Star Wars Episode VII SPOILERS thread

[Hammock Parties]

No holds barred spoiler discussion in this thread.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Silock

In terms of how long it took to tell a complete story? I don't think it is.

We don't know who Luke is in ANH. We don't know his relationship to Vader. Han and Leia don't fall for each other in ANH, and that turns out to be a HUGE plot point. Hell, they basically retcon'd Vader into being Luke's father in ESB.

ESB is an amazing, amazing movie, and my #1 of all-time. But it's an incomplete story.

It's okay. The whole movie doesn't have to be self-contained, especially when you know it's part of a trilogy.

I'm not going to respond to you from my iPad because quite frankly, I can't type quickly enough to keep up with my thoughts.

But the bottom line is this: If Star Wars (A New Hope) was the only film that Lucas was able to produce, no one would have a single question looming after viewing.

We were TOLD about The Force. We were TOLD that Luke's father was killed by Darth Vader. We were TOLD the Death Star plans were stolen.

In 1977, no one sat around and said "I wonder if Luke's father is alive? I wonder if Luke and Leia are twins? I wonder, do Han and Leia fall in love and have a son that murders Han?".

No, no, no, no. It was a self-contained story. There was nothing unanswered.

And again, TFA's score was complete and utter unforgettable garbage.

[kcpasco]

Carrie Fisher seemed like she was just reading her lines and the score could have been better but overall I enjoyed it.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by kcpasco

Carrie Fisher seemed like she was just reading her lines and the score could have been better but overall I enjoyed it.

The score couldn't have been worse if it had been performed on a kazoo by a circus clown

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

The score couldn't have been better if it had been performed on a kazoo by a circus clown

FTFY. Kazoos are awesome.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by unlurking

Leia's home planet had ZERO history. It had no background. It was not the seat of power for a galactic government. There is no comparing the two.

We don't know that it was Coruscant.

EDIT: Apparently, it was a planet in the Hosnian system (I don't recall this personally, but I trust Star Wars Reddit). That makes it really no different than Alderaan. Important to the Republic/Important to the Resistance. Same deal.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

But the bottom line is this: If Star Wars (A New Hope) was the only film that Lucas was able to produce, no one would have a single question looming after viewing.

We were TOLD about The Force. We were TOLD that Luke's father was killed by Darth Vader. We were TOLD the Death Star plans were stolen.

In 1977, no one sat around and said "I wonder if Luke's father is alive? I wonder if Luke and Leia are twins? I wonder, do Han and Leia fall in love and have a son that murders Han?".

No, no, no, no. It was a self-contained story. There was nothing unanswered.

And again, TFA's score was complete and utter unforgettable garbage.

What happened to Darth Vader's TIE? Why did Ben Kenobi just disappear during his fight with Vader? What happened to the other Jedi? There are questions left unanswered. But that mostly has to do with the fact that they thought it would be the only one.

Now, take ESB. There are PLENTY of unresolved issues -- almost too many to write out. And that was okay because they knew there was going to be another movie that would provide the answers.

Same deal here.

[Skyy God]

Rian Johnson is a great director.... I trust him to do something interesting with VIII.

Abrams' main jobs were to a) not **** it up and b) cast great actors for the new leads. He accomplished both.

[Anyong Bluth]

Originally Posted by Silock

What happened to Darth Vader's TIE? Why did Ben Kenobi just disappear during his fight with Vader? What happened to the other Jedi? There are questions left unanswered. But that mostly has to do with the fact that they thought it would be the only one.

Now, take ESB. There are PLENTY of unresolved issues -- almost too many to write out. And that was okay because they knew there was going to be another movie that would provide the answers.

Same deal here.

That's the real truth.

ANH most definitely left loose ends. It also was made under the assumption that the movie was a one off, so it was approached as such. But really, I already know that this is part of a trilogy.

For years, South Park approached the show as each episode operating as basically a stand alone. Starting last season they began to approach each season with a unified plot line that carried over to each show individually. If one were to describe it, I would almost say they were episodic.
This last season of South Park was one of the best in the history of the show and they've been receiving a lot of critical praise and renewed attention.

The point being, a storyline that isn't wrapped up in one movie isn't inherently inferior. That's absolute nonsense if you believe that.

Batman Begins works very well as a stand alone film. It's certainly not a better film than TDK, which leaves enormous amounts of storyline in flux and unresolved.

ANH was made before it was known if any other films would be made. It is the only one that compartmentalizes to some degree as a stand alone. Anyone complaining about questions left unanswered and being critical of the story taking more than one movie is just trying to knit pick. The damm movies are literally subtitled Episode such and such!

Someone inform Tarentino that Kill Bill Volume 1 was lazy and poorly written because he didn't fit his story into a single film.

[Swanman]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I'm not going to respond to you from my iPad because quite frankly, I can't type quickly enough to keep up with my thoughts.

But the bottom line is this: If Star Wars (A New Hope) was the only film that Lucas was able to produce, no one would have a single question looming after viewing.

We were TOLD about The Force. We were TOLD that Luke's father was killed by Darth Vader. We were TOLD the Death Star plans were stolen.

In 1977, no one sat around and said "I wonder if Luke's father is alive? I wonder if Luke and Leia are twins? I wonder, do Han and Leia fall in love and have a son that murders Han?".

No, no, no, no. It was a self-contained story. There was nothing unanswered.

And again, TFA's score was complete and utter unforgettable garbage.

When A New Hope was made, I doubt that Lucas knew for a fact that it would end up being a trilogy so it was vital that the movie tell a fairly self contained story without too many loose ends. With Episode VII, Disney knew without a shadow of a doubt that two more movies would complete this story. I wish there had been more meat to it but overall it did the job of showing us the old characters, introducing new characters and setting the stage for the next film.

And thinking that there was any good storytelling in the prequel trilogy is absolutely full reerun.

[unlurking]

Originally Posted by Silock

We don't know that it was Coruscant.

EDIT: Apparently, it was a planet in the Hosnian system (I don't recall this personally, but I trust Star Wars Reddit). That makes it really no different than Alderaan. Important to the Republic/Important to the Resistance. Same deal.

So they're saying the Senate moved from Coruscant in external literary media?

Wonderful. Brilliant clarity their Abrams. Thanks for making it clear that you are blowing up the Senate of the Republic, knowing that 99% of fans don't know that changed from Coruscant. That's just as dumb IMO.

Looking forward to a non-Abrams version. TFA did introduce characters that I want to know more about, but it really felt like a giant reboot. It felt like they were reusing an old origin story for new characters. It just felt like Abrams was lazy.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Silock

What happened to Darth Vader's TIE? Why did Ben Kenobi just disappear during his fight with Vader? What happened to the other Jedi? There are questions left unanswered. But that mostly has to do with the fact that they thought it would be the only one.

1. Vader's got control of his TIE fighter. There was no question that he was still alive.
2. Ben became part of the Force. That was obvious, even to an 11 year boy.
3. Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi: A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force.

Originally Posted by Silock

Same deal here.

You're speculating. You have absolutely no idea what Episode VIII will hold. You have no idea if the answers to the questions in VII will be answered in film, book, comic or even animation form.

And finally, it's a terrible way to tell a story, especially for a film.

"Wait until 2017 to get your answers. Or not!".

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Anyong Bluth

That's the real truth.

No, it's not.

Originally Posted by Anyong Bluth

ANH most definitely left loose ends. It also was made under the assumption that the movie was a one off, so it was approached as such. But really, I already know that this is part of a trilogy.

Not really. Certainly nothing like Episode VII, which has more unanswered questions than answers.

Originally Posted by Anyong Bluth

The point being, a storyline that isn't wrapped up in one movie isn't inherently inferior. That's absolute nonsense if you believe that.

I thought you were out of this conversation? Regardless, I completely disagree. While it's fine to leave some things to the imagination, about the only thing that the viewer received closure upon in Episode VII is that Han Solo is dead and his son killed him.

Originally Posted by Anyong Bluth

ANH was made before it was known if any other films would be made. It is the only one that compartmentalizes to some degree as a stand alone. Anyone complaining about questions left unanswered and being critical of the story taking more than one movie is just trying to knit pick. The damm movies are literally subtitled Episode such and such!

Making people wait years between movies while filling in pertinent information with other forms of media is downright lazy and manipulative.

Originally Posted by Anyong Bluth

Someone inform Tarentino that Kill Bill Volume 1 was lazy and poorly written because he didn't fit his story into a single film.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Swanman

And thinking that there was any good storytelling in the prequel trilogy is absolutely full reerun.

That's your opinion, not the opinion of millions upon millions of others.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Silock

We don't know that it was Coruscant.

EDIT: Apparently, it was a planet in the Hosnian system (I don't recall this personally, but I trust Star Wars Reddit). That makes it really no different than Alderaan. Important to the Republic/Important to the Resistance. Same deal.

It was mentioned in the movie

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

It's all good, Dude.

I'm not demonizing anyone for having a different opinion or perspective of the film, I'm just giving my opinion. No one else is required to agree.

It's just the more I think about it, the more absurd the logic and premise become.

I still can't get over the fact that Kylo Ren had the power to "Freeze" people in place, yet when Rey "focused" on the Force for 5 seconds (something she thought was a myth an hour prior), she suddenly broke his "Force Hold", chopped off his arm, wounded his shoulder, slashed his face (and possibly blinded him - that one's still up for debate) and kicked the living shit out him, which essentially negates the reason for Jedi or Force training of any kind, something that had gone on for 1,000 years prior to Anakin/Vader and Sidious destroying the Jedi Order.

There are just so many stinkin' plot holes and absurdities.

No different that Vader not being able to tell Princess Leia was his own daughter in ANH.

Or Luke being able to almost kill Vader after only a short period of training of any sort.