Movies and TV Star Wars Episode VII SPOILERS thread - Page 262

Hammock Parties · 08:14 PM

No holds barred spoiler discussion in this thread.

**007** · 01-21-2016, 01:39 AM

how the hell did Ingruber not make the cut? WTF?

**Gadzooks** · 01-21-2016, 01:41 AM

Because one of Jud Apatow's toadies beat him out.

**DaneMcCloud** · 01-21-2016, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by listopencil

Those are the other choices? Blah. It's hard for me to describe what I think a young Han Solo should look like other than just to stupidly say, "Be a young Harrison Ford", which isn't realistic of course. Scott Eastwood really isn't it either but at least I think I could buy him as the character.

Yeah, what I think they should do is hire the best young actor that's similar in attitude and stature.

If he doesn't necessarily "look" like Harrison Ford, it won't matter as long as the story and acting is top notch, which I expect to be since its been written by Kasdan and is directed by Phil Lord and Chris Miller.

listopencil · 01-21-2016, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Yeah, what I think they should do is hire the best young actor that's similar in attitude and stature.

If he doesn't necessarily "look" like Harrison Ford, it won't matter as long as the story and acting is top notch, which I expect to be since its been written by Kasdan and is directed by Phil Lord and Chris Miller.

Yeah. If he/they capture the character of Han Solo and tell me a good story then I'll be happy with it.

**DaneMcCloud** · 01-21-2016, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by listopencil

Yeah. If he/they capture the character of Han Solo and tell me a good story then I'll be happy with it.

That's it. I hope they can pull it off.

listopencil · 01-21-2016, 02:03 AM

See, as a negative example, I'd point to Hayden Christensen. There was just nothing at all about that guy that I bought as Anakin/Vader. I can't say what it was. Maybe it was the writing or the direction or just his acting, I don't know. I just could not accept him as that character at any point. He was just "off" and his chemistry with everyone was just "off." Not just the Anakin-Padme love story part. I bought Ewan McGregor as a younger Obi Wan. I thought he (they?) did a good job of bringing a younger Obi Wan to life, I was happy with it. But I felt like I watched a younger Obi Wan interact with...some douche off the street. I couldn't buy it. I honestly don't know how they pull that off really, but I definitely notice when it's not there.

**Gadzooks** · 01-21-2016, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by listopencil

See, as a negative example, I'd point to Hayden Christensen. There was just nothing at all about that guy that I bought as Anakin/Vader. I can't say what it was. Maybe it was the writing or the direction or just his acting, I don't know. I just could not accept him as that character at any point. He was just "off" and his chemistry with everyone was just "off." Not just the Anakin-Padme love story part. I bought Ewan McGregor as a younger Obi Wan. I thought he (they?) did a good job of bringing a younger Obi Wan to life, I was happy with it. But I felt like I watched a younger Obi Wan interact with...some douche off the street. I couldn't buy it. I honestly don't know how they pull that off really, but I definitely notice when it's not there.

I wouldn't put the failure of Anakin's "character" purely on Hayden Christensen.

He did a great job in the sand people massacre scene.

The writing was shitty and didn't develop any characters. Ewan McGregor can only be given credit for passing off as a younger Alec Guinness. The writing didn't help him. Obi Wan came off as a whiner in Episode I and an asshole step-dad in Episodes II & III

There was nothing in the writing to develop any of the characters.

listopencil · 01-21-2016, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gadzooks

I wouldn't put the failure of Anakin's "character" purely on Hayden Christensen.

He did a great job in the sand people massacre scene.

The writing was shitty and didn't develop any characters. Ewan McGregor can only be given credit for passing off as a younger Alec Guinness. The writing didn't help him. Obi Wan came off as a whiner in Episode I and an asshole step-dad in Episodes II & III

There was nothing in the writing to develop any of the characters.

Sure. Maybe that's it. Maybe I just accept Ewan McGregor as a younger version of Alec Guinness and that's enough for me to believe the character. I would give that a shot; a young Obi Wan movie with Ewan McGregor. I'd be willing to watch it.

Discuss Thrower · 01-21-2016, 12:35 PM

It wasn't totally Christensen's fault; the writing sucked and there seemingly wasn't enough great directing to overcome that.

I also think it was an error to start off with Jake Lloyd in Episode I. It didn't seem like the Jedi were taking on that big of a risk in training such an "older" child because Lloyd's Anakin just seemed like a nerdy little kid and didn't give an audience any sort of inclination that he had the capability of killing an entire Sand People village or Jedi children.

They have Anakin portrayed in Episode I as a 14-16 year old (which Christensen would have been at the higher end of that range) and actively show that he's largely a good guy (which is what you see through the later iteration of the Clone Wars) but definitely has an angry / vengeful side to him and therefore making it a lot bigger risk to the Jedi to train him as a teenager. Then there's a more dramatic pull with his arc of falling to the dark side and his relationship with Padme makes a lot more sense and is a LOT less creepy.

Granted, this presumes Episodes II and III aren't also laden with hamfisted dialogue and plots that don't make any sense, but still.

It's a shame for the trilogy to have wasted Portman and I think it's odd that McGregor made more out of bad scripts and direction than the rest of the cast did; can't really figure out way

NewChief · 01-21-2016, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

It wasn't totally Christensen's fault; the writing sucked and there seemingly wasn't enough great directing to overcome that.

I also think it was an error to start off with Jake Lloyd in Episode I. It didn't seem like the Jedi were taking on that big of a risk in training such an "older" child because Lloyd's Anakin just seemed like a nerdy little kid and didn't give an audience any sort of inclination that he had the capability of killing an entire Sand People village or Jedi children.

They have Anakin portrayed in Episode I as a 14-16 year old (which Christensen would have been at the higher end of that range) and actively show that he's largely a good guy (which is what you see through the later iteration of the Clone Wars) but definitely has an angry / vengeful side to him and therefore making it a lot bigger risk to the Jedi to train him as a teenager. Then there's a more dramatic pull with his arc of falling to the dark side and his relationship with Padme makes a lot more sense and is a LOT less creepy.

Granted, this presumes Episodes II and III aren't also laden with hamfisted dialogue and plots that don't make any sense, but still.

It's a shame for the trilogy to have wasted Portman and I think it's odd that McGregor made more out of bad scripts and direction than the rest of the cast did; can't really figure out way

As I'm watching Rebels and reflecting on Star Wars, I can't help but agree. My biggest gripe (other than the sappy love stuff and awful dialog) is that the transformation into Vader isn't believable.

1) There is absolutely ZERO connection to me between Hayden C., even the Hayden C at the end of E3 who has killed the younglings and battled Obi Wan and been burnt horribly, and the character of Darth Vader. They just don't seem like the same person. When I see Vader doing something on Rebels and try to envision Hayden C's Anakin doing that or saying that... it just doesn't seem to be the same person. Yet, I know that he's been "reborn" but there just doesn't seem like a connection between the two.

2) Speaking of the killing of the younglings. That was just horribly developed. I can see Anakin turning dark over time. But the purely psychotic and insane level of "I'll slaughter a bunch of innocent kids" is just over the top. That would be a level of butchery that I think he'd have to build up to, which we don't really see. It's all, "If you want to save Padme. Go kill all these innocent kids." That's just nuts.

**DaneMcCloud** · 01-21-2016, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewChief

As I'm watching Rebels and reflecting on Star Wars, I can't help but agree. My biggest gripe (other than the sappy love stuff and awful dialog) is that the transformation into Vader isn't believable.

1) There is absolutely ZERO connection to me between Hayden C., even the Hayden C at the end of E3 who has killed the younglings and battled Obi Wan and been burnt horribly, and the character of Darth Vader. They just don't seem like the same person. When I see Vader doing something on Rebels and try to envision Hayden C's Anakin doing that or saying that... it just doesn't seem to be the same person. Yet, I know that he's been "reborn" but there just doesn't seem like a connection between the two.

2) Speaking of the killing of the younglings. That was just horribly developed. I can see Anakin turning dark over time. But the purely psychotic and insane level of "I'll slaughter a bunch of innocent kids" is just over the top. That would be a level of butchery that I think he'd have to build up to, which we don't really see. It's all, "If you want to save Padme. Go kill all these innocent kids." That's just nuts.

Wow, I disagree. EVERYONE is pulling on Anakin in opposite directions and IMO, he just snaps.

Anakin is young and powerful in the Force but he's also been a pawn of the Jedi since the beginning. At first, they didn't want to train him. Then, after winning battle after battle and eliminating Count Dooku, they still won't grant him a seat on the council and promote him to Master.

The Jedi council wants him to spy on the Chancellor, even though it's illegal. Padme also wants him to talk to the Chancellor and convince him of her plan but in reality, the Chancellor is his only "true" friend, the only person he begins to trust (who, of course, is manipulating him as well).

Mace Windu suggests that the Jedi take over control of the Senate, then leads a band of Jedi into the Chancellor's office, not only to arrest the Chancellor (something that is NOT in their power to do) but wants to kill him as well. Anakin witnesses the betrayal of the Jedi Code firsthand.

The Jedi and Padme continually ****ed with him, as did Obi Wan at times, to the point where he hated the Jedi and trusted the Chancellor, especially after witnessing the "true" power of Darth Sidious.

I totally bought into it.

NewChief · 01-21-2016, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Wow, I disagree. EVERYONE is pulling on Anakin in opposite directions and IMO, he just snaps.

Anakin is young and powerful in the Force but he's also been a pawn of the Jedi since the beginning. At first, they didn't want to train him. Then, after winning battle after battle and eliminating Count Dooku, they still won't grant him a seat on the council and promote him to Master.

The Jedi council wants him to spy on the Chancellor, even though it's illegal. Padme also wants him to talk to the Chancellor and convince him of her plan but in reality, the Chancellor is his only "true" friend, the only person he begins to trust (who, of course, is manipulating him as well).

Mace Windu suggests that the Jedi take over control of the Senate, then leads a band of Jedi into the Chancellor's office, not only to arrest the Chancellor (something that is NOT in their power to do) but wants to kill him as well. Anakin witnesses the betrayal of the Jedi Code firsthand.

The Jedi and Padme continually ****ed with him, as did Obi Wan at times, to the point where he hated the Jedi and trusted the Chancellor, especially after witnessing the "true" power of Darth Sidious.

I totally bought into it.

But there's also that whole, "You're a sith lord! I have to arrest you." Which then turns into "I'll accidentally help you kill Mace Windu." Then quickly into, "Okay. I'll go kill a bunch of kids for you."

That just seems like a REALLY quick development. I suppose if he's having a psychotic break with his whole personality just being shattered its believeable, but I never really saw it like that. I just seemed like he went from "I've got stop the Sith Lord" to "I'm willing to slaughter innocents for the Sith Lord" really quickly.

listopencil · 01-21-2016, 03:39 PM

I agree with New Chief here. But I would say that the last bit of the last movie was better. Starting from when Padme and Ben arrive to confront Anakin to the end of the movie, I thought that was decent. I watched a YouTube video suggesting that Palpatine was using some shady shit that he learned as an apprentice to implant Anakin's nightmares as well as actually being responsible for Padme's death. I like the idea and it does tie stuff together nicely.

**DaneMcCloud** · 01-21-2016, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewChief

But there's also that whole, "You're a sith lord! I have to arrest you." Which then turns into "I'll accidentally help you kill Mace Windu." Then quickly into, "Okay. I'll go kill a bunch of kids for you."

That just seems like a REALLY quick development. I suppose if he's having a psychotic break with his whole personality just being shattered its believeable, but I never really saw it like that. I just seemed like he went from "I've got stop the Sith Lord" to "I'm willing to slaughter innocents for the Sith Lord" really quickly.

I understand we're you're coming from but if you'll recall, even in ATOC, he's angry that Obi Wan and the Council are holding him back.

When he sees their deceit and lies first hand (after the Council asked him to spy on the Chancellor), I think he just goes all in.

NewChief · 01-21-2016, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I understand we're you're coming from but if you'll recall, even in ATOC, he's angry that Obi Wan and the Council are holding him back.

When he sees their deceit and lies first hand (after the Council asked him to spy on the Chancellor), I think he just goes all in.

Yeah. I can see that. Maybe HC is to blame in not doing a good enough job of really getting that across (or maybe I'm to blame for not picking up on it well enough). I've heard other people talk about how "corrupt" the Jedi Council is as well, which I think might also come across more in the EU books and such than it does in the movies.

I actually generally like the prequels as far as the plotlines and CGI and such. I just don't like a few of the sideplots, actors and character development, I guess.

11-08-2014, 01:39 PM
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4300478	Star Wars Episode VII SPOILERS thread No holds barred spoiler discussion in this thread. Last edited by Hammock Parties; 10-19-2015 at 08:14 PM..
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01-21-2016, 01:39 AM	#3916
007 Shaken. Not stirred. Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: London Casino cash: $13910126 VARSITY	how the hell did Ingruber not make the cut? WTF? __________________ My dear girl, there are some things that just aren’t done. Such as, drinking Dom Perignon ’53 above the temperature of 38 degrees Fahrenheit. That’s just as bad as listening to the Beatles without earmuffs.
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01-21-2016, 01:41 AM	#3917
Gadzooks MFIC Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Tromsø, Norway Casino cash: $3819219	Because one of Jud Apatow's toadies beat him out.
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01-21-2016, 02:03 AM	#3921
listopencil Immanentize The Eschaton Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In Partibus Infidelium Casino cash: $1815880	See, as a negative example, I'd point to Hayden Christensen. There was just nothing at all about that guy that I bought as Anakin/Vader. I can't say what it was. Maybe it was the writing or the direction or just his acting, I don't know. I just could not accept him as that character at any point. He was just "off" and his chemistry with everyone was just "off." Not just the Anakin-Padme love story part. I bought Ewan McGregor as a younger Obi Wan. I thought he (they?) did a good job of bringing a younger Obi Wan to life, I was happy with it. But I felt like I watched a younger Obi Wan interact with...some douche off the street. I couldn't buy it. I honestly don't know how they pull that off really, but I definitely notice when it's not there. __________________ Good friends we have had, oh, good friends we've lost...along the way. In this great future, you can't forget your past. So dry your tears, I say.
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01-21-2016, 12:35 PM	#3924
Discuss Thrower "You like to drink?" Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: "I like to drink." Casino cash: $2846869	It wasn't totally Christensen's fault; the writing sucked and there seemingly wasn't enough great directing to overcome that. I also think it was an error to start off with Jake Lloyd in Episode I. It didn't seem like the Jedi were taking on that big of a risk in training such an "older" child because Lloyd's Anakin just seemed like a nerdy little kid and didn't give an audience any sort of inclination that he had the capability of killing an entire Sand People village or Jedi children. They have Anakin portrayed in Episode I as a 14-16 year old (which Christensen would have been at the higher end of that range) and actively show that he's largely a good guy (which is what you see through the later iteration of the Clone Wars) but definitely has an angry / vengeful side to him and therefore making it a lot bigger risk to the Jedi to train him as a teenager. Then there's a more dramatic pull with his arc of falling to the dark side and his relationship with Padme makes a lot more sense and is a LOT less creepy. Granted, this presumes Episodes II and III aren't also laden with hamfisted dialogue and plots that don't make any sense, but still. It's a shame for the trilogy to have wasted Portman and I think it's odd that McGregor made more out of bad scripts and direction than the rest of the cast did; can't really figure out way __________________ Chiefs 2016 Opponents: Home: JAX, TEN, NO, TB, NYJ. Away: HOU, IND, ATL, CAR, PIT Chiefs 2017 Opponents: Home: BUF, MIA, PHI, WSH, AFC North. Away: NE, NYJ, NYG, DAL, AFC South
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01-21-2016, 03:39 PM	#3928
listopencil Immanentize The Eschaton Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In Partibus Infidelium Casino cash: $1815880	I agree with New Chief here. But I would say that the last bit of the last movie was better. Starting from when Padme and Ben arrive to confront Anakin to the end of the movie, I thought that was decent. I watched a YouTube video suggesting that Palpatine was using some shady shit that he learned as an apprentice to implant Anakin's nightmares as well as actually being responsible for Padme's death. I like the idea and it does tie stuff together nicely. __________________ Good friends we have had, oh, good friends we've lost...along the way. In this great future, you can't forget your past. So dry your tears, I say.
Posts: 56,010