Star Wars Episode VII SPOILERS thread

[Hammock Parties]

No holds barred spoiler discussion in this thread.

[RobBlake]

that shot of harrison walking toward's adam was so beautifully shot.

[Buehler445]

Got out of it, then took time to read this thread.

I really really liked it. My buddy hadn't seen Star Wars (he was...sheltered) so I watched the first 3 last week with him, after not seeing them in better than a decade. I believe this was pretty close to as good of writing/story telling as those were. There is a lot of nostalgia there. A LOT. And I'm guilty too. There were several scenes that were not groundbreaking, but had a huge ****ing smile on my face because the MOTHER****ING MILLENIUM FALCON was ripping shit up. But the nostalgia factors (IMO...Don't shred me) covers up a lot of sins of the original trilolgy. Now, there is a lot of merit to the 70's/groundbreaking/different time arguments, but they do a lot of the same things as the original trilogy beyond just plot points.

That, then is the crux of why I liked it. The prequels were tremendously slow moving and devoid of meaningful plot points that moved the narrative forward. The originals packed a mountain of shit into a short period. You had to hold on to your seat. There was no peeing, you'd miss too much.

In addition to the new one getting back to it, they developed new characters that I liked. Yeah, the death star thing is played out, but it is probably a lesser disappointment than there being a death star in ROTJ.

As for REN. You could tell that he could use the force but he was really undisciplined. Which is certainly enough to curb stomp villagers, but it explains a lot as to why Rey and Finn could hang. Also, the Force affects people differently. Yoda/Emporer could see the future, while Anakin/Luke were better fighters. Ren's manifestation could be more in the mind stuff.

Either way, there wasn't anything in this one that I had to suspend any harder than any of the rest of them. And it went a hell of a long way to washing the prequel stink off the franchise.

But for the strongly vested, I understand why you would be disappointed, but quite frankly breaking from the initial narrative on the first one would have been a tremendous risk, and probably costly.

Originally Posted by Superturtle

Rey is Lukes daughter. I'd be shocked if that wasn't the case at this point.

Rey is Ren's twin. My guess.

Originally Posted by dirk digler

I went back and watched the originals this past weekend and still loved them. IMVHO this movie felt forced because they knew the last 3 were shitty so they brought back all the old characters to get fans back and make alot of money. Carrie Fisher's performance was bad and you could tell she was just there for the paycheck.

I felt like the visuals were awesome, some of the best ever but the story I just couldn't get into. Outside of Fin none of the new characters I could give a shit about.

I always judge movies by a simple standard which is would I pay to see that movie again. I wouldn't. This would be a movie I might watch on Netflix on a lazy rainy weekend.

I hate to be a downer but that is how I feel.

Carrie Fisher's problem was she had WAAAAY too much botox. She couldn't move her damned face.

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

So it wasn't just me? Bummer. One thing I didn't address last night, which was a major bone of contention for me, was the score.

This was, without a doubt, John Williams most unfocused, laziest and lamest score of his career by a wide margin.

Unlike the OT and especially the prequels (IMO, TPM score was jaw dropping), this was as memorable as a late night SyFy channel score. I can't remember anything, outside of the opening fanfare, Yoda's theme and Luke's theme.

Obviously, the opening fanfare and Vader's theme are etched in our social conscious. But the musical themes for Yoda, Luke, The Emperor, General Grievous and Dooku/Jango Fett all play very important roles in the previous films.

In this film, there was no theme for Kylo Ren, Snoke or Rey (Finn and Poe didn't play a big enough role, IMO, to warrant a musical motif). And who can forget the amazing music under the Darth Maul vs. Qui Gon and Obi Wan? Unforgettably briiliant.

But in this film, it was completely absent.

Also, contrary to Abrams and Kasdan's proclamations of "delight", I found very little delight and IMO, the film was nearly absent of any "joy". It was a paint by numbers affair that was all too familiar (yet paled in comparison) and predictable.

I hope that Rian Johnson can steer this back on course but I don't have high hopes.

I agree on the score. But it didn't kill the film, like I'm quite certain it did for you.

Originally Posted by Valiant

Hated most of the story, how in the hell do you go to thinking the heroes and jedi are a myth in 30 years??

Big F'ing galaxy with a pile of people that weren't involved and hear stories. Hell, there are a bunch of people on this very board that think the NFL is rigged.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Silock

Adam Driver killed it on the bridge scene. Pun intended. But he did really well.

The bridge scene was the only part that I thought didn't play well. It was obvious (to me) that Han was going to die as soon as he called him out. There was simply no other way to advance the story from that point.

That being said, it was written, shot, and acted very well. And the plot moving forward was also well done IMO. I thought they might mow down Chewey too, but I am really glad they didn't. Letting him be the vessel for the emotion and carry forward the story is a good thing IMO.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

The bridge scene was the only part that I thought didn't play well. It was obvious (to me) that Han was going to die as soon as he called him out. There was simply no other way to advance the story from that point.

Of course he was! lol He's been wanting to die for 30 years! But there was still that moment when you thought . . . maybe. Maybe the unexpected will happen. But then the light goes out, and Ren's face goes from half blue and half red to all red and the saber goes off. Beautiful imagery, even if a bit heavy-handed.

[Silock]

Just saw it for the third time this weekend. Will likely go two more times this week. The more I see it, the more I like it.

[Bowser]

Just saw it. It is a flawed story with arguably lazy writing and now-cliché hooks. And I loved it all. Will definitely see multiple times (if anyone doesn't have access to true IMAX, check it out in a Prime theater. Fantastic.).

Of all of Dane's critiques, I do agree that the score was disappointing, and I don't know dick about what it takes to put a score together like he does.

[Bowser]

And quit ****ing around, Clay. Post your damned review.

[Chiefspants]

The reaction from TFN was actually a lot more positive than I was anticipating. Overall, I liked it. Those interested in Dane's opinion should have looked no further than his reaction to JJ being picked for episode 7.

Sure, the story had flaws and in no way reinvented the wheel, but the characters were so rich that I'm excited to see where the universe takes them.

Essentially it was the exact opposite of the prequels.

[temper11]

Originally Posted by RobBlake

Now that's just some bullshit lol. It didn't live up to the hype to some experienced SW fans.. but you better bet teenagers and below LOVED this movie.

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

That's complete speculation.

It wasn't speculation in my case. I had to force my 18 and 15 year old to watch episodes 1 through 6 (spread out over 6 months) leading up to this movie... and they didn't enjoy them. But they both really liked this one.

For my part, I was very happy with it and like all of you grew up with Star Wars. Star wars was my childhood. I never did get into the expanded universe stuff much though.

Message board gripes:
1) Finn and Poe as best pals. Seemed a bit forced to me at first, but I give Finn a pass because my read of "Stormtrooper daycare" is that they don't allow much friend bonding to occur. Poe freakin' gives the guy his name during his first real individual act of his entire life. He's naïve, and scared, and fish-out-of water, and Poe is his first real friend (admitedly assumed). I don't think it's a stretch that someone might be a bit cheesy in that situation.

I'll go ahead and give Poe a pass just based on the fact that salvation from certain torture and death came out of no where in the form of Finn... so again. Pass. Instant BFF's? Fine - believable enough based on the circumstances.

2) Deathstar revisited... thrice. This bothered me initially. But as someone pointed out "Those who do not follow history, are doomed to repeat it" or something like that. And it's clear in this movie that the past has been forgotten or turned into myth. So the fact that no one in the first order knows that gigantic balls of death are really hard to defend for whatever reason isn't really that far fetched - at least not in the SWU as I know it. Maybe this is contradictory to the expanded universe? Is there much story on what happens post ROTJ that contradict this storyline of Jedi and Sith, Rebels vs. Empire falling to mythology?

3) Emo Sith that reveals identity too quickly. To me this gripe is a little contradictory. Much of the gripes here center around being too forumlaic to ANH. But this gripe seems to be that Ren isn't Vadar-esque enough. "He reveals his identity and face too early", "He's whiny when Vadar wasn't", "He's unsure of himself when vadar wasn't..." etc. etc. Ren isn't Vadar. That's the point. At this point, he's a poser and Rey calls him on it.

4) Reys quick grasping of her force powers. Maybe. The force affects people differently. Anakin was able to successfully compete in pod racing at like 5 years old even though no other human can do it even at an adult age (if I'm remembering that correctly). It's therefore not that difficult to accept that Rey learned enough from the mind fight with Ren to manipulate a weak minded storm trooper from letter her loose. Hell women on earth get men to do far more stupid things than that, without the use of the force.

5) The light sabere battle between Finn/Rey and Ren. Finn got his ass handed to himself pretty quickly from a dude that just took a Chewbacca laser shooting cross bow cannon-thing to the gut. Han blew up 3 or 4 guys with one shot with that thing. To say that Ren could even stand let alone fight is probably less believable than Finn having some initial success in the duel. Secondly, just because he looks like Vadar doesn't mean he's good with a light saber in a duel. We know he isn't fully trained. I think people are assuming to much about a character that we really just met with only hints at his back story. What we DO know is that Rey has been living on her own for as many scratches as we saw on her wall, in the arm pit of the universe, as a hot chick with nothing but a metal pipe for protection. Add that to Ren's injury and alluded to lack of training, and it's not hard to accept that she gets the better of him here.

6) "Snoke looks like Voldermort and other alians": In every sci-fi movie ever made, there's always a group that doesn't like the look of the alien(s).

7) Finn as a sanitation worker. I don't have any problem thinking that a former sanitation worker would have inside knowledge of how to infiltrate a base. Workers of this kind always have access that most people don't and know when and where to move that would draw less attention. I wish he would have said something to that effect when Han flipped his lid. Han's funny line would have still worked and would have given Flinn a bit of credibility.

8) Weird things that escape in Han's smuggling ship: no argument here. I didn't think this scene was necessary. I think they were just trying to figure out how to get Han and Chewy back into the Falcon. But this was a fail in my opinion.

9) BB-8. Cool. Here's my biggest gripe in the movie. Why the hell did they just let BB-8 keep walking around? "Hey Solo, the First Order has a hard on for this droid, what should we do while the bad guys invade your ship? Han: you guys hide, but leave BB-8 out here so the smugglers can get a good look at him". WTF? "Whew, that was really close, now what? Han: let's go to a bar full of villainous people and let BB-8 come with us". WTF again? There is absolutely no reason that I can see that explains either of those two decisions away. It was equally as mind blowing as the decision to take Jar Jar binks into Tattoine. What possible purpose was he going to serve in Tatooine? It's far too dangerous for a normal functioning person, but not too dangerous for a clumsy, reeruned buffoon? BB-8 is cool whereas Jar Jar was not, so I'm fine with wanting to give him more screen time, but just simply write it in. Would have been better if they were trying to get him into the hiding spot with Finn and Rey, but ran out of time or.... something.

10) Captain Phasma's limited role: Didn't even know anything about her until this movie. Must be an expanded universe thing. But I assume, based on casting, that she will play a bigger part in the next movies. She rolled over pretty quickly, I agree, but she was outnumbered and outgunned. Didn't bother me all that much, certainly not enough to not enjoy the hell out of this movie.

I too am very interested to see what came before this movie. The resistance has quite a bit of explaining to do that they would allow the dark side to get so powerful again after their crippling victory in ROTJ. But I liked this re-boot and can't wait for more.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by kysirsoze

I thought it was perfect. The tantrums showed perfectly what keeps him from being what Vader was. He's so insecure and he can't channel his rage effectively. Of course I think killing his dad and going through whatever the last of his training is will probably iron that stuff out. I imagine he will be a much more poised sith badass in episode 8.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he isn't quite to the point of going to the dark side and he needed help.
I think that was why he was constantly hitting himself in his battle wound on his chest….so he could get angry and let the rage consume him.

[Valiant]

Originally Posted by Superturtle

Really? I don't think they could have done it much better personally. He's essentially what Vader should have been during Episode 3. Immature, prone to fits of rage because he is conflicted and can't contol his emotions. Leaves so much room for character growth.
He's a breath of fresh air as a Star Wars villian. Tired of the same cookie cutter stoic badass Siths.

It is weird, but I agree with you.. But then I think he is the most emo villain ever and I hate his face...

When he took off the mask, I was thinking, you need to put that shit back on, you wont scare anyone with it off. Hence why he got beat down by a new force user.

Should be interesting to see how he matures and grows in the next episode. Just like Luke did.. ****, they are copying everything it seems. Fin better not be cased in carbonite next episode.

[unlurking]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he isn't quite to the point of going to the dark side and he needed help.
I think that was why he was constantly hitting himself in his battle wound on his chest….so he could get angry and let the rage consume him.

He did say he could feel the pull of the light earlier in the movie. I'm assuming in either VIII or IX he will pull a Vader and switch back to the light just before he dies.

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by Valiant

It is weird, but I agree with you.. But then I think he is the most emo villain ever and I hate his face...

When he took off the mask, I was thinking, you need to put that shit back on, you wont scare anyone with it off. Hence why he got beat down by a new force user.

Should be interesting to see how he matures and grows in the next episode. Just like Luke did.. ****, they are copying everything it seems. Fin better not be cased in carbonite next episode.

I REALLY hope they don't go the obvious route and have him redeem himself but since it's Star Wars it's probably inevitable. Hopefully Luke smacks the shit out of him in Episode VIII.

[Sassy Squatch]

Kind of excited to see Snoke vs Luke too. That could be a pretty fun fuel to watch.

[unlurking]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

...As for REN. You could tell that he could use the force but he was really undisciplined. Which is certainly enough to curb stomp villagers, but it explains a lot as to why Rey and Finn could hang. Also, the Force affects people differently. Yoda/Emporer could see the future, while Anakin/Luke were better fighters. Ren's manifestation could be more in the mind stuff.
...

Of all the excuses for Ren not killing Finn in seconds, this one I cannot accept. Ren trained for YEARS under Luke and under Snoke. There is no way Ren is not currently the 3rd best trained/skilled force user in the galaxy when he meets Rey and Finn. The guy can freeze blaster bolts for ****'s sake.

Yes, he's in some serious hurt. Yes, he wants Rey (pick in which way). Yes, he's having issues between the dark and the light. Yes, he has Daddy issues (well, not anymore).

NO, HE IS NOT A ****ING PUSSY. This dude is the new Darth Vader bad ass. He's not some chump that any sanitation worker with a conscience can hang with.

I understand wanting to justify this scene (it was really flawed IMO), and I can stretch my opinions to do that, but do not make Ren out to be a wimp. That's lazier than Jar Jar Abrams writing!