Welker. Stop those two, and we have absolutely nothing else going on. And that lack of talent led to a 10-6 record and an early exit from the playoffs.

Meh, what's the point. Your argument is pathetic. Everyone knows it, except you.

Hootie · 01-20-2015, 04:56 PM

Peyton Manning has had 7 of the top 15 QBR seasons of all-time. Tom Brady? 2.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/year/0/type/alltime-season

That's regular season.

Peyton Manning has 4 better QBR postseasons than Tom Brady's best one.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/year/0/...alltime-season

So, again, like I said...if you want to consider Tom Brady to be the GOAT, I understand. He's awesome.

But pretending like it's open and shut is insanely stupid and just shows how much people hate Peyton Manning on this board.

The only statistic that shows Tom Brady is better than Peyton Manning is playoff wins.

And if that's the ONLY STATISTIC that you can judge a QB on ... then Russell Wilson is on pace to be the greatest ever ... and he's not even elite according to CP ... and he's about the 8th best player on his team ... and he shouldn't sign a contract extension.

But it's nice to know that Russell gets ZERO CREDIT FOR his wins but Tom Brady is the single reason he's won 21 playoff games. Single reason. Yep.

**Dave Lane** · 01-20-2015, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donger

Oh dear. Whatever will I find to fill the void left by Hootie?

Oh look! A quark!

It has far more cerebral mass than said Hootie.

Hootie · 01-20-2015, 05:01 PM

so, when Manning lost to Sanchez before he had to get neck surgeries, had a QBR of 74 (really good) and drove them to a lead with 50 seconds left ... that's an equivalent loss to Brady posting a QBR of 8.7 and playing one of the worst QBR postseason games in the history of the NFL?

Let me put this in context for you ...

Andrew Luck had a QBR of 17.7 against New England Sunday.
Brady had a QBR of 8.7.

and that wasn't even Brady's worst game in the postseason

...and it's hilarious that Brady gets a pass because of "dysfunction" in the locker room. Or injuries.

But when Manning comes out after a loss and says "we had protection issues" he's a terrible guy ... he's never had injuries on his team ... and there has never been any dysfunction.

Brady gets an excuse for every postseason loss the last decade.
Manning has choked in every loss the last decade (except one, where he won) ... oh but the one he won doesn't count because he played Rex Grossman (nevermind the fact he led the Colts back from down 18 in the AFCCG against Tom Terrific) ... doesn't count ... because he had a 3:7 TD/INT ratio!

But Tom and his 1 TD in the tuck rule / Spygate Super Bowl #1 !??!?! MV ****IN' P!

Nope.

No double standard!

I'm just a reerun!

Amnorix · 01-20-2015, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

In round 1, Peyton actually had a QBR of 74 (very good, by the way) ... he also led his team, down 14-13, to a field goal with 50 seconds left to take the lead 16-14 only for the Jets to drive down the field and win the game 17-16.

Manning played well in that game. It was also the last game he played for 18 months because he then proceeded to have 4 neck surgeries.

The following week, the Jets went into Foxboro and embarrassed the Patriots @ Foxboro where ESPN'S QBR RATED TOM BRADY AS HAVING AN 8.7 QBR

Now, the QBR is determined through clutch based ratings...

and despite throwing for 300 yards and 2 TD's ... ESPN's QBR concluded that Tom Brady's QBR was an 8.7

8.7

That basically tells me that Tom Brady single-handedly lost that game.

Yet, Peyton Manning choked the week before because his defense let him down after he took a 4th quarter lead with 50 seconds left. All Peyton's fault.

Here is the ESPN QBR explained:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/68...terback-rating

So we reference one postseason where both QB's have a 1 and done ... and they are going to be weighed the same despite one having a 74 QBR and one having a 9 QBR and one guy led his team down the field for a possible game winning score with less than a minute remaining while the other guy basically lost the game for his team.

NO QB DOUBLE STANDARD WHATSOEVER

I don't have time to analyze this QBR thing, but I'm finding this a bit hard to get.

Manning was 18 for 26, for 225 yards, one TD and no INTs.

Brady was 29 for 45, for 299 yards, with 2 TDs and 1 INT.

But yeah, we lost Welker the week before the playoffs started. Bad luck.

Amnorix · 01-20-2015, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

Andrew Luck had a QBR of 17.7 against New England Sunday.
Brady had a QBR of 8.7.

Then QBR is broken.

There is no way that Luck: 12 for 33, with 133 yards, 0 TDs and 2 INTs

outperformed Brady: 29 for 45, for 299 yards, 2 TDs and 1 INT

Regular QB rating system: Brady 89, Luck 23.

Hootie · 01-20-2015, 05:05 PM

THERE HAVE BEEN 197 RATED POSTSEASON GAMES IN NFL POSTSEASON HISTORY USING THE QBR TOOL.

IN THOSE 197 GAMES, TOM BRADY HAS THE 188TH WORST AND THE 194TH WORST POSTSEASON GAME IN THE HISTORY OF POSTSEASON QBR.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/year/0/...me-game/page/4

You can't be the greatest of all time because you're supposedly clutch when it counts and then have a decade worth of postseason losses and zero rings. I'm sorry.

It's a what have you done for me lately, league ...

and lately? Brady has zero rings in a decade.

And if Russell Wilson gets zero credit for 6-1, I fail to see why Brady should get much credit for 9-0 ... considering they are both supposed game managers for elite teams

Nightfyre · 01-20-2015, 05:06 PM

Hootie has 224 posts in this thread - more than the next 6 folks put together and 4x more than amnorix has. He has yet to convince anyone except himself and I remain skeptical that he's not still trying to (convince himself, that is.)

Hootie · 01-20-2015, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Then QBR is broken.

There is no way that Luck: 12 for 33, with 133 yards, 0 TDs and 2 INTs

outperformed Brady: 29 for 45, for 299 yards, 2 TDs and 1 INT

Regular QB rating system: Brady 89, Luck 23.

of course it's broken

...it's built to take meaningless stats out of QB rating

It's hilarious that everything that paints Brady in a different light HAS TO BE broken.

Amnorix · 01-20-2015, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

Peyton Manning has had 7 of the top 15 QBR seasons of all-time. Tom Brady? 2.

Hey, umm, that chart shows Matt Stafford as having the best season of any quarterback EVER. That Alex Smith's 2013 was the 9th best EVER, both of which were much better than Brady's 50 TD/8 INTs or whatever it was 2007.

My skepticism about QBR is now moving into complete disbelief.

Hootie · 01-20-2015, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

I don't have time to analyze this QBR thing, but I'm finding this a bit hard to get.

Manning was 18 for 26, for 225 yards, one TD and no INTs.

Brady was 29 for 45, for 299 yards, with 2 TDs and 1 INT.

But yeah, we lost Welker the week before the playoffs started. Bad luck.

of course it's bad luck

Manning had to get 4 neck surgeries following this postseason and didn't play football for 18 months

hilarious excuse

Manning led his team to the lead with 50 seconds left and they lost ... and that's a Manning choke? Ha.

and QBR is broke ... and Nate Silver is dumb ... and everything that suggests Tom isn't maybe as awesome in the postseason as everyone thinks is wrong

but coldhardfootballfacts.com ! it's gospel

12-22-2014, 02:48 PM
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	Tom Brady; least clutch QB in NFL history? (Slow day at work for me, guys): Tom Brady: 2005: Gets crushed by Jake Plummer and the Denver Broncos. Plays HORRENDOUSLY. Embarrassingly bad. 2006: Blows an 18 point lead to Peyton Manning in the AFCCG. Plays horrendously, and ends the game in Indy territory throwing a game ending INT to Marlon Jackson. Great clutch play. 2007: 18-1. Scores 14 points in the Super Bowl in a game they are favored to win by 13.5. Also, in the AFCCG against the Chargers, he posted a QB rating of 18 and threw 3 INT's. Very clutch, I know. 2008: KNEE CRUSHER; Cassel wins 11 games as starting QB. 2009: Gets OBLITERATED by Joe Flacco and the Ravens. Loses the game single-handedly in the 1st quarter and posts a WHOPPING QBR OF 4.2. Not a typo. FOUR POINT TWO. FOUR POINT TWO. In reference, Peyton posted a 24.4 last year against Seattle in the Super Bowl. So picture how bad that performance was, and multiply it by about 25. 2010: Lost @ home to MARK SANCHEZ AND THE JETS. But don't worry guys, Tom Brady doubled his QBR in this one and posted a respectable 8.7 EIGHT POINT SEVEN. 2011: Got to the Super Bowl by beating Tim Tebow, playing HORRENDOUSLY against the Ravens (again) in the Lee Evans game, and then overthrowing Welker to lose another Super Bowl. Clutch. 2012: Got obliterated by Joe Flacco and the Ravens despite being favored by 7. He posted a respectable 40 QBR, though, and only lost by 15 ... despite Peyton beating the team the week before only to be Rahim Moore'd. Great clutch play. 2013: Beat Andrew Luck despite throwing 0 TD's. Lost to Peyton Manning, while playing another mediocre game. 1 TD. Very clutch, Mr. Brady! So, in short, the biggest playoff choking QB in the NFL right now is Tom Brady. In all of those aforementioned choke jobs, he was favored to lose TWICE, both to Peyton Manning (both losses). Any more myths you want be to bust? 4.2 QBR and 8.7 QBR is Rex Grossman bad, in case anyone wanted a reference point.
Posts: 56,356

01-20-2015, 04:48 PM	#751
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	ok yeah by the way, this is what I'm talking about with QB double standards! I was wrong ... the Jets did beat the Colts in the 1st round the same year they beat New England in the 2nd round (1 and out for both QBs) ... In round 1, Peyton actually had a QBR of 74 (very good, by the way) ... he also led his team, down 14-13, to a field goal with 50 seconds left to take the lead 16-14 only for the Jets to drive down the field and win the game 17-16. Manning played well in that game. It was also the last game he played for 18 months because he then proceeded to have 4 neck surgeries. The following week, the Jets went into Foxboro and embarrassed the Patriots @ Foxboro where ESPN'S QBR RATED TOM BRADY AS HAVING AN 8.7 QBR Now, the QBR is determined through clutch based ratings... and despite throwing for 300 yards and 2 TD's ... ESPN's QBR concluded that Tom Brady's QBR was an 8.7 8.7 That basically tells me that Tom Brady single-handedly lost that game. Yet, Peyton Manning choked the week before because his defense let him down after he took a 4th quarter lead with 50 seconds left. All Peyton's fault. Here is the ESPN QBR explained: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/68...terback-rating So we reference one postseason where both QB's have a 1 and done ... and they are going to be weighed the same despite one having a 74 QBR and one having a 9 QBR and one guy led his team down the field for a possible game winning score with less than a minute remaining while the other guy basically lost the game for his team. NO QB DOUBLE STANDARD WHATSOEVER
Posts: 56,356

01-20-2015, 04:52 PM	#754
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	it's the equivalent to saying things like "the Chiefs beat Seattle and New England, so the Chiefs are the best team in the NFL." Peyton Manning has had Jim Mora, Tony Dungy, Jim Caldwell and John Fox as his coaches his career. Tom Brady has had the best coach in the history of the NFL his entire career (this is according to Amnorix, and I agree).
Posts: 56,356

01-20-2015, 04:56 PM	#756
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	Peyton Manning has had 7 of the top 15 QBR seasons of all-time. Tom Brady? 2. http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/year/0/type/alltime-season That's regular season. Peyton Manning has 4 better QBR postseasons than Tom Brady's best one. http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/year/0/...alltime-season So, again, like I said...if you want to consider Tom Brady to be the GOAT, I understand. He's awesome. But pretending like it's open and shut is insanely stupid and just shows how much people hate Peyton Manning on this board. The only statistic that shows Tom Brady is better than Peyton Manning is playoff wins. And if that's the ONLY STATISTIC that you can judge a QB on ... then Russell Wilson is on pace to be the greatest ever ... and he's not even elite according to CP ... and he's about the 8th best player on his team ... and he shouldn't sign a contract extension. But it's nice to know that Russell gets ZERO CREDIT FOR his wins but Tom Brady is the single reason he's won 21 playoff games. Single reason. Yep.
Posts: 56,356

01-20-2015, 05:01 PM	#758
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	so, when Manning lost to Sanchez before he had to get neck surgeries, had a QBR of 74 (really good) and drove them to a lead with 50 seconds left ... that's an equivalent loss to Brady posting a QBR of 8.7 and playing one of the worst QBR postseason games in the history of the NFL? Let me put this in context for you ... Andrew Luck had a QBR of 17.7 against New England Sunday. Brady had a QBR of 8.7. and that wasn't even Brady's worst game in the postseason ...and it's hilarious that Brady gets a pass because of "dysfunction" in the locker room. Or injuries. But when Manning comes out after a loss and says "we had protection issues" he's a terrible guy ... he's never had injuries on his team ... and there has never been any dysfunction. Brady gets an excuse for every postseason loss the last decade. Manning has choked in every loss the last decade (except one, where he won) ... oh but the one he won doesn't count because he played Rex Grossman (nevermind the fact he led the Colts back from down 18 in the AFCCG against Tom Terrific) ... doesn't count ... because he had a 3:7 TD/INT ratio! But Tom and his 1 TD in the tuck rule / Spygate Super Bowl #1 !??!?! MV ****IN' P! Nope. No double standard! I'm just a reerun!
Posts: 56,356

01-20-2015, 05:05 PM	#761
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	THERE HAVE BEEN 197 RATED POSTSEASON GAMES IN NFL POSTSEASON HISTORY USING THE QBR TOOL. IN THOSE 197 GAMES, TOM BRADY HAS THE 188TH WORST AND THE 194TH WORST POSTSEASON GAME IN THE HISTORY OF POSTSEASON QBR. http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/year/0/...me-game/page/4 You can't be the greatest of all time because you're supposedly clutch when it counts and then have a decade worth of postseason losses and zero rings. I'm sorry. It's a what have you done for me lately, league ... and lately? Brady has zero rings in a decade. And if Russell Wilson gets zero credit for 6-1, I fail to see why Brady should get much credit for 9-0 ... considering they are both supposed game managers for elite teams
Posts: 56,356

01-20-2015, 05:06 PM	#762
Nightfyre MVP Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Helena, MT Casino cash: $3338849	Hootie has 224 posts in this thread - more than the next 6 folks put together and 4x more than amnorix has. He has yet to convince anyone except himself and I remain skeptical that he's not still trying to (convince himself, that is.)
Posts: 18,570