Busting 4 myths about the Kansas City Chiefs defense

[Lzen]

Busting 4 myths about the Kansas City Chiefs defense (it’s not all Bob Sutton)

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/...all-bob-sutton

Sometimes you hear something that you’re not sure is true, and you just shrug and move on with your life. At least, that’s what you do if you’re a healthy human being. If you’re not, you obsessively research until you’ve dug into the truth of the matter. Unfortunately for me (and perhaps fortunately for you), I fall into the latter camp.

There’s a lot of talk about the defense right now, and deservedly so. After all, the pass defense looked quite poor against the Raiders merely a week after the run defense looked like a sieve against the Steelers. That’s... less than ideal. The Chiefs hung 30 on the Raiders but it wasn’t enough to win, and the defense wasn’t able to stop the Raiders from traveling 80 yards in under two minutes (well, with all the stoppages it was more like 20, but whatever) and scoring the game winning touchdown on Thursday.

When stuff like that happens, people are going to talk. And that’s what has happened. A lot of talk about the defense against Oakland has been based around a few key points........

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

When you have 3 guys covering 2 receivers in the same area of the field and they can't even tip the damn pass, no scheme is going to fix that.

When you call bracket coverage on a guy and he STILL gets open 20 yards downfield in 2.5 seconds, no scheme is going to fix that.

Players have to play.

Sutton has been viewed as a quality coach because his players have always made plays. Now they aren't.

And don't understate the role that Sutton played in putting those players in the position to make those plays. Sutton's done good work in his time here and I don't think he suddenly forgot how to coach.

I think Sutton's doing the same good but not amazing job he's always done - he's a fine defensive coordinator. But like you said, there's nothing he can do to prevent the fact that Sorensen couldn't manage to tip a pass that hung in the air for 12 seconds. And he can't help it if Murray or Parker get juked out of their shorts.

And it's not as though he can give EVERYONE help. There are 11 guys out there and at some point, someone's just going to have to win a 1 on 1 matchup. All too often, our guys aren't doing it.

This isn't like when Fleming got hung out there to get murdered by Manning a couple years ago - he's pulling every lever he has and desperately trying to hide the shortcomings of a number of guys on the field. There are just more holes in the dam than he has fingers to plug them with right now.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Said the same thing on gameday. The defense actually did their job forcing a three-and-out late in the 4th. Offense has with ball with 4 minutes on the clock and a 6-point lead. We do it right there and Oakland doesn't even get another possession. Or if they do, it's with at least a 9-point cushion.

I think it's playcall more than Alex. Either way, missed opportunity to put it away.

Agreed - Andy tried to sit on the ball with an interior line that just wasn't working. RRPP wasn't the way to go, especially with a relatively inexperienced WR corps. The margin for error was damn slight and when Smith and (IIRC) Robinson weren't on the same page on that third down play, it was all over but the tears.

That said, Andy was damned if he did, damned if he didn't to some degree. He knows how much heat he takes for being a bad clock manager. The first down run was fine play; maybe you get 8 and set yourself up extremely well. But on 2nd and 10, I'd have liked to see a screen to Kelce as a quality compromise position; a play that's likely to connect and keep the clock running and may break bigger. That said, 6 yards on 2nd down wasn't exactly a massive failure so even that playcall was okay. Shit, had he run the ball on 3rd and 4 he could've taken it to the 2 minute warning, IIRC. So there's an argument to be made that he wasn't conservative enough.

On 2 of the 3 plays we saw more execution error. Could he have been more aggressive? Sure...but less aggressive may have yielded a victory as well. And the plays he did call were plenty defensible, if not exactly what all of us would've chosen.

The guys on the field just didn't close out those final 4 minutes like they needed to. And the defense simply didn't bother to show up much at all.

EDIT: I mixed up drive endings; that 3 and out ended in a sack and the clock kept running. I suspect that was partially on purpose because Reid probably told Smith that if the play isn't there, take the sack and keep the clock rolling. On that play, the Raiders guys stepped up and won the battles that the Chiefs defense simply didn't win far too often that day.

[T-post Tom]

Originally Posted by kysirsoze

I'm sorry. Bottom line is if the secondary can't cover for at least 2 seconds, it doesn't matter what Sutton does. Scheme only goes so far.

Bull crap. It absolutely does matter what the coordinator does. Just for example, any time you drop your Premier pass-rusher into coverage on an obvious passing down... You have negatively impacted the odds that your team has a positive outcome on the play.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by T-post Tom

Bull crap. It absolutely does matter what the coordinator does.

What the hell else can he do to keep Parker from eating shit on a poorly disguised play fake? To get Sorensen to actually bat away a ball? Did he need to put 4 guys on Jared Cook?

Seriously, this is no different than the dialogue after Smith shit all over the field against the Steelers and people were mad at Reid. Reid had a day that put another 150 yards and 3 TDs on the field - Smith just goddamn missed them.

Sutton's day probably took 150 yards and 2 TDs off the field if his guys could've just executed worth a shit. There were too many people failing at their jobs for Sutton to just solve it.

He needed a foundation to work from and it had to be more than "well, I guess Chris Jones has screwed up less than everyone else on the field today..."

His players failed.

[T-post Tom]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

What the hell else can he do to keep Parker from eating shit on a poorly disguised play fake? To get Sorensen to actually bat away a ball? Did he need to put 4 guys on Jared Cook?

Seriously, this is no different than the dialogue after Smith shit all over the field against the Steelers and people were mad at Reid. Reid had a day that put another 150 yards and 3 TDs on the field - Smith just goddamn missed them.

Sutton's day probably took 150 yards and 2 TDs off the field if his guys could've just executed worth a shit. There were too many people failing at their jobs for Sutton to just solve it.

He needed a foundation to work from and it had to be more than "well, I guess Chris Jones has screwed up less than everyone else on the field today..."

His players failed.

Yes the players get most of the blame. But as I said before, a better performance by the defensive coaching staff and either one of the two losses could have been a win. Part of the coaching staff's job is to know their players and their players' strengths and weaknesses.

Justin Houston should not be covering tight ends on obvious passing plays. Blitzing is a legitament strategy in football. Putting pressure on the quarterback is not a bad thing in football. Sutton seems to have forgotten this.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by T-post Tom

Yes the players get most of the blame. But as I said before, a better performance by the defensive coaching staff and either one of the two losses could have been a win. Part of the coaching staff's job is to know their players and their players' strengths and weaknesses.

Justin Houston should not be covering tight ends on obvious passing plays. Blitzing is a legitament strategy in football. Putting pressure on the quarterback is not a bad thing in football. Sutton seems to have forgotten this.

You didn't read the article, did you?

[Easy 6]

Blaming individuals like Sutton, or individual units within the D simply doesn't ring true for me... its the ultimate team game, and they all get a slice of the blame

D line - Bailey and Logan clearly need upgraded, Jones has to be more consistent

LBs - DJ has finally hit the wall, Ragland is new, Houston is only one man, Ford is too streaky even when he is 'on', Zombo is, well... Zombo

Secondary - Mitchells shortcomings are being exposed, same for Sorensen, Parker is a liability in run support, Gaines confidence is shot

There is no shortage of blame for all them, then throw in Berry being out and Tamba being MIA... and this is what you get, we're just not as deep or talented as many of us previously thought

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

There are 11 guys out there and at some point, someone's just going to have to win a 1 on 1 matchup. All too often, our guys aren't doing it.

There are just more holes in the dam than he has fingers to plug them with right now.

Exactly.

[RunKC]

90% of the time when Carr got the ball out quickly he was picking on Gaines. That ruins everything. Negates the pass rush, negates good coverage by other players, negates gap assignment.

It sucks because Gaines used to be a really good athlete who could at least stay with fast receivers in the slot. Since his ACL went out, he's lost it. He's done as an NFL CB.

Really think that if Nelson plays as good as he did last year, you'll see much better results from this defense.

[KCUnited]

Very insightful article. To the point where it made me put down my torch and turn the pitchfork on myself.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by RunKC

90% of the time when Carr got the ball out quickly he was picking on Gaines. That ruins everything. Negates the pass rush, negates good coverage by other players, negates gap assignment.

It sucks because Gaines used to be a really good athlete who could at least stay with fast receivers in the slot. Since his ACL went out, he's lost it. He's done as an NFL CB.

Really think that if Nelson plays as good as he did last year, you'll see much better results from this defense.

And there was a little bad luck involved as well.

Nobody wins every time - even the best pass rushers get stood up more often than they don't. And when Houston, Ford and Jones would win their matchup at the line, that was a time that the coverage shit the bed so badly that it didn't matter.

And on plays that coverage held up alright and Carr needed time to scan the field, those were the plays where the DL simply didn't win the matchups.

I don't think this is a good personnel group. I don't think this will be a good defense. But I don't think they're a '950 yards in 2 games' bad defense. I think they had a combination of bad matchups vs. Pittsburgh (that team owns us; we simply cannot deal with Bell) and alternating bad plays vs. Oakland.

As was noted, football is the ultimate team sport and sometimes when one group fails, another group is able to bail them out. It seemed like last week, when one group failed, the other group simply wasn't there to save them. And when one group did it's job, you could count on another group not doing theirs.

I don't think most weeks are going to have that kind of bad matching of failures, if I'm making any sense.

The second key will be a problem I always attribute to Eli Manning. When he was in an early season funk several years ago he said something along the lines of "There are going to be times that I'm bad, but when I'm bad, I can't be this bad..."

There are going to be times that the coverage fails, but when they fail they can't fail that badly. On those plays where Houston or Jones are just wrecking guys at the line, the coverage doesn't even need to be good - it just needs to be less bad than that. And on plays where Carr is getting 5 seconds to scan the field, the pass rush didn't need to be good, it just can't give Carr time to crochet a onesie before letting the ball go.

So a little better luck and a little higher floor on their bad plays will make a fairly big difference.

[T-post Tom]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

You didn't read the article, did you?

Originally Posted by T-post Tom

"Ultimately, Sutton has a few things he needs to improve (like the safety usage, Houston’s usage and the placement of the corners in relation to the line of scrimmage)."

7 games in and he hasn't figured this out yet? Seems like a pretty serious shortcoming for a tenured NFL defensive coordinator.

84 pts in last 3 games. Defensive coaches and players all sucking ass.

[WhiteWhale]

It reinforces what I've been saying.

It's not Sutton who sucks.

It's our secondary that sucks.

Get. Better. Players.

It's not that Sutton is blameless, but Sorenson is not good. Gaines is not good. Murray might someday be good, but right now he's not there yet. Mitchell is, at best, passable... but he leads the team in tackles for a reason.

The idea "When your secondary sucks you need to blitz more!" is the worst idea being passed around this place recently. That doesn't HIDE a bad secondary. It exposes it.

Again, getting Nelson back is big. Not because he's great, but because he's significantly better than our other CB's.

[WhiteWhale]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

There's only so much draft/FA capital to spread around and while the team has been focused on re-building the offense, there's little question that the defense has atrophied.

That said, a staff that was able to get several productive players in the 4th round and later on offense sure as hell seems to be worse at finding similar value on defense; there's little denying that.

The defensive personnel needs an upgrade in a big way. Whether thats internal or not remains to be seen, but it would be hard for Buddy Ryan, Dick LeBeau or [insert your defensive wizard of choice here] to have a ton of success with these guys playing the way they are.

Meh, I would argue the defense has atrophied due to lack of success in scouting and drafting, not lack of effort.

Kc had drafted plenty of defensive backs. Many were felt to be strong picks by draftniks when they were made, but simply didn't work for whatever reason.

[O.city]

Berry getting hurt threw gas on the secondary. Him being there allowed everyone to do the job they were good at, nothing more. Take him about, and Nelson who's a good nickel corner missing hurts.

Same thing happened to Seattle without earl.

But I don't think the defense is this bad. I don't think it'll ever be elite, but it should be average to good.