Dorsey vs Pioli, What Say You Now?

[Meatloaf]

It's been a rather interesting couple of weeks. I think it started with the Houston situation where a bunch of you folks felt that Dorsey was a doofus because he didn't lock Houston up last year. Then, I heard, Dorsey sucked because he overpaid Bowe. Then, at least initially, the sky was falling because he didn't wrap up Hudson last year. Then, he had the audacity to sign Mauga and Avant.

Now, we hear that guys are cutting their salaries in order to play for (can you believe it) the Chiefs!

Wasn't much of that happening back when Scooter was chasing candy wrappers, shutting blinds and placing the entire organization on Matt Cassel's rather narrow shoulders.

So, I ask, what say you now? (This is where you can actually say GOOD things about the guys running this outfit now.)

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by RunKC

You clearly don't have a clue how free agency is supposed to work if you think that

It's not hard to see a team lose more than it gains.

Hopefully this offseason ends like it started and we change all that...

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

I get that. But like i mentioned earlier, Dorsey turned the culture around. Eventually, That will lead to more wins and playoff wins especially. I expect this team to compete for the playoffs every year now. I never got that feeling under Pioli, except for one year.

I don't know about Dorsey but the players seem to love playing for Reid...

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

His #1 overall pick is wandering towards Brian Jozwiak territory, Dee Ford had a shit first year, and he gave up two second rounders and 17 million/year for Alex Smith who is asked to "not lose" games.

I believe his entire 2013/4 FA class has already been cut or is no longer on the team and he was unable to secure extensions with the two young, cost-controlled players whose salaries were up in this offseason, one of whom was signed by a division rival.

You'll find no bigger fan of Jeremy Maclin than me. If the search function on here worked you could find posts of me advocating for the Chiefs drafting him at #3 overall in 2009, but I remain unconvinced that Alex Smith can make use of his talent.

I'm also seriously concerned about the continued decline of the offensive line, and I think that people are foolishly conflating our pass ranking with great secondary play when most of it, I believe, was due to the pressure exerted on the QB by Hali, Poe, and Houston.

Huge upgrades: QB (even though I don't like Smith), RB depth, WR depth, TE, 2 safeties, Gaines (#2 or nickel),
Good replacement: #1 corner, Kicker, KR/PR
Adequate depth: DE, nickel/dime CB,

Downgrades: OL

Top 3 defense even while missing 2 pro bowlers and tons of injuries to our secondary. We have a very deep running game. Could be the best receiving corps we've had in years, which is even deeper because we have TE targets and a utility option in DAT. And much as we may downplay it, last year we had to contend with 2 very surprising subtractions to the OL in Stephenson and Allen. Even our special teams was a surprise improvement, as Santos and DAT were upgrades over who they replaced.

We've fallen short on OL and ILB. That's it. I'm not crazy about the QB but I still think that was more Reid/Hunt's call. And while I hated the first year's cap management, they've managed the cap extraordinarily well the last 2 years, including excellent moves last year that may have gifted us 4 draft picks. Because of that, after we get past this year, our cap looks really good.

We haven't done anything sexy. But this team has gotten better by a lot across the board.

[Snapplez]

This is a laughable question. Scooter is a goddamn natural disaster.

Dorsey has been extremely impressive this offseason.

[Red Dawg]

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

meaningless bullshit

No it isn't. Coaches wanting not wanting be in our organization and FA not considering us is not bullshit. Did you see what we had for coaches?

[Big Tedd]

Dorsey and Reid have totally turned the Chiefs in the right direction.

I agree with most of you. There really isn't much of a debate here.

The Chiefs were a friggin dumpster fire when they took over. I had no hope at all. Now we actually have a team that plays hard and smart. A team that players want to be on!

These guys have a long way to go to build the Chiefs in to a Superbowl contender, but the first two years have been exactly what the franchise needed. I have positive feelings about our beloved Chiefs for the first time in about a decade now.

[DaneMcCloud]

20-12 vs. 9-23

Duh

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Big Tedd

Dorsey and Reid have totally turned the Chiefs in the right direction.

I agree with most of you. There really isn't much of a debate here.

The Chiefs were a friggin dumpster fire when they took over. I had no hope at all. Now we actually have a team that plays hard and smart. A team that players want to be on!

These guys have a long way to go to build the Chiefs in to a Superbowl contender, but the first two years have been exactly what the franchise needed. I have positive feelings about our beloved Chiefs for the first time in about a decade now.

I actually don't think the Chiefs have a long way to go, if we're talking about a supporting cast to support the QB. 1 or 2 upgrades at OL and this is an excellent supporting cast for QB.

So again, I don't think Smith was really Dorsey's call. But if we're talking about building a team around the QB... if you told someone you'd have to build a top defense, an elite running game, and give him a quality TE target, I think most would say that's about right. If they upgrade the OL to average, in my opinion, there's no excuse for Smith not to take this team far.

[xztop123]

We would go entire quarters without moving the ball past midfield under Haley/Pioli.

Reid scripts up an opening drive TD more often than not

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Huge upgrades: QB (even though I don't like Smith), RB depth, WR depth, TE, 2 safeties, Gaines (#2 or nickel),
Good replacement: #1 corner, Kicker, KR/PR
Adequate depth: DE, nickel/dime CB,

Downgrades: OL

Top 3 defense even while missing 2 pro bowlers and tons of injuries to our secondary. We have a very deep running game. Could be the best receiving corps we've had in years, which is even deeper because we have TE targets and a utility option in DAT. And much as we may downplay it, last year we had to contend with 2 very surprising subtractions to the OL in Stephenson and Allen. Even our special teams was a surprise improvement, as Santos and DAT were upgrades over who they replaced.

We've fallen short on OL and ILB. That's it. I'm not crazy about the QB but I still think that was more Reid/Hunt's call. And while I hated the first year's cap management, they've managed the cap extraordinarily well the last 2 years, including excellent moves last year that may have gifted us 4 draft picks. Because of that, after we get past this year, our cap looks really good.

We haven't done anything sexy. But this team has gotten better by a lot across the board.

How could you claim that they managed the cap excellently with a straight face? They had to eat dead money on the deals with Bowe, Mays, and Walker, the Mauga signing was horrible, and DeVito is wildly overpaid.

Also, lumping "OL" in as a single position is disingenuous. The Chiefs are worse at every single position on the OL than they were in 2013. Every single one.

Dorsey has proven he can build a mediocre team. He hasn't yet proven he can build a good one.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Meatloaf

Floppy, Floppy, Floppy, you're taking this stupid question way too literally. The point of the thread was to allow some of you boys to actually say something good about Dorsey. Perhaps I, in a most unusual moment, misstated the title of the thread and that generated said stupid comments. So rip me a new one.

Nonetheless, I forgive.

Now, let's move on and be thankful that we have Mr Mediocre (your words?) running this thing rather than Scooter.

Dorsey seems nice

[Chiefshrink]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Both are 0-1 in the only thing that matters.

Precisely. Let's revisit this topic in 2yrs.

[Brock]

Originally Posted by xztop123

We would go entire quarters without moving the ball past midfield under Haley/Pioli.

Reid scripts up an opening drive TD more often than not

Has nothing to do with Dorsey. Everybody knows reid's a pretty good coach.

When I read dreck about how "Dorsey transformed the culture", it makes me chuckle. I'm sure he's a nice, competent fellow, but it's pretty easy to have people in the workplace rave about you when the guy you replaced ran the workplace like 1973 East Berlin.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

How could you claim that they managed the cap excellently with a straight face? They had to eat dead money on the deals with Bowe, Mays, and Walker, the Mauga signing was horrible, and DeVito is wildly overpaid.

Also, lumping "OL" in as a single position is disingenuous. The Chiefs are worse at every single position on the OL than they were in 2013. Every single one.

Dorsey has proven he can build a mediocre team. He hasn't yet proven he can build a good one.

I said I didn't like their cap management year 1 which includes bowe and devito. Nitpicking over about 10m for 3 players for 1 year of play plus dead money to cut? That's the definition of picky considering they shed well over 50m in contracts the past 2 years.

While everyone insisted we sign Schwartz, Albert plus add desean and Byrd, the Chiefs added I think less than 15m in contracts minus Alex Smith. It helped clean our cap big time and probably landed us 4 comp picks. This year, he's set to shed a lot of bad contracts without taking nearly the massive hit in dead money that was expected.

If you're going position by position, fine. We upgraded at two safety spots, 2 corner, DE, 2 rb, Fb, te, k, kr/pr, wr 1, possibly wr 2 (wilson) , utility wr, qb. We have true depth at almost all of these positions.

We downgraded at center (maybe), left tackle, and right guard (maybe). We stayed flat at olb and punter, replaced a good 1 cb with a good 1cb. We didn't add depth at olb, nt, or OL.

The plusses outweigh the minuses by a ton. And that's including depth. That's not even including special teams.

[Trivers]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I said I didn't like their cap management year 1 which includes bowe and devito. Nitpicking over about 10m for 3 players for 1 year of play plus dead money to cut? That's the definition of picky considering they shed well over 50m in contracts the past 2 years.

While everyone insisted we sign Schwartz, Albert plus add desean and Byrd, the Chiefs added I think less than 15m in contracts minus Alex Smith. It helped clean our cap big time and probably landed us 4 comp picks. This year, he's set to shed a lot of bad contracts without taking nearly the massive hit in dead money that was expected.

If you're going position by position, fine. We upgraded at two safety spots, 2 corner, DE, 2 rb, Fb, te, k, kr/pr, wr 1, possibly wr 2 (wilson) , utility wr, qb. We have true depth at almost all of these positions.

We downgraded at center (maybe), left tackle, and right guard (maybe). We stayed flat at olb and punter, replaced a good 1 cb with a good 1cb. We didn't add depth at olb, nt, or OL.

The plusses outweigh the minuses by a ton. And that's including depth. That's not even including special teams.

/thread

nice write-up.