Chiefs The Film Room aka formerdb: "Chiefs: Quarterbacks and the Coaching" - Page 3

rico · 10-30-2012, 05:49 PM

http://echointhehead.blogspot.com/20....html?spref=tw

Quarterbacking:

When looking at a QB I strip away the Heisman's, MVP's, Super Bowl's...and just look at how they throw a ball. Natural talent like Peyton Manning is scattered throughout the NFL. There is nothing special about how he throws a football from point A to B...a lot of better balls came out of Jamarcus Russell's arm.

If you just watched Peyton Manning it's is not a pretty site. But there isn't a more efficient player on the move than Peyton Manning. The big key with Manning is he can get to his drops quicker than any player in the NFL even at his size. Meaning he has the ability to throw before a defense can diagnose it's a pass.

Sometimes something as simple as that can turn a rather above average QB into a great one. The elite QB's in the NFL aren't the elite talents in Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Manning...rather they are the most efficient passers in the NFL. All 4 QB's are versatile enough passers to run the style of offense they run, not based on natural talent rather touch/timing.

If you go out to the yard and toss a football from 10 yards, 20 yards, and 30 yards each throw would be different. The mechanics of those throws will be slightly different. The amount of force will be different as well. Scouting a QB is simply identifying how a QB accounts for it with ability and mechanics.

When pressed I often say that Joe Flacco is my favorite QB in the NFL. Flacco can go the furthest downfield without breaking his mechanics. From 30-40 yards Flacco can still manipulate good touch on the football...personally that control at that distance is something I appreciate over any other passer. Every QB breaks mechanics to launch a ball. It's typically where that break happens is what determines functional arm strength to me.

Stanzi:

I don't love the natural talent but I love the technique. His balance/arm efficiency/functional strength/release point all in my opinion are near elite. Stanzi has the tools to be one of the more efficient passers in the league. The issue with Stanzi goes back to that "break" in mechanics when passing.

Stanzi's mind as a QB doesn't match his skill set. Stanzi plays a power style with a efficient skill set. For me I still love the prospect but at this point his style of play will never allow him to tap into what he can actually excel in. As much as I love Stanzi as an intermediate passer, he is too aggressive and often break excellent mechanics in favor of more aggressive reads.

If anyone ask me who I wanted to start for the Chiefs it was Ricky Stanzi. I wasn't certain he was a better QB than Cassel or Quinn, but I was certain he was a more talented passer. Ultimately the amount of "passes" a QB has determines the versatility of the passing game. A team can have Jerry Rice but if the Quarterback can't beat a cover 3 then it doesn't matter...this team is capped on the amount of routes they can call due to the QB.

Daboll/Cassel:

In the preseason I stressed that Cassel looked better because of the passes he was throwing. Stanzi utilized a completely different set of reads. Stanzi's reads had a higher degree of difficulty. To me every completion or attempt isn't equal. How a QB missed the post on a cover 3 is a lot more intriguing than the QB hitting a slant vs. cover 2.

That's the key issue of the season, the reason for the collapse. Daboll and Crennel picked the wrong QB's to run this offense. They picked the guys that were attempting and hitting the easy reads in the preseason over the guy that was missing on the more aggressive reads. It's basic...if you're playbook has a bunch of deep routes, then get the QB that throws those routes.

What's happening is simple. Because we can't threaten deep teams just bracket underneath. It's a simple adjustment that the Chiefs don't have the ability to get teams out of. In my opinion Quinn nor Cassel have that ability. But that shouldn't be what is derailing this team. Long ago Daboll had to figure his player out.

Daboll was applauding Cassel with hitting Baldwin on a fade vs. cover 1...hitting the TE on a skinny post vs. cover 2. Essentially every team has taken those routes away from this offense. It comes as no shock that we aren't having success passing. The timing is not there because Cassel wasn't forced to work on the timing throughout preseason. Felt nervous that we had a coaching staff that lacked vision.

This offenses talents is suited for movement. Albert, Asomoah, Lilja, Allen, Charles, Moeaki are all suited to play in space...with a few of them being among the more athletic players at their positions in the NFL. Players that are suited to play horizontal are being forced to play vertically. Most are making the transition but our Cassel/Quinn don't have the ability to.

What has changed schematically in Kansas City is simple. We went from a team that ran on the perimeter to a team that runs in the interior. We went from a team that threw a bunch of screens, hooks, hitches, slants to one that uses more vertical routes. For the most part every facet is transitioning to the changes outside of the Quarterback.

Final Thought

Stanzi utilizes the reads that this offense is designed to use. Theoretically those vertical routes are supposed to threaten the safety. Mathematically the threat of the pass should account for an additional defender. Depending on the range of the passing game determines the depth of the secondary. Currently the passing game can't remove a defender in the run game.

Because of the lack of the vertical passing attack defenders are flooded in the intermediate zone...hence why so many deflections are being intercepted. The threat of a vertical passing game removes Chargers safety Eric Weddle and the pick on the deflection doesn't happen. Currently because of Quarterback talent this offense is unable to force that adjustment making our intermediate reads a lower percentage.

Daboll has to understand that...instead of waiting for an adjustment from defenses that won't come. He is going to have to adjust if these are his options at QB. I still believe Cassel can serve a purpose, but he can't run this offense. Daboll has to figure out a way to make his QB better or he will handcuff this team to a bad marriage of natural talent and scheme.

Change has to happen...if Daboll doesn't change he has to go...if Cassel doesn't change then the scheme has to...if the scheme doesn't change then the QB has to. The status quo is flawed and is getting in this teams way.

Hammock Parties · 10-30-2012, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaWolf

Cassel sucks, but what we are seeing here from him this season as well as from the rest of the team are players that are matched up with coaches who have no clue how to even squeeze out a competitive half of football from these guys...

That's what happens when you hire guys simply because they're part of the Patriot Tree.

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-30-2012, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

I still would love to see Stanzi for the rest of the season.

Me, too.

Guaranteed 1-15 and no more Stanzi talk.

**Easy 6** · 10-30-2012, 08:26 PM

Abbreviated version: Romeo sucks for letting it happen, Daboll sucks and is complacent and has no strategic vision for the job, Cassel sucks because he doesnt have ANY of the needed qualities to be a successful starter and is more than happy to play it safe.

More abbreviated version: they all have to go.

**BossChief** · 10-30-2012, 08:32 PM

Translation:

Stanzi wants to throw deep more and that will hurt him and if he is to become an effecient passer, he needs to make the 10-25 yard passes his bread and butter.

Cassel is just fine keeping it under 10 yards and that hurts the offense in lots of indirect ways

**SAUTO** · 10-30-2012, 08:35 PM

I kind of took it more as Stanzi doesn't understand his limitations
Posted via Mobile Device

durtyrute · 10-30-2012, 08:39 PM

HIS NAME IS RICKY MUTHA****IN STANZI!

Psyko Tek · 10-30-2012, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

It's "mind boggling" fyi

****in' st00pit donk n00b

**BossChief** · 10-30-2012, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

I kind of took it more as Stanzi doesn't understand his limitations
Posted via Mobile Device

Thats what I've been saying since day one and it's valid and a double edged sword. He has the same mentality Brett Favre did that he thinks he can fit any pass into any window and tries to be overly aggressive with his reads. It's why a lot of us called him Brett Favre light.

That same trait would give us a lot of 3 and 4 touchdown games that he also throws 2 picks in. He can definitely win games for you, but on the other hand can also lose them for you, too.

It's the same stuff he did as a junior, but went away from as a senior...showing he is coachable and has the ability to not make those difficult reads when it starts to hurt the team.

We haven't lead in a single game yet, what could it possibly hurt to put the kid out there and let him make some mistakes and see how he bounces back...it's not like Cassel doesn't turn the ball over in bunches...at least Stanzi would make some plays.

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-30-2012, 08:54 PM

Come on, how can anyone take these articles seriously?

He used to post here when the site was started and at the old Star forum. He's always been a good dude.

But trying to glean more from that is ludicrous.

Hoover · 10-30-2012, 09:04 PM

We are idiots for not seeing what Stanzi can do. This team sucks ass, time to see what we have in the garage.

**RealSNR** · 10-30-2012, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Come on, how can anyone take these articles seriously?

He used to post here when the site was started and at the old Star forum. He's always been a good dude.

But trying to glean more from that is ludicrous.

Who's trying to glean anything? This is a sound analysis.

He says what Romeo doesn't have a ****ing clue about.

This was like watching a Harry Plinket review of our coaches, QBs, and why the 2012 Chiefs are such an abortion.

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-30-2012, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoover

We are idiots for not seeing what Stanzi can do. This team sucks ass, time to see what we have in the garage.

"We"?

So, you think that the coaches, GM and owner are ignoring his amazing play during the minicamps, training camp and daily practices?

**Reaper16** · 10-30-2012, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Come on, how can anyone take these articles seriously?

He used to post here when the site was started and at the old Star forum. He's always been a good dude.

But trying to glean more from that is ludicrous.

Then what are any of us doing here?

**1ChiefsDan** · 10-30-2012, 09:20 PM

I like to shit in a ziploc bags and nail them to random doors.

Hammock Parties · 10-30-2012, 09:22 PM

It would be cool if they're getting ready to start Stanzi 11/18.

Don't want to rush him in against Pitt.

10-30-2012, 05:49 PM
rico ON CP YOU’RE SOMEBODY’S BITCH! Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Da SEI Casino cash: $4344809	The Film Room aka formerdb: "Chiefs: Quarterbacks and the Coaching" http://echointhehead.blogspot.com/20....html?spref=tw Quarterbacking: When looking at a QB I strip away the Heisman's, MVP's, Super Bowl's...and just look at how they throw a ball. Natural talent like Peyton Manning is scattered throughout the NFL. There is nothing special about how he throws a football from point A to B...a lot of better balls came out of Jamarcus Russell's arm. If you just watched Peyton Manning it's is not a pretty site. But there isn't a more efficient player on the move than Peyton Manning. The big key with Manning is he can get to his drops quicker than any player in the NFL even at his size. Meaning he has the ability to throw before a defense can diagnose it's a pass. Sometimes something as simple as that can turn a rather above average QB into a great one. The elite QB's in the NFL aren't the elite talents in Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Manning...rather they are the most efficient passers in the NFL. All 4 QB's are versatile enough passers to run the style of offense they run, not based on natural talent rather touch/timing. If you go out to the yard and toss a football from 10 yards, 20 yards, and 30 yards each throw would be different. The mechanics of those throws will be slightly different. The amount of force will be different as well. Scouting a QB is simply identifying how a QB accounts for it with ability and mechanics. When pressed I often say that Joe Flacco is my favorite QB in the NFL. Flacco can go the furthest downfield without breaking his mechanics. From 30-40 yards Flacco can still manipulate good touch on the football...personally that control at that distance is something I appreciate over any other passer. Every QB breaks mechanics to launch a ball. It's typically where that break happens is what determines functional arm strength to me. Stanzi: I don't love the natural talent but I love the technique. His balance/arm efficiency/functional strength/release point all in my opinion are near elite. Stanzi has the tools to be one of the more efficient passers in the league. The issue with Stanzi goes back to that "break" in mechanics when passing. Stanzi's mind as a QB doesn't match his skill set. Stanzi plays a power style with a efficient skill set. For me I still love the prospect but at this point his style of play will never allow him to tap into what he can actually excel in. As much as I love Stanzi as an intermediate passer, he is too aggressive and often break excellent mechanics in favor of more aggressive reads. If anyone ask me who I wanted to start for the Chiefs it was Ricky Stanzi. I wasn't certain he was a better QB than Cassel or Quinn, but I was certain he was a more talented passer. Ultimately the amount of "passes" a QB has determines the versatility of the passing game. A team can have Jerry Rice but if the Quarterback can't beat a cover 3 then it doesn't matter...this team is capped on the amount of routes they can call due to the QB. Daboll/Cassel: In the preseason I stressed that Cassel looked better because of the passes he was throwing. Stanzi utilized a completely different set of reads. Stanzi's reads had a higher degree of difficulty. To me every completion or attempt isn't equal. How a QB missed the post on a cover 3 is a lot more intriguing than the QB hitting a slant vs. cover 2. That's the key issue of the season, the reason for the collapse. Daboll and Crennel picked the wrong QB's to run this offense. They picked the guys that were attempting and hitting the easy reads in the preseason over the guy that was missing on the more aggressive reads. It's basic...if you're playbook has a bunch of deep routes, then get the QB that throws those routes. What's happening is simple. Because we can't threaten deep teams just bracket underneath. It's a simple adjustment that the Chiefs don't have the ability to get teams out of. In my opinion Quinn nor Cassel have that ability. But that shouldn't be what is derailing this team. Long ago Daboll had to figure his player out. Daboll was applauding Cassel with hitting Baldwin on a fade vs. cover 1...hitting the TE on a skinny post vs. cover 2. Essentially every team has taken those routes away from this offense. It comes as no shock that we aren't having success passing. The timing is not there because Cassel wasn't forced to work on the timing throughout preseason. Felt nervous that we had a coaching staff that lacked vision. This offenses talents is suited for movement. Albert, Asomoah, Lilja, Allen, Charles, Moeaki are all suited to play in space...with a few of them being among the more athletic players at their positions in the NFL. Players that are suited to play horizontal are being forced to play vertically. Most are making the transition but our Cassel/Quinn don't have the ability to. What has changed schematically in Kansas City is simple. We went from a team that ran on the perimeter to a team that runs in the interior. We went from a team that threw a bunch of screens, hooks, hitches, slants to one that uses more vertical routes. For the most part every facet is transitioning to the changes outside of the Quarterback. Final Thought Stanzi utilizes the reads that this offense is designed to use. Theoretically those vertical routes are supposed to threaten the safety. Mathematically the threat of the pass should account for an additional defender. Depending on the range of the passing game determines the depth of the secondary. Currently the passing game can't remove a defender in the run game. Because of the lack of the vertical passing attack defenders are flooded in the intermediate zone...hence why so many deflections are being intercepted. The threat of a vertical passing game removes Chargers safety Eric Weddle and the pick on the deflection doesn't happen. Currently because of Quarterback talent this offense is unable to force that adjustment making our intermediate reads a lower percentage. Daboll has to understand that...instead of waiting for an adjustment from defenses that won't come. He is going to have to adjust if these are his options at QB. I still believe Cassel can serve a purpose, but he can't run this offense. Daboll has to figure out a way to make his QB better or he will handcuff this team to a bad marriage of natural talent and scheme. Change has to happen...if Daboll doesn't change he has to go...if Cassel doesn't change then the scheme has to...if the scheme doesn't change then the QB has to. The status quo is flawed and is getting in this teams way.
Posts: 13,261

10-30-2012, 08:26 PM	#33
Easy 6 pie is never free Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: the drivers seat Casino cash: $3167775	Abbreviated version: Romeo sucks for letting it happen, Daboll sucks and is complacent and has no strategic vision for the job, Cassel sucks because he doesnt have ANY of the needed qualities to be a successful starter and is more than happy to play it safe. More abbreviated version: they all have to go.
Posts: 92,300

10-30-2012, 08:32 PM	#34
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $1364088	Translation: Stanzi wants to throw deep more and that will hurt him and if he is to become an effecient passer, he needs to make the 10-25 yard passes his bread and butter. Cassel is just fine keeping it under 10 yards and that hurts the offense in lots of indirect ways __________________ Dreams do come true... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=1407
Posts: 47,195

10-30-2012, 08:35 PM	#35
SAUTO Shit Join Date: Jun 2008 Casino cash: $10039067	I kind of took it more as Stanzi doesn't understand his limitations Posted via Mobile Device
Posts: 55,715

10-30-2012, 08:39 PM	#36
durtyrute MVP Join Date: Mar 2011 Casino cash: $7826085	HIS NAME IS RICKY MUTHA****IN STANZI!
Posts: 5,831

10-30-2012, 08:54 PM	#39
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	Come on, how can anyone take these articles seriously? He used to post here when the site was started and at the old Star forum. He's always been a good dude. But trying to glean more from that is ludicrous.
Posts: 88,960

10-30-2012, 09:04 PM	#40
Hoover Rufus Dawes Jr. Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $1158179	We are idiots for not seeing what Stanzi can do. This team sucks ass, time to see what we have in the garage.
Posts: 17,408

10-30-2012, 09:20 PM	#44
1ChiefsDan Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Beaverton, OR Casino cash: $10006847	I like to shit in a ziploc bags and nail them to random doors.
Posts: 2,486

10-30-2012, 09:22 PM	#45
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4150478	It would be cool if they're getting ready to start Stanzi 11/18. Don't want to rush him in against Pitt. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 279,776