Chiefs Has our defense been HARSHLY judged? - Page 20

UChieffyBugger · 04:41 PM

It seems to be in fashion to knock the Chiefs defense. WE as fans slaughter them daily, the local press slaughter then daily, the NATIONAL and INTERNATIONAL media slaughter them daily, and when I sit and think about the circumstances sounding that group, one could argue that they are getting judged a little harshly.

Now let's start with the preseason. Ragland and Hitchens played ONE warm-up together against the Bears and both missed several practice sessions. Nelson got knocked out of the Atlanta game and missed sessions himself, whilst Parker wasn't even In our building during the preseason. Then we have Ford who Is just returning to the team after being out for most of last season, and Houston barely played In the warm-up games himself.

Last year there was a perception that we had "the worst defense known to man", but I argued it was an overblown notion because the reality was that we were around fifteenth In the points allowed tally. But that notion has stuck with the team and now this unit that has barely played together Is thrown together and Is trying to both gel as a unit and get their football legs going all whilst facing TWO quality offenses on the road. The Pats defense started off badly too last year and then managed to be a decent unit until the superbowl where they contrived to drop their best corner, so there is a clear example of how things can change quickly In this game.

**The Franchise** · 09-28-2018, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

One thing we can't deny is that defense is gone this season.

The NFL defense has adapted to the PI rule changes and this is what it looks like.

QB's almost across the board are having career years and breaking records.

Even two of the top defenses in the league got torched for over 400 yards passing last night.

After these first three weeks it's pretty clear that the NFL is an offensive sprint. Defenses, no matter how stacked, can't keep up with a decent passing attack. The best passing attack will win the SB.

Then we're ****ing golden right? Andy Reid saw this coming and built a God of an offense.

Mecca · 09-28-2018, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

You're pointing to 1 poor game in which their top corner was out (and the other maybe not 100%)?

They have a 200 million dollar defensive line and go several players deep at CB and have a top of the line FS.

Talib being out is not why they gave up those yards.

RaidersOftheCellar · 09-28-2018, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

He had 1 star at each level - Poe, Houston, and Berry.

And they were a top 5 defense 3 years in a row. Not as talented as Denver, not as talent as LA, not as talent as Philly. And yet, routinely performed just as well.

But by all means, run Sutton out of town on a rail. Everybody wants a scapegoat.

Are you talking about 2013-15?

The defense was pretty good in '14 and '15. It's sucked every other year.

htismaqe · 09-28-2018, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

Are you talking about 2013-15?

The defense was pretty good in '14 and '15. It's sucked every other year.

Gave up some yards in 2013 and 2016 but still top 10 in points against. That's not "suck".

Hoover · 09-28-2018, 10:28 AM

Call me crazy, but I think this years D has been better than last years.

Every game has been a shoot out, won by the Chiefs. We have faced three good/great QBs. But the Defense has forced a stop on our opponents first drives in each game, allowing the Chiefs to not only get off to an early lead, but we have also gotten the ball to start the second half. Maybe that's only happed 2/3 times, but it seems like we have scored first despite not taking the opening kick. Thats a positive.

We have also made key stops in the second half. It's frustrating to get thrown on repeatedly, but I see room for improvement yet this season. I mean we have NOBODY at the saftey position. NOBODY.

htismaqe · 09-28-2018, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

You're pointing to 1 poor game in which their top corner was out (and the other maybe not 100%)?

The Vikings got torched by the BILLS last week. If you really want me to bombard you with examples I will but hopefully you're smarter than that.

RaidersOftheCellar · 09-28-2018, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

No, it doesn't. I watched this defense carry this team for 4 years. I know exactly what is going on.

Did the defense carry the team or did ball control offense keep the defense off the field?

Are you forgetting that the Chiefs dominated time of possession during the so-called good years?

Don't forget Houston's anomaly of 22 sacks in '14. That'll make a D-coordinator look good.

htismaqe · 09-28-2018, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

Don't forget Houston's anomaly of 22 sacks in '14. That'll make a D-coordinator look good.

More proof that players matter more than coaching.

RaidersOftheCellar · 09-28-2018, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Gave up some yards in 2013 and 2016 but still top 10 in points against. That's not "suck".

Because of ball control offense and a ridiculous number of turnovers.

The 2013 D wasn't awful, but it certainly wasn't good. 2016 was flat out bad. I don't care about points allowed. Use your eyes. Without an absurd turnover margin, the points allowed is a lot different. We've seen the law of averages balance it out since then.

Teams carved through that defense at will. I never had any faith whatsoever that they'd get a stop. If you're being honest, you'd admit the same.

RaidersOftheCellar · 09-28-2018, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

More proof that players matter more than coaching.

That's only proof that it takes players playing at an absurd level to make Sutton look good.

For the record, I don't think Sutton is the worst DC out there. But to say that a great DC wouldn't make a difference for this team is ridiculous in my opinion.

htismaqe · 09-28-2018, 10:40 AM

As for the TOP argument, the Chiefs defense ranked as follows in average plays per drive:

2013 - 9th
2014 - 27th
2015 - 22nd
2016 - 24th
2017 - 25th

The offense hadn't been keeping the defense off the field. The defense was continually on the field more than all but 10 or so defenses in the league, yet in the top 10 in scoring every year. That's a TRIUMPH of scheme. It doesn't get any more successful than that.

ToxSocks · 09-28-2018, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

You're pointing to 1 poor game in which their top corner was out (and the other maybe not 100%)?

No. He's pointing to a pattern around the league that's easily recognizable.

htismaqe · 09-28-2018, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

Because of ball control offense and a ridiculous number of turnovers.

The 2013 D wasn't awful, but it certainly wasn't good. 2016 was flat out bad. I don't care about points allowed. Use your eyes. Without an absurd turnover margin, the points allowed is a lot different. We've seen the law of averages balance it out since then.

Teams carved through that defense at will. I never had any faith whatsoever that they'd get a stop. If you're being honest, you'd admit the same.

The Chiefs 2014 defense was 30th in turnover percentage and 2nd in points allowed. Try again.

ToxSocks · 09-28-2018, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Basically you assemble a top offense and hope your defense can grab a few stops. Spending a lot of money on a defense like say Jacksonville has is a losing proposition because if your offense stagnates the odds of you winning with 17 points are very small.

Yup. Just look at the SB.

Of course some games will be won by a game clenching INT or Sack, and people will go and scream, "See! D's win championships" while ignoring the final score of 42-38.

ToxSocks · 09-28-2018, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pest

Then we're ****ing golden right? Andy Reid saw this coming and built a God of an offense.

That's im what going with for now.

09-21-2018, 04:35 PM
UChieffyBugger CP'S "MOST HATED" 😆 Join Date: Feb 2018 Casino cash: $2360400	Has our defense been HARSHLY judged? It seems to be in fashion to knock the Chiefs defense. WE as fans slaughter them daily, the local press slaughter then daily, the NATIONAL and INTERNATIONAL media slaughter them daily, and when I sit and think about the circumstances sounding that group, one could argue that they are getting judged a little harshly. Now let's start with the preseason. Ragland and Hitchens played ONE warm-up together against the Bears and both missed several practice sessions. Nelson got knocked out of the Atlanta game and missed sessions himself, whilst Parker wasn't even In our building during the preseason. Then we have Ford who Is just returning to the team after being out for most of last season, and Houston barely played In the warm-up games himself. Last year there was a perception that we had "the worst defense known to man", but I argued it was an overblown notion because the reality was that we were around fifteenth In the points allowed tally. But that notion has stuck with the team and now this unit that has barely played together Is thrown together and Is trying to both gel as a unit and get their football legs going all whilst facing TWO quality offenses on the road. The Pats defense started off badly too last year and then managed to be a decent unit until the superbowl where they contrived to drop their best corner, so there is a clear example of how things can change quickly In this game. Last edited by UChieffyBugger; 09-21-2018 at 04:41 PM..
Posts: 4,376

09-28-2018, 10:28 AM	#290
Hoover Rufus Dawes Jr. Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $1408179	Call me crazy, but I think this years D has been better than last years. Every game has been a shoot out, won by the Chiefs. We have faced three good/great QBs. But the Defense has forced a stop on our opponents first drives in each game, allowing the Chiefs to not only get off to an early lead, but we have also gotten the ball to start the second half. Maybe that's only happed 2/3 times, but it seems like we have scored first despite not taking the opening kick. Thats a positive. We have also made key stops in the second half. It's frustrating to get thrown on repeatedly, but I see room for improvement yet this season. I mean we have NOBODY at the saftey position. NOBODY.
Posts: 17,385	1 0

09-28-2018, 10:40 AM	#296
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $10269900	As for the TOP argument, the Chiefs defense ranked as follows in average plays per drive: 2013 - 9th 2014 - 27th 2015 - 22nd 2016 - 24th 2017 - 25th The offense hadn't been keeping the defense off the field. The defense was continually on the field more than all but 10 or so defenses in the league, yet in the top 10 in scoring every year. That's a TRIUMPH of scheme. It doesn't get any more successful than that.
Posts: 100,022