Todd Haley to the Browns

[Chiefnj2]

That's all. New offensive coordinator.

[bigjosh]

none of it matters with Hue Jackson

[Shields68]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

This is the entirely intelligent way to go about things. I don't understand how anyone could disagree. Whether it's Alex or another vet, this WILL be how Dorsey will go about the rebuild.

Another Vet will not cost multiple picks. His plan is to trade multiple picks for one of the top available QB's and then use the top pick on a QB. Seems like a total waste of draft capitol. 1st picks in the drafts do not sit the whole year, let alone 2 years.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Shields68

Smith is a good soldier and team mate. But he is not wanting to go to a team that drafts a QB 1. Sure if traded he has to for a season. But why resign? Sure they franchise tag him but will they for 20+_million? No, when they have their no.1 pick and can use the 20 + million on players. So 1 year for multiple picks is a stupid move by the Browns. Smith is going to want to go somewhere where he is the QB and they can win in the next 3-5 years. The first pick in the draft is not setting 1 year let alone 2-3.

I understand what you're saying; however I think they DO sit the #1 pick QB. It's been the problem in Cleveland for decades that they draft a savior, throw him to the wolves, and he busts. They specifically want to NOT do that again. So An Alex Smith type is perfect to right the ship for a season, maybe two while the kid develops.

[notorious]

Originally Posted by COchief

Agreed, certainly adds some drama that Haley signed on with an AFC N team. Gonna be real awkward with his dad's connection to Pitt and getting fired essentially by the team. Not the safest move either signing on with Hue's staff as he is almost certainly gone unless next season is a miracle. Seems like Haley has always had a few screws loose but his recent behavior points to a meltdown coming, bar patrons in Cleveland best have their dukes up if they see him and his wife taking shots.

He is setting himself up to take over head coach. Smart move actually.

[Shields68]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I understand what you're saying; however I think they DO sit the #1 pick QB. It's been the problem in Cleveland for decades that they draft a savior, throw him to the wolves, and he busts. They specifically want to NOT do that again. So An Alex Smith type is perfect to right the ship for a season, maybe two while the kid develops.

The past problems is that the OL was bad, they did not have a running game and the teams GM's were bad at evaluating talent, no amount of time was going to fix Johnny's alcohol problems.

OL is not a huge problem area that is limited to Cleveland and rookie QB's. The current Browns team the OL with maybe 1 addition can be above average if Thomas is back. They have the picks and money to fix any problem. If they play their cards right is actually in a pretty good situation. The money ball guys may not have been great at judging talent but they left Dorsey with a ton of cap room and draft capitol. It is not going to be a throw him too the wolves situation of passing 40 times and taking a beating.

[cmh6476]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

They get their QB with 1.

I dont see them keeping their 4th overall pick. They need so much talent they can go down to 10 or so and pick up a couple of seconds at least.

they already have three second rounders

[Dave Lane]

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

This team is going to pick up Alex to be the Ultimate Chiefs outcast team.

They’ll then beat us 13-12 in the playoffs.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Shields68

If they go the Smith route, the plan would be to have him as your QB for the next 5 years. Otherwise he is a 1 year rental and he would not sign long term anyway, and that is not worth giving up a 2nd rounder plus to acquire him.

As for the rookie QB's if you take a QB 1 you are going all in on his development and banking on him being your franchise. LOL taking a QB 1 and thinking you can't rely on him, if that is the mindset he is not worth a 1. All of your QB's you mentioned besides Mahomes played extensively their rookie year and really Mahomes would be much further along if he played 8 games last year. He also was not a top 5 pick.

Browns fans will get behind the team if they are showing they are adding talent and will come out to see the No 1 pick. Dorsey knows that the fastest way out their problem is to stock pile talent. They are getting 5 starters out of their 1st and 2nd rounders they have a ton of cap room to add FA's. Taking a QB 1 and planning on playing him does not automatically equal a losing record. They are going to be a whole new team next year anyway.

The qbs in this class arent exactly surefire picks. If the browns rest their entire franchise on a top 5 pick and he doesn't have that team in the playoffs by year 2, those fans will set the stadium on fire. It's a risky risky move. I'm in favor of drafting a top 5 qb and playing him right away.... For any team but the browns.

As for Alex Smith, he's going on 34. I'm sure hed be fine with a team that will overpay him in a frontloaded contract. The browns are so under the cap that it actually makes cap sense for them to waste money. Do you realize they traded for Brock osweiler last year because they desperately needed his $20m contract so they could hit their cap floor? They could make Alex one of the highest paid qbs in football next year and it's the only team where that makes perfect sense.

[Titty Meat]

Sign Cousins draft Barkley. That team will be tough.

[eDave]

Haley is the Matt Cassel of NFL coaching.

Browns making moves.

[Shields68]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The qbs in this class arent exactly surefire picks. If the browns rest their entire franchise on a top 5 pick and he doesn't have that team in the playoffs by year 2, those fans will set the stadium on fire. It's a risky risky move. I'm in favor of drafting a top 5 qb and playing him right away.... For any team but the browns.

As for Alex Smith, he's going on 34. I'm sure hed be fine with a team that will overpay him in a frontloaded contract. The browns are so under the cap that it actually makes cap sense for them to waste money. Do you realize they traded for Brock osweiler last year because they desperately needed his $20m contract so they could hit their cap floor? They could make Alex one of the highest paid qbs in football next year and it's the only team where that makes perfect sense.

They traded for Brock because they were getting draft picks to take on his contract. If not for the picks they could still find away to spend the money. If the goal is to win they are a ton a FA's that they can spend the money on. But my point is the draft picks and the possible players they represent are worth more then the money at this point. If Smith was a FA sure they would look at signing him, but he is not the chiefs are going to want a 2nd and probably another pick as well. Smith is going to get his money and he will get that money somewhere where he is going to play.

I also do not think the team is a dire as you sound. Sure they can not have a 1 win season again. But regardless I do not think Dorsey is going to be swayed. He has been involved with building winners and is going to make what he believes is the correct choice, not because of the past history of drafting Manziel or the prior GM's were idiots. I am also aware of the QB's are not sure fire, hence I think it is a chance he passes on all of them and goes with a vet at QB, trades down grabs his OL and Dee guys and wins that way. But even then there is a huge advantage going with a FA vet as opposed to sending multiple picks to KC. Not sure I would rather have Keenum, Bradford, or Cousins than Smith anyway.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Shields68

They traded for Brock because they were getting draft picks to take on his contract. If not for the picks they could still find away to spend the money. If the goal is to win they are a ton a FA's that they can spend the money on. But my point is the draft picks and the possible players they represent are worth more then the money at this point.

I disagree about the draft picks being worth more than money at this stage. The Cleveland Browns have HAD draft picks. Lots of them. Lots of 1sts. Lots of 2nds. Lots of low round picks. They've had picks galore, and it got them 0-16.

At some point you have to draw a line with regards to the number of draft picks. It's fine to have one year with a ****ton. Maybe two. When every year you're just selling off shit and collecting picks, you're only getting ROOKIES through that process.

Like it or not, to build a team, you need veterans. You depend on them. It's impossible to have a team without veteran players. Notice I didn't say "brokedicks." I said veteran players who know the job they're doing each and every time. You have to have a base core of players to rely upon. If everybody on the freakin team is learning as they go and developing, you never find out what you actually have in those players, and in many cases (particularly with QBs) the poor quality of the surrounding team and environment negatively impacts what they can actually become in the NFL.

You can't just say, "Let's keep all these ****ing draft picks we got because we're really bad!" Cleveland already drafted a buttload of dudes last year. They've done so in recent years prior to last season as well.

You have to actually ****ing build something, and to build something you need young talent AND guys who know what the hell they're doing.

Dorsey totally knows this, and you can bet your ass he's going to be wheeling and dealing those draft picks in many and various ways.

[Shields68]

Originally Posted by RealSNR

I disagree about the draft picks being worth more than money at this stage. The Cleveland Browns have HAD draft picks. Lots of them. Lots of 1sts. Lots of 2nds. Lots of low round picks. They've had picks galore, and it got them 0-16.

At some point you have to draw a line with regards to the number of draft picks. It's fine to have one year with a ****ton. Maybe two. When every year you're just selling off shit and collecting picks, you're only getting ROOKIES through that process.

Like it or not, to build a team, you need veterans. You depend on them. It's impossible to have a team without veteran players. Notice I didn't say "brokedicks." I said veteran players who know the job they're doing each and every time. You have to have a base core of players to rely upon. If everybody on the freakin team is learning as they go and developing, you never find out what you actually have in those players, and in many cases (particularly with QBs) the poor quality of the surrounding team and environment negatively impacts what they can actually become in the NFL.

You can't just say, "Let's keep all these ****ing draft picks we got because we're really bad!" Cleveland already drafted a buttload of dudes last year. They've done so in recent years prior to last season as well.

You have to actually ****ing build something, and to build something you need young talent AND guys who know what the hell they're doing.

Dorsey totally knows this, and you can bet your ass he's going to be wheeling and dealing those draft picks in many and various ways.

Meh, that is why they brought Dorsey in, his background is in scouting. The moneyball guys in the past traded all the good players, added draft picks and really intentionally lost to get higher pick (which is what the fan base is really upset about). They did not make the wisest draft choices. That is what Dorsey is going to fix. That is his background that is what he does best.

If he does not want all the picks this year, he is not going to waste them on Smith who will not resign (if the situation is a position battle with a 1st pick in the Draft) he will trade down for future picks. Smith wants to play. He will sign in 2019 in a place where he is a clear starter. If Cleveland has Rosen etc. he will not be a clear starter and won't sign.

No question Dorsey will try and I believe be successful at bringing in vets who have won other places. He has a 100 million to work with If Washington does not tag Cousins that will be an easy call.

I have no problem with going the Smith route (though if they can get Keenum or Cousins without giving up picks all the better) , I just do not think they burn a 1st on a QB if they go that route. Too many holes and the draft and young talent is what they need. If Smith is your QB for the next 3 years then I would rather have the top CB/OL then one of the QB's.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Shields68

They traded for Brock because they were getting draft picks to take on his contract. If not for the picks they could still find away to spend the money. If the goal is to win they are a ton a FA's that they can spend the money on. But my point is the draft picks and the possible players they represent are worth more then the money at this point. If Smith was a FA sure they would look at signing him, but he is not the chiefs are going to want a 2nd and probably another pick as well. Smith is going to get his money and he will get that money somewhere where he is going to play.

I also do not think the team is a dire as you sound. Sure they can not have a 1 win season again. But regardless I do not think Dorsey is going to be swayed. He has been involved with building winners and is going to make what he believes is the correct choice, not because of the past history of drafting Manziel or the prior GM's were idiots. I am also aware of the QB's are not sure fire, hence I think it is a chance he passes on all of them and goes with a vet at QB, trades down grabs his OL and Dee guys and wins that way. But even then there is a huge advantage going with a FA vet as opposed to sending multiple picks to KC. Not sure I would rather have Keenum, Bradford, or Cousins than Smith anyway.

I'm not underestimating the talent. I think they could build a winner around Alex Smith in year 1. I dont think Alex Smith ever takes you far into the playoffs. But he's a great guy to stabilize the franchise in a hurry.

I don't think Dorsey wants a long term retread. I think he wants to build around a qbotf while stabilizing the franchise. Trading for Smith and drafting a top 5 qb allows you to do both. I think you're downplaying how big of a risk it is to roll with a top 5 qb and fail. That would be career suicide for Dorsey, Jackson, and haley. And Cleveland has the obscene number of picks where they can actually afford to do that while overpaying for Smith.

The osweiler trade wasn't just about picks. It was also about a salary floor and also because unspent money is basically wasted dead money. They will run into that same situation this year. So why not overpay Alex Smith if you have to burn the money anyway.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by Titty Meat

Sign Cousins draft Barkley. That team will be tough.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's what they do.