****OFFICIAL 2013 NBA PLAYOFFS THREAD****

[-King-]

2012-2013 NBA Champions:

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by KevB

Shaq is arguable as he got started in the early 90's, but Duncan and Kobe had most of their success in the 2000's. How many years do I get to choose from.....5? You're pulling from 20-25 years?

As to your player comps, you're not making sense. When all is said and done, Melo will probably be this generation's Dominique Wilkins. Prime time scorer, never actually won anything. Their career stats are almost identical.

Wade and Pierce are borderline? Wade's career averages are 25/6/5/2/1 and he'll have at least four rings when all is said and done. Pierce is one of the greatest Celtics of all time.

Ray Allen is the best shooter the league has ever seen and has more 3's than anyone in history. Given his ring(s) and his stats through his peak years, he's a shoe in HOF guy. Oh, and go check the stats on Allen and Mullin at Basketball Reference and then get back to me.

CP3 does need more post-season success, but he's an historically elite PG who is still just 28.

Westbrook is Tim Hardaway? You have to be trolling at this point. Westbrook is 24 years old and he's already a better all-around player.

Hard to judge these things by PPG averages. It's like measuring home runs hit in a juiced ball era or qbs in the loose PI rules era. Joe Montana isn't going to put up drew brees numbers during the 90s,but Montana would still be a hall of fame QB in our modern era. As would elway.

Scoring averages are much more meaningless. As is offensive dominance. You can't take a pure shooter like ray Allen and compare him to guys who are not only shooters, but terrific shot creators like bird, reggie miller, Glenn rice, and Mullin. Tim Hardaway in his prime was averaging 20 points, 10+ assists per game. Is not in the hall of fame. Pierce and wade are terrific, but their scoring averages are padded because they play in an offensive era and the reason you brought them up is to imply that these players are much better than the previous generation. With tighter hand checking rules, these guys would be on par with most fringe or barely made it hall of famers.

Your list does not include an overwhelming number of surefire hall of famers. They are mostly fringe hall of famers regardless of generation. Which doesn't prove that this is a far more talented generation. Like the previous generation, you have a few outrageous superstars like kobe and lebron, a few guys like garnett and Duncan who are terrific players and surefire hall of famers, and you have lots of fringe guys like Pierce and wade who are probably hall of fame but could easily be considered on the fringe.

[KevB]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Hard to judge these things by PPG averages. It's like measuring home runs hit in a juiced ball era or qbs in the loose PI rules era. Joe Montana isn't going to put up drew brees numbers during the 90s,but Montana would still be a hall of fame QB in our modern era. As would elway.

Scoring averages are much more meaningless. As is offensive dominance. You can't take a pure shooter like ray Allen and compare him to guys who are not only shooters, but terrific shot creators like bird, reggie miller, Glenn rice, and Mullin. Tim Hardaway in his prime was averaging 20 points, 10+ assists per game. Is not in the hall of fame. Pierce and wade are terrific, but their scoring averages are padded because they play in an offensive era and the reason you brought them up is to imply that these players are much better than the previous generation. With tighter hand checking rules, these guys would be on par with most fringe or barely made it hall of famers.

Your list does not include an overwhelming number of surefire hall of famers. They are mostly fringe hall of famers regardless of generation. Which doesn't prove that this is a far more talented generation. Like the previous generation, you have a few outrageous superstars like kobe and lebron, a few guys like garnett and Duncan who are terrific players and surefire hall of famers, and you have lots of fringe guys like Pierce and wade who are probably hall of fame but could easily be considered on the fringe.

You're making things up. I never said this group today is better than the previous generation. I refuted the claim from TW that this group couldn't hold the previous group's jock.

And I've never once referenced ppg as the only unit of measure. Feel free to compare rebounds, assists, percentages, etc. Everything I've said holds up. How can you say Reggie Miller and Glenn Robinson were shot creators? I have to question if you ever saw some of these guys play. They were pure gunners, plain and simple. I'm trying to figure out how Glenn Robinson has found his way into any conversation that compares the best players from any generation. Pierce and Wade are sure fire Hall of Famers, there's absolutely no doubt. I guess we won't agree, so I'm done....anything more would just be repetition.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by KevB

You're making things up. I never said this group today is better than the previous generation. I refuted the claim from TW that this group couldn't hold the previous group's jock.

And I've never once referenced ppg as the only unit of measure. Feel free to compare rebounds, assists, percentages, etc. Everything I've said holds up. How can you say Reggie Miller and Glenn Robinson were shot creators? I have to question if you ever saw some of these guys play. They were pure gunners, plain and simple. I'm trying to figure out how Glenn Robinson has found his way into any conversation that compares the best players from any generation. Pierce and Wade are sure fire Hall of Famers, there's absolutely no doubt. I guess we won't agree, so I'm done....anything more would just be repetition.

I said Glenn Rice, not Glenn Robinson. Glenn Rice played shitty defense but was probably one of the best pure shooters of his generation.

Apart from that, I'm sorry dude. I ****ed up. You weren't saying one generation was better than the other. I misread it. Completely my bad.

[KevB]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I said Glenn Rice, not Glenn Robinson. Glenn Rice played shitty defense but was probably one of the best pure shooters of his generation.

Apart from that, I'm sorry dude. I ****ed up. You weren't saying one generation was better than the other. I misread it. Completely my bad.

Yeah, Rice was a nice player. Really fun to watch when he had it going. Maybe the best individual tourney I've ever seen, save for maybe Manning. TW said Glenn Robinson in an earlier post, so still had him on the brain.

[Tribal Warfare]

Originally Posted by KevB

Yeah, Rice was a nice player. Really fun to watch when he had it going. Maybe the best individual tourney I've ever seen, save for maybe Manning. TW said Glenn Robinson in an earlier post, so still had him on the brain.

David Robinson, never said Glenn

[Buck]

Got my new Avatar ready. Let's go Spurs.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by Buck

Got my new Avatar ready. Let's go Spurs.

Oh okay, that makes sense. I was wondering out of all the great players in the league, why your favorite player would be Kawhi Leonard.

[Buck]

Originally Posted by -King-

Oh okay, that makes sense. I was wondering out of all the great players in the league, why your favorite player would be Kawhi Leonard.

Yep, only one of two Aztecs in the league, the other one is Malcolm Thomas for the Bulls, but I don't know if he'll be in the league next year. Jamaal Franklin should be though.

[KC native]

Originally Posted by Buck

Got my new Avatar ready. Let's go Spurs.

Your avy should have him in a Spurs uniform. Go all the way buck. all the way

like

[KC native]

or

[Buck]

nope

[KC_Connection]

Going with Spurs in 6. If I could be guaranteed that the Wade from game 7 would show up for this series and not the guy who could barely move and did nothing at all for the first 6, I'd go with Miami. But as it is, LeBron can't beat a team as good as the Spurs alone like he did with the one-man show against Indiana.

[KC native]

Originally Posted by Buck

nope

Come on buck.

[AdumbGuy]

I'm waiting to see how often Miami uses the "flying death machine" defense since they only seem to use it when they're motivated. If they can, and so far nobody has been able to handle it, heat in 6 or 7ish. And that's simply because they'll get tired and try to win it with their half court offense the rest of the time.

So far, we've only seen that hellish defense for extended periods in game 7 and in spurts otherwise. And as far as I can tell, the main change is that Lebron tells his teammates, **** these guys - don't let them breathe. Then the energy level ramps up to 11, every ball handler is aggressively blitzed, passes get mishandled, dribbles get lost, lebron goes into freight train mode, and... blowout. The "Laker beating" Pistons defense was probably the best I'd ever seen*, but this Miami defense when engaged is just disturbing.

So while a healthy wade/bosh means they can beat most teams without reverting to it, that's one hell of a trump card they can throw down.

*As a pretentious basketball purist, I never considered the early knicks/heat defenses good. They just fouled the shit out of everybody. Any hack at a YMCA can play defense like that which is why shitty teams always resort to those tactics.

[Hammock Parties]

Miami has no center you dipshit. They aren't unleashing any kind of hellish defense on the Spurs. Mo than likely they goin ta get they asses handed to them in da paint for 6 games and bitch out like the frauds they is.