Football John Abraham is a Patriot - Page 3

Mr. Laz · 03-15-2013, 02:33 PM

NFL Draft Insider ‏@NFLDraftInsider
I am told that DE John Abraham is now a New England Patriot.
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'Hamas' Jenkins · 03-16-2013, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shocked

Are you replying to me?

Who are these 20 DEs NE allegedly drafted that were bad?

Jake Becquette
Jermaine Cunningham
Brandon Deaderick
Ron Brace
Myron Pryor
Shawn Crable
Kareem Brown
Justin Rodgers
Ryan Claridge
Marquise Hill
Jeremy Mincey
Kade Weston
Darryl Richard
LeKevin Smith
Ethan Kelly

shocked · 03-16-2013, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

The Steelers have been among the league leaders consistently since the 90s.

The Ravens have been there for the last 12-13 years.

Meanwhile, the Patriots have floudered among middle of the pack to among the worst for the last 7-8 years.

Bellichick doesn't come close to matching either of those teams on the defensive side.

To his credit, he has done a much better job on the offensive side, overall.

Defensive ranking since 2000:

Code:

NE		PIT		BR
Pts		Pts		Pts
9		6		12
15		1		3
8		1		3
5		12		3
8		1		3
4		2		22
2		11		1
17		3		10
2		1		6
1		15		6
17		16		19
6		3		4
17		6		1
------------------------
Average:
				
8.53		6.0		7.15

Heh, I think that avatar is talking to you...

Dumbass!

milkman · 03-16-2013, 12:41 PM

I don't know where you found those numbers, but in the last 2 years I know that they finished no higher than 25th in team defense.

tk13 · 03-16-2013, 12:54 PM

I am pretty sure they were the worst defense to ever make it to the Super Bowl a couple years ago. They gave up a ton of yards. Part of that though is just how terrible the AFC has been as a whole. I don't think NE even beat a team with a winning record that year until Baltimore in the AFC title game.

shocked · 03-16-2013, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shocked

Are you replying to me?

Who are these 20 DEs NE allegedly drafted that were bad?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Jake Becquette
Jermaine Cunningham
Brandon Deaderick
Ron Brace
Myron Pryor
Shawn Crable
Kareem Brown
Justin Rodgers
Ryan Claridge
Marquise Hill
Jeremy Mincey
Kade Weston
Darryl Richard
LeKevin Smith
Ethan Kelly

1) You conveniently ignore Chandler Jones. He's the only 1st rd pick BB has used at DE. Even if we extend it to DT? The other 1sts were Seymour, Warren, Wilfork. Yeah, I'd say he did well.

2) Do you know what a Defensive End is? Because you only listed three of them (Deaderick, Mincey, Hill). The other 11 "DEs" were DTs or LBs.

2) Is there such a thing as a 6th/7th round bust? No. Stop being a dumbass. No teams cashes in on late picks on a frequent basis. So, 10 of your 14 "busts" were low picks.

3) I only see three 2s and a 3rd.....one one of whom (Hill) was an actual DE....

http://www.pro-football-reference.co.../nwe/draft.htm

Code:

Year	Rnd	Pick	               Pos
2003	7	243	Ethan Kelley	DT
2006	6	206	LeKevin Smith	DT
2009	7	234	Darryl Richard	DT
2010	7	248	Kade Weston	DT
2006	6	191	Jeremy Mincey	DE	(Holy Shit! An actual DE! 8 sacks for Jax in '11)
2004	2	63	Marquise Hill	DE	(Um, he died in a boating accident)
2005	5	170	Ryan Claridge	LB
2007	6	180	Justin Rogers	LB
2007	4	127	Kareem Brown	DT
2008	3	78	Shawn Crable	LB	(Wow a 3rd...but not a DE)
2009	6	207	Myron Pryor	DT
2009	2	40	Ron Brace	DT	(Ok he sucked...but not a DE)
2010	7	247	B Deaderick	DE
2010	2	53	J Cunningham	LB	(He's not even that bad, not a DE)

shocked · 03-16-2013, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

I don't know where you found those numbers, but in the last 2 years I know that they finished no higher than 25th in team defense.

Lol, you don't know where I found a stat on points allowed? Only the biggest stats there is on D?

In other words, you have your head up your ass and are in denial over a simple point: The Patriots have done a respectable job re-loading despite losing great veterans...but it's not because any team can just draft multiple Pro Bowlers year-after year. It takes some times. There will be misses along with hits. There will be bumps in the road. Duh.

milkman · 03-16-2013, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shocked

Lol, you don't know where I found a stat on points allowed? Only the biggest stats there is on D?

In other words, you have your head up your ass and are in denial over a simple point: The Patriots have done a respectable job re-loading despite losing great veterans...but it's not because any team can just draft multiple Pro Bowlers year-after year. It takes some times. There will be misses along with hits. There will be bumps in the road. Duh.

While points allowed is an important metric, it can be affected somewhat by teams being forced to do things they would not otherwise do in an attempt to keep up.

There is no perfect stat to measure any player or team performance.

You have to weigh those in with what you see.

The Patriot defense has been mediocre to pure garbage for a few years, playing in a division that has garbage offenses.

shocked · 03-16-2013, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13

I am pretty sure they were the worst defense to ever make it to the Super Bowl a couple years ago. They gave up a ton of yards. Part of that though is just how terrible the AFC has been as a whole. I don't think NE even beat a team with a winning record that year until Baltimore in the AFC title game.

Oh, no!

You mean, after losing a ton of great all-pro veterans, the Patriots D experienced a rough stretch due to personnel gaps? Because you cannot just draft all-pros year-in-and-year out? Get out!

But guess what? Baltimore and Pittsburgh? They are pretty much heading into the same territory that NE just got out of. Guess what? They won't just waive a magic wand in the draft and fill all the holes on their roster; that's just not realistic.

Oh, and Baltimore just ranked 12th in points allowed in 2012; they were already on their way down....I'm sure they'll rebound. It'll take a season or two. They will have bad picks too (like, say, Sergio Kindle or Terrence Cody).

shocked · 03-16-2013, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

While points allowed is an important metric, it can be affected somewhat by teams being forced to do things they would not otherwise do in an attempt to keep up.

There is no perfect stat to measure any player or team performance.

You have to weigh those in with what you see.

The Patriot defense has been mediocre to pure garbage for a few years, playing in a division that has garbage offenses.

Wow, you are so thick-headed. This is you just trying to ignore the obvious, instead of conceding a simple, reasonable, point....

Preventing points is the entire reason a defense steps on a field. The whole point of defense is to not allow points. Now you're trying to dismiss/downplay the stat of points allowed? Good luck with that.

Oh, and the afc east has garbage offenses, you say? Ok, but the afc north is pretty much just as lame on offense. Wouldn't that make Pittsburgh and Baltimore's defensive stats just as fraudulent?...or whatever your obnoxious excuse is..

'Hamas' Jenkins · 03-16-2013, 01:33 PM

I said pass-rusher, you dumb ****. You're the one unable to discern pass-rusher from DE while talking about the merits of a team that runs a ****ing 3-4.

shocked · 03-16-2013, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

I said pass-rusher, you dumb ****. You're the one unable to discern pass-rusher from DE while talking about the merits of a team that runs a ****ing 3-4.

Since we were talking about Abraham and C. Jones, I thought we were discussing DEs, my apologies.

So, they run a 4-3, now. But if you just want to list "pass rushers," then why did you cite a ton of 2-gap DTs from their 3-4 days? Pass rush is not their skill set. So, overall point still stands: You tried to list 10 guys who were drafted really late and were little more than training camp fodder...

Semantics or not; your list sucked.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 03-16-2013, 01:54 PM

No, they can't draft players worth a **** who would ever rush the passer. Whether it's DEs DTs, or OLBs, over the last nine years, they've absolutely sucked at it, and that's why their defense sucks.

shocked · 03-16-2013, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

No, they can't draft players worth a **** who would ever rush the passer.

....yeah, if you limit it to 6th/7th round picks, the likes of which can be found on any team.

Oh, and if you ignore Chandler Jones; pretty much their only high pick spent on a pass-rusher due to all the vets they recently had on their roster.

Quote:

Whether it's DEs DTs, or OLBs, over the last nine years, they've absolutely sucked at it, and that's why their defense sucks.

NE was ranked 9th in pts last year and have average rank of 8.5 on D since '00. That's a defense that sucks? Or are you just being intentionally dense? I think its the latter.

PornChief · 03-16-2013, 02:49 PM

shocked has convinced me that Bill Belichick might just be a good coach with a vague idea of what he's doing.

03-15-2013, 02:33 PM
Mr. Laz Don't Tease Me Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: KS Casino cash: $11047037	John Abraham is a Patriot NFL Draft Insider ‏@NFLDraftInsider I am told that DE John Abraham is now a New England Patriot. Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More
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03-16-2013, 12:41 PM	#33
milkman Dumbass! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Leading the Marty bashing Casino cash: $10029395	I don't know where you found those numbers, but in the last 2 years I know that they finished no higher than 25th in team defense. __________________
Posts: 70,769

03-16-2013, 12:54 PM	#34
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $1532500	I am pretty sure they were the worst defense to ever make it to the Super Bowl a couple years ago. They gave up a ton of yards. Part of that though is just how terrible the AFC has been as a whole. I don't think NE even beat a team with a winning record that year until Baltimore in the AFC title game.
Posts: 55,046

03-16-2013, 01:33 PM	#40
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7919572	I said pass-rusher, you dumb **. You're the one unable to discern pass-rusher from DE while talking about the merits of a team that runs a **ing 3-4. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,858

03-16-2013, 01:54 PM	#42
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7919572	No, they can't draft players worth a **** who would ever rush the passer. Whether it's DEs DTs, or OLBs, over the last nine years, they've absolutely sucked at it, and that's why their defense sucks. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,858

03-16-2013, 02:49 PM	#44
PornChief Starter Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Australia Casino cash: $10005180	shocked has convinced me that Bill Belichick might just be a good coach with a vague idea of what he's doing.
Posts: 590