****Official Kansas vs Michigan State - Champions Classic Game Thread****

[Lzen]

Game time: 9pm
Channel: ESPN

Let's go, KU!

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Look, I get why Self plays Lucas. He runs Self's system and makes few mistakes like many of the others. The problem is that he's just not good enough to run Self's system effectively. He can't even efficiently score from within the 5 foot range. Giving him the ball is essentially a waste of the possession, it's basically like playing 4 on 5 on offense. On any other Self team for the past decade, he'd be a bench warmer. Ideally, Diallo (if he's even allowed on the court) or Bragg eventually take his minutes away but there's no guarantee of that happening.

Yeah, but the problem is that he DOES make a lot of mistakes on offense (can't make a damn layup) and defense.

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Backcourt was 9-36. Just sad watching Bill Self try to grunt out wins and not care about scoring. 34% shooting and 3-15 deep. "We will grunt it out" sayeth Bill

I saw a bunch of one on one basketball last night. Not much passing and teamwork on the offensive end. That's at least partly why they shot such a poor percentage. Still, they missed a lot of open shots and even a few layups.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Lzen

I saw a bunch of one on one basketball last night. Not much passing and teamwork on the offensive end. That's at least partly why they shot such a poor percentage. Still, they missed a lot of open shots and even a few layups.

I'm not sure I hate the strategy. Mason is an elite driver and the rules very much favor dudes driving. Couple that with when we got up against the shot clock, we put up some awful assed shots.

I mean, yes. I would much rather get drives or into the lane with offense, but if it's Mason and to a lesser extent Graham driving the bucket, I probably won't bitch too much.

Hopefully the shots fall with a few games against legit competition (MSU is) to knock the rust off.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Lzen

Yeah, but the problem is that he DOES make a lot of mistakes on offense (can't make a damn layup) and defense.

Not because he's not doing the right thing. He's not making mental mistakes. He's just not actually capable of executing. He's that bad.

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Not because he's not doing the right thing. He's not making mental mistakes. He's just not actually capable of executing. He's that bad.

Yes, that sounds about right. I'm just dumbfounded at the fact that Lucas is getting all those minutes rather than Mickelson.

[Lzen]

BTW, what's up with Dane? He was being a decent poster for awhile but now he's back to personal attacks in this thread and in a conceal carry discussion in DC. Did he fall off the wagon or something?

[KC_Connection]

The relative offensive problems (and what we saw last night is nothing new if you saw last year) stem from the bigs simply not being able to effectively and efficiently run Self's system. If they're not getting and making the close shots that the system is designed to get, it throws everyone else out of their comfort zone. Scoring then basically falls on Ellis going 1 on 1 or Mason's creation ability for himself or others. That's even more of a problem when you have slugs on the court like Lucas and Traylor who other teams don't have to guard, allowing them to sag off on Mason, Ellis, or whoever else has the ball in that instance (usually Graham or Selden).

Going forward, we need Bragg (who has a decent jump shot if last night is any indication) to become the other primary big with Ellis. With him in the lineup and wings hitting their shots that other teams have to honor (Selden, Svi, Greene), that will open up things for Mason and Ellis. If Bragg doesn't develop and start getting those Traylor/Lucas minutes (or if Diallo doesn't return), the same thing as last year (and last night) is going to keep happening.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Lzen

Yes, that sounds about right. I'm just dumbfounded at the fact that Lucas is getting all those minutes rather than Mickelson.

At least Mickelson blocks shots. As we last last night, some rim protection could have been pretty useful with Valentine picking us apart.

[Prison Bitch]

Originally Posted by Lzen

I saw a bunch of one on one basketball last night. Not much passing and teamwork on the offensive end. That's at least partly why they shot such a poor percentage. Still, they missed a lot of open shots and even a few layups.

Grind-em Down Bill drops to 1-4 in the Champions Classic. They really need to drop us from this event, because putting this pitiful guy up against 3 legit HOF coaches isn't fair for Grind Em Down. Or those coaches, the fans, viewers....

[KC_Connection]

Beyond the basketball issues (which still likely won't stop KU from having another top 10, Big 12 winning season), there's obviously the other issue of the team's soft identity and just how outworked they were yesterday by MSU (or their fatal flaw). That is less correctable and almost certainly won't change until the current core (Ellis, Selden) departs.

[Bambi]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

The difference is that Mason is generally a very good defender, whereas Greene can't move laterally at all.

Why do people keep saying this?

Greene isn't the quickest guy in the world but he makes up for it with his length. He's the type of player that looks like he's loafing it when in fact he's moving just as quickly as most of the smaller guards out there.

Mason might be a "bulldog" and all but that didn't stop multiple players from going right by him last night.

Green must be an absolute ass-clown on and off the court because there simply isn't a reason to not be playing him more.

This team has continually lost these big games (Kentucky, Wichita State, and now this) and the same issues keep popping up in all of them. We don't have the bigs to play like Self would want to. He has to embrace the outside shot more..

And by embrace I mean really take a look at the ones shooting them.

[Saul Good]

Yeah. The team would have been much better off without the 21/6 (0 fouls) from Ellis.

The other 3 starting forwards (for both teams) combined for 22/17 (12 fouls).

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Bambi

Why do people keep saying this?

Because people have watched these guys play for multiple years now and don't just base their opinions of them on one good or bad game. Mason remains a good defender, while Greene is a bad one.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

Yeah. The team would have been much better off without the 21/6 (0 fouls) from Ellis.

The other 3 starting forwards (for both teams) combined for 22/17 (12 fouls).

Is this directed at me? My issue with Ellis is not that he doesn't make KU better (he obviously does, he's their best scorer on the roster and I've said as much often), it's the fact that such a flawed player being such a significant part of the team makes the team's ceiling severely limited. You're not winning big games consistently when you have a guy that soft playing a central role.

[Bambi]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

Yeah. The team would have been much better off without the 21/6 (0 fouls) from Ellis.

The other 3 starting forwards (for both teams) combined for 22/17 (12 fouls).

Ellis is obviously the best player on the team. Anyone who watches basketball knows this.

He shoulders a lot of the blame because the players around him simply aren't that great.

Frank Mason was the 76th ranked player in his class coming out of high school. Although he's been a good contributor he has a ceiling.

Devonte Graham was originally committed to Appalachian State. Not exactly the stratosphere of college basketball.

LaGerald Vick committed late after Self missed on all the other big time guards last season. (he's not even rated on the Rivals top 150)

The Diallo decision is HUGE. By all accounts he's the real deal. But every game that Simmons, and Labissiere, and Brandon Ingram play is one less that Diallo does...

It's quickly turning into a repeat of last year and the Cliff Alexander debacle.