ChiefsPlanet It's been a long time coming. Adiós. - Page 21

**OnTheWarpath15** · 07-01-2015, 02:04 PM

It's time for me to bow out. It's been almost 10 years, and I'm tired.

Tired of the false narratives. Tired of people arguing the poster instead of the post. Tired of discussing football with people who favor excuses over evidence. Tired of wasting time talking about an organization that hasn't won a playoff game in the lifetime of a college senior. Tired of watching other great posters leaving entirely or posting less, weakening the Football IQ this place was known for 5-10 years ago.

I know posting a thread instead of just walking away will open the door for many to take their cheap shots - we all know who they are - and if you don't, just wait. They'll show themselves. Those of you that know me privately know this has been building for a long time.

With all that said, I'll say what I've always said: This team has talent, but will continually fall short as long as they keep thinking you can win in the postseason consistently with average QB play. You don't put enough pressure on the opposing defense, and it puts too much pressure on your defense - if they don't have a near-perfect day, you lose.

Peters and Conley were great picks and should make an impact in the years to come. Should be fun to watch. (What? According to some, I NEVER say anything positive - just another false narrative) While I doubt he'll get his shot, I'd like to see if Murray can be that franchise guy, or if he fell for reasons other than what people here assume - namely, his height and injury history. Hopefully they get Houston signed long-term, because if they don't they are in deep, deep shit. The defense tends to carry this team, and Houston is the most important cog in said defense.

I've made a lot of great friends here that are still friends to this day, and will continue to be. This place was awesome when it was more community based - when there would be gatherings, tailgates, etc. Now, it's littered with trolls that take advantage of the anonymity of the internet and would never show their face in public. That attitude has weakened this place considerably, IMHO.

For those of you I call a friend, we'll be in touch. If anyone that isn't already a friend privately or on Facebook/Twitter wants to continue to keep in touch, I'll keep my PM's open for a week or so.

Thanks, Kyle. It was fun for a while. Queue the "well, bye/sour grapes" posts in 3...2...1.

-King- · 07-02-2015, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Because for every half of good play, Alex has several games of playing like a chickenshit. That's why people doubt him. The glass is half full people will say "look at the first half against the Colts". The glass is half empty will say "look at the entire Tennessee game or end of the San Fran game." Whether you want to admit it or not, Wilson tends to step up more often than not and make plays when the team needs it. Alex hasn't.

Even if you only get the 2nd half Alex Smith you should STILL win more games than you lose.

And yes, Wilson does step up more often than not. I wish Alex did the same. But at the same time, some of the times Wilson has had to step up was because he had ****ed up earlier in the game. He wouldn't need to make 2 great throws in the 4th quarter and overtime in the NFCCG if he hadn't thrown 4 picks in the game.

**DeezNutz** · 07-02-2015, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Because for every half of good play, Alex has several games of playing like a chickenshit. That's why people doubt him. The glass is half full people will say "look at the first half against the Colts". The glass is half empty will say "look at the entire Tennessee game or end of the San Fran game." Whether you want to admit it or not, Wilson tends to step up more often than not and make plays when the team needs it. Alex hasn't.

And this ability to "make plays" is tightly connected to being an overall more dynamic player last year. Specifically, Russell was a very productive runner. He averaged 53 YPG on the ground, with 217.2 YPG passing.

Smith, on the other hand, averaged 17 YPG on the ground, with 217.7 YPG passing.

Get over 800 yards rushing from your QB, and you're damn right that this changes the overall complexion a shit ton.

**DeezNutz** · 07-02-2015, 02:46 PM

The results of making plays with this feet absolutely offset so many of the comparisons between Russell and Smith.

The former is mediocre--he's Smith--without the dynamic element he adds on the ground, which is exactly why he must get paid like a passing superstar right now (because he's not).

Chiefnj2 · 07-02-2015, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -King-

Even if you only get the 2nd half Alex Smith you should STILL win more games than you lose.

And yes, Wilson does step up more often than not. I wish Alex did the same. But at the same time, some of the times Wilson has had to step up was because he had ****ed up earlier in the game. He wouldn't need to make 2 great throws in the 4th quarter and overtime in the NFCCG if he hadn't thrown 4 picks in the game.

2nd half Alex Smith didn't do much of anything, primarily because Reid shit the bed with his playcalling. But that is beside the point. At some point in the playoffs a QB has to step up for whatever reason - maybe bad play on the QB's part early in the game, maybe the D made a mistake, maybe you are playing Rodgers or somebody else who is going to move the ball - and guys like Wilson have proven they can do it. Alex hasn't.

You can't say with a straight face that when KC gives up a lead that you have confidence they can mount a comeback. I really can't believe more than 50% of this board thinks Wilson is similar to Smith. It's mind boggling to me that people think a 3rd year QB with a Super Bowl win, who put his team in position to win another Super Bowl, and who took the lead 2 years ago with less than a minute left in the playoffs is of the same caliber as a 10 year vet with no accomplishments other than a single playoff victory against the Saints.

Chiefnj2 · 07-02-2015, 02:51 PM

Can't stick around for any more Smith debate. Don't blow off your fingers this weekend.

DJ's left nut · 07-02-2015, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

The results of making plays with this feet absolutely offset so many of the comparisons between Russell and Smith.

The former is mediocre--he's Smith--without the dynamic element he adds on the ground, which is exactly why he must get paid like a passing superstar right now (because he's not).

No doubt - who he is now is a damn dynamic weapon.

But who he was in 2013 - when he won a title - wasn't appreciably different from what we can expect from Smith.

33 YPG; Longest carry of 27 yards; 6.0 YPC. Smith was at 29 YPG in 2013 with a long of 26. Last year he was down a bit with 17 YPG but his yards per carry were about the same as the year prior - 5.2 vs. 5.7.

I'm not going to try to argue that we can expect the same performance from Smith that the Seahawks can from Wilson - that's not terribly realistic. But we CAN expect the same performance from Smith that the Seahawks got from Wilson in 2013. And there's nothing by way of raw talent elsewhere on that 2013 Seahawks team to suggest that the Chiefs can't follow that recipe.

It's not the ideal way to do it, no. I think we both agree that the best way to win a championship would be to get a superstar QB for below market and hold onto him like grim death. But this approach is a doable way and the 2013 Seahawks proved that.

I just don't understand the fatalism.

beach tribe · 07-02-2015, 02:55 PM

Man, this schedule. This team. I really think we are in for one of the best seasons of our lives.
We stay healthy and we are going to get the national stage to make our mark, and enforce it.

-King- · 07-02-2015, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

2nd half Alex Smith didn't do much of anything, primarily because Reid shit the bed with his playcalling. But that is beside the point. At some point in the playoffs a QB has to step up for whatever reason - maybe bad play on the QB's part early in the game, maybe the D made a mistake, maybe you are playing Rodgers or somebody else who is going to move the ball - and guys like Wilson have proven they can do it. Alex hasn't.

You can't say with a straight face that when KC gives up a lead that you have confidence they can mount a comeback. I really can't believe more than 50% of this board thinks Wilson is similar to Smith. It's mind boggling to me that people think a 3rd year QB with a Super Bowl win, who put his team in position to win another Super Bowl, and who took the lead 2 years ago with less than a minute left in the playoffs is of the same caliber as a 10 year vet with no accomplishments other than a single playoff victory against the Saints.

Putting up 13 points in a half should win you the vast majority of games. 13 points per half would make you a top 10 offense in the league.

So yeah, 2nd half Alex should have still won the game.

ChiefsCountry · 07-02-2015, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

That's not what Chiefs Country said.

He said they cannot be a Super Bowl contender with Alex Smith at QB. That's absurd.

As to what bet I'd be willing to make - really? You're saying that in a 'Chiefs vs. the field' bet that you'd take the field? Well man, that's going out on a limb right there.

I've said this before, I'll say it again - the odds overwhelmingly suggest that the Chiefs won't win a SB this year. There are 32 teams and only 1 of them win the damn thing. But again, I'd take the field over every single team in football and there are only 3 teams in the AFC who's odds should be appreciably better than KCs. Even that's arguable - for instance, if our D is as good as it can be, then our D is as good as Pitt's O - is our O better than Pitt's D? I think it is. We have no idea what Manning will be.

To blast Boss for saying the Chiefs are building a potential SB team while saying 'eh, the Chiefs can't win shit with Alex Smith' is just the highest of hypocrisy. It's dogmatic, worthless garbage that does a hell of a lot more to turn posters off than acknowledging that Dorsey's done some damn good things with this team over the last 2+ seasons and there's reason to suggest he can continue doing so.

We are a 10-6 Wildcard, maybe if things go right win the AFC West squad. We aren't some monster badass take names in the playoffs team. If we had an elite QB, we would be in the talking for sure but we don't. We have an elite running game and an elite pass rush (barring Houston getting resigned), the rest of the team is a bunch of question marks. We can beat some good teams and lose to some shitty ones. Have a winning season and for the most part be pretty successful. Nothing wrong with what we have, but we aren't building the 90s Cowboys here.

**dirk digler** · 07-02-2015, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

2nd half Alex Smith didn't do much of anything, primarily because Reid shit the bed with his playcalling. But that is beside the point. At some point in the playoffs a QB has to step up for whatever reason - maybe bad play on the QB's part early in the game, maybe the D made a mistake, maybe you are playing Rodgers or somebody else who is going to move the ball - and guys like Wilson have proven they can do it. Alex hasn't.

You can't say with a straight face that when KC gives up a lead that you have confidence they can mount a comeback. I really can't believe more than 50% of this board thinks Wilson is similar to Smith. It's mind boggling to me that people think a 3rd year QB with a Super Bowl win, who put his team in position to win another Super Bowl, and who took the lead 2 years ago with less than a minute left in the playoffs is of the same caliber as a 10 year vet with no accomplishments other than a single playoff victory against the Saints.

yep

Hootie · 07-02-2015, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -King-

It's like people for some reason are arguing how the Seahawks won the superbowl that year and that Wilson was the 3rd most important piece on the team behind the defense and Marshawn Lynch.

174 yards per game. 1 TD per game. That's what Wilson did in that title run. And because of the defense and running game, despite those below average Wilson numbers, they won pretty much each game comfortably.

You're truly ****ing stupid

-King- · 07-02-2015, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

We are a 10-6 Wildcard, maybe if things go right win the AFC West squad. We aren't some monster badass take names in the playoffs team. If we had an elite QB, we would be in the talking for sure but we don't. We have an elite running game and an elite pass rush (barring Houston getting resigned), the rest of the team is a bunch of question marks. We can beat some good teams and lose to some shitty ones. Have a winning season and for the most part be pretty successful. Nothing wrong with what we have, but we aren't building the 90s Cowboys here.

The majority teams aren't the 90s cowboys. No one is expecting a 5 year superbowl run or anything like that. But this team CAN win in the playoffs and can make it to the superbowl. If we had an elite QB, it would be easier, but only a few teams have elite QBs and they too lose in the playoffs most of the time.

ViperVisor · 07-02-2015, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

I really can't believe more than 50% of this board thinks Wilson is similar to Smith. It's mind boggling to me that people think a 3rd year QB with a Super Bowl win, who put his team in position to win another Super Bowl, and who took the lead 2 years ago with less than a minute left in the playoffs is of the same caliber as a 10 year vet with no accomplishments other than a single playoff victory against the Saints.

Slightly modify a few words and it's 1 of a number of names I don't hear shouted as often as good replacements for Smith.

Colin Kaepernick
Matthew Stafford
Mark Sanchez
Jay Cutler
Andy Dalton
Robert Griffin
Geno Smith
Vince Young

Others like should trade for McNabb or draft Jimmy Clausen were legit ideas from professional football talking heads.

There are the few very best QB and then it's a the best of the rest. Somehow the what if of Wilson is the shining star to point to now that the giant pile of other recent QBs other than Luck is mostly wreckage.

Why nitpick impossible BS?
No **** Sherlock. Lets cut to the chase.
How bout the 49ers drafted Rodgers instead of Smith. Or KC takes him before GB.

Hootie · 07-02-2015, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -King-

It's like people for some reason are arguing how the Seahawks won the superbowl that year and that Wilson was the 3rd most important piece on the team behind the defense and Marshawn Lynch.

174 yards per game. 1 TD per game. That's what Wilson did in that title run. And because of the defense and running game, despite those below average Wilson numbers, they won pretty much each game comfortably.

Do these stats paint the play, on 4th and 2 from the 40, where Wilson hard counted the equally as dominant 49ers defense, in the 4th quarter, and threw a perfect TD pass to Jermaine Kearse on a free play that he orchestrated by being extremely aware and intelligent in a high stress, pressure situation? Or ... No?

**dirk digler** · 07-02-2015, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I just don't understand the fatalism.

Really? Outside of Montana and Green when has a retread QB worked out for this team? We only gone through about 100 of them with no success.

07-01-2015, 02:04 PM
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $4711115	It's been a long time coming. Adiós. It's time for me to bow out. It's been almost 10 years, and I'm tired. Tired of the false narratives. Tired of people arguing the poster instead of the post. Tired of discussing football with people who favor excuses over evidence. Tired of wasting time talking about an organization that hasn't won a playoff game in the lifetime of a college senior. Tired of watching other great posters leaving entirely or posting less, weakening the Football IQ this place was known for 5-10 years ago. I know posting a thread instead of just walking away will open the door for many to take their cheap shots - we all know who they are - and if you don't, just wait. They'll show themselves. Those of you that know me privately know this has been building for a long time. With all that said, I'll say what I've always said: This team has talent, but will continually fall short as long as they keep thinking you can win in the postseason consistently with average QB play. You don't put enough pressure on the opposing defense, and it puts too much pressure on your defense - if they don't have a near-perfect day, you lose. Peters and Conley were great picks and should make an impact in the years to come. Should be fun to watch. (What? According to some, I NEVER say anything positive - just another false narrative) While I doubt he'll get his shot, I'd like to see if Murray can be that franchise guy, or if he fell for reasons other than what people here assume - namely, his height and injury history. Hopefully they get Houston signed long-term, because if they don't they are in deep, deep shit. The defense tends to carry this team, and Houston is the most important cog in said defense. I've made a lot of great friends here that are still friends to this day, and will continue to be. This place was awesome when it was more community based - when there would be gatherings, tailgates, etc. Now, it's littered with trolls that take advantage of the anonymity of the internet and would never show their face in public. That attitude has weakened this place considerably, IMHO. For those of you I call a friend, we'll be in touch. If anyone that isn't already a friend privately or on Facebook/Twitter wants to continue to keep in touch, I'll keep my PM's open for a week or so. Thanks, Kyle. It was fun for a while. Queue the "well, bye/sour grapes" posts in 3...2...1.
Posts: 60,273

07-02-2015, 02:51 PM	#305
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $7813688	Can't stick around for any more Smith debate. Don't blow off your fingers this weekend. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,396

07-02-2015, 02:55 PM	#307
beach tribe Keep doubting J MFing Houston Join Date: May 2007 Location: ft.lauderdale Casino cash: $4698036	Man, this schedule. This team. I really think we are in for one of the best seasons of our lives. We stay healthy and we are going to get the national stage to make our mark, and enforce it.
Posts: 21,429