Football Likely baseless rumor: Luck wants out - Page 2

DJ's left nut · 09-14-2017, 10:05 AM

It's mostly just some Twitter rumbling and an article here and there in Indy, but there are some quiet rumors (evidently over Luck's objection) that suggest that he may want out.

So the question becomes, what is the trade value of a quarterback who may not be healthy at any point this year and will be 29 next year, who has a bit of an alarming injury history now and who's contract is now not an asset of any sort?

Is it a kings ransom kind of deal; like could/should Cleveland offer that absurd haul of picks they have in the coming year+ for him. Or is it far less than that due to the injury concerns, contract and the fact that he's simply not a young QB anymore?

Now onto the Chiefs related question - if the Colts approach us in the off-season and offer him for Smith and Mahomes (Smith would presumably be necessary for cap purposes on our end), what's the consensus?

Personally, if the medicals check out, I pull the trigger and not think twice. It would theoretically shorten our window by it may also push it open wider in the coming years. Then again, that contract also likely costs us Marcus Peters given that he'd be a FA prior to Mahomes needing to be paid. Maybe Hill. Maybe Jones. Maybe Morse. The bottom line is that it will cost us at least one member of this young core in all likelihood.

So do you spin the wheel and take your chances that Mahomes can be 90% as good as Luck while being healthier and cheaper? Or do you grab the guy who looked like potentially the best QB in football at times and worry about the consequences later?

It's a closer call than I imagined it might be at first blush.

Hammock Parties · 09-14-2017, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Luck the prospect va luck the pro is a little different to me. Granted he's been good and won some games, but at this point, can't you pretty easily say he's underachieved and hasn't become what he was suppose to?

The guy will throw for 4500 yards and 30 TD in his sleep on a decent team.

Isn't that what he's supposed to be?

O.city · 09-14-2017, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

The guy will throw for 4500 yards and 30 TD in his sleep on a decent team.

Isn't that what he's supposed to be?

Probably

Again, he's been good. But he was supposed to be this transcendent player. He still throws a lot of picks

Hammock Parties · 09-14-2017, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Probably

Again, he's been good. But he was supposed to be this transcendent player. He still throws a lot of picks

I don't think 1 pick per game is a lot considering the team he's been on.

DJ's left nut · 09-14-2017, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Luck the prospect va luck the pro is a little different to me. Granted he's been good and won some games, but at this point, can't you pretty easily say he's underachieved and hasn't become what he was suppose to?

Can't you just as easily say that no GM in professional sports has been as bad at his job as Ryan Grigson has been at his over the course of Luck's career?

As the ultimate team sport, that has to be included on Luck's resume.

The question becomes whether or not Luck can shake off the damage done. Let's not forget that Luck, with a bum wing and terrible O-Line, managed almost 8 yards per attempt last season in a season where very little seemed to actually go right for that team. Even his 'down' year wasn't really that down.

I'm just intrigued by what Luck could be in a stable organization with a good OL and talented defense/supporting cast. What would prevent him from capitalizing on the generational talent he had coming into the league?

O.city · 09-14-2017, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

I don't think 1 pick per game is a lot considering the team he's been on.

Again, no it's not

But he was supposed to be Peyton2.0.

Dunno that he gets there. Maybe I'm blinded by the prospectstuff tho

DJ's left nut · 09-14-2017, 10:23 AM

Huh.

Well based on the results so far, CP has looked at the roster and determined that the Kansas City Chiefs....of all organizations...have a better QB situation than a team that employs arguably the most talented QB prospect to have come out of the draft in 30 years.

Who'da thunkit?

O.city · 09-14-2017, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Can't you just as easily say that no GM in professional sports has been as bad at his job as Ryan Grigson has been at his over the course of Luck's career?

As the ultimate team sport, that has to be included on Luck's resume.

The question becomes whether or not Luck can shake off the damage done. Let's not forget that Luck, with a bum wing and terrible O-Line, managed almost 8 yards per attempt last season in a season where very little seemed to actually go right for that team. Even his 'down' year wasn't really that down.

I'm just intrigued by what Luck could be in a stable organization with a good OL and talented defense/supporting cast. What would prevent him from capitalizing on the generational talent he had coming into the league?

Yeah, the colts have been awful. Like, yeah, that bad.

But shoulder injuries, mental issues etc. I dunno

O.city · 09-14-2017, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Huh.

Well based on the results so far, CP has looked at the roster and determined that the Kansas City Chiefs....of all organizations...have a better QB situation than a team that employs arguably the most talented QB prospect to have come out of the draft in 30 years.

Who'da thunkit?

For me, I think it comes down to

I can have a blank slate in Mahomes that's A1 prime cut tippy top of the line beef to pair with a master chef in Reid from the beginning before the meat has been touched

Or the same cut of meat that's been passed around and cut in a bit

**DaneMcCloud** · 09-14-2017, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Huh.

Well based on the results so far, CP has looked at the roster and determined that the Kansas City Chiefs....of all organizations...have a better QB situation than a team that employs arguably the most talented QB prospect to have come out of the draft in 30 years.

Who'da thunkit?

I think Luck is broken. That doesn't mean that he can't return to form at some point, but he's definitely broken in Indy.

If he was traded to a team like the Jets, I bet he wouldn't last two more seasons but if he was traded to a team like the 49ers, he might well revive his career due to Shanahan.

That said, I don't think he's a risk worth taking for the Chiefs, especially in 2017.

**The Franchise** · 09-14-2017, 10:26 AM

If Luck wasn't hurt a lot of the time.....then I'd possibly think about it. But I like Mahomes and his upside over Luck with his injury history.

I would however be just fine with trading Smith to them so that they have a starting QB.

**The Franchise** · 09-14-2017, 10:27 AM

If I'm the Redskins....I'd let Cousins walk and trade for Luck.

**DaneMcCloud** · 09-14-2017, 10:30 AM

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Ballard floated this rumor as a "Trial Balloon".

Here's another interesting thought: Yes, it's extremely early in the 2017 season but there remains the possibility that Cleveland owns either the #1 and #2 overall picks in the first and second round of the 2018 draft due to their trades with the Texans earlier this year.

It's also possible that they have the #2 & #3 overall picks in each of the first two rounds and the Jets, who IMO, have the distinct possibility of going 0-16 and at that point, have a decision to make because Darnold has indicated that he may not come out in 2018 and at this point, who could blame him if the Jets have the #1 overall pick?

But back to the scenario: It's possible and maybe even likely the Cleveland corners the market on QB's in the 2018 draft.

Crazy.

**The Franchise** · 09-14-2017, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Ballard floated this rumor as a "Trial Balloon".

Here's another interesting thought: Yes, it's extremely early in the 2017 season but there remains the possibility that Cleveland owns either the #1 and #2 overall picks in the first and second round of the 2018 draft due to their trades with the Texans earlier this year.

It's also possible that they have the #2 & #3 overall picks in each of the first two rounds and the Jets, who IMO, have the distinct possibility of going 0-16 and at that point, have a decision to make because Darnold has indicated that he may not come out in 2018 and at this point, who could blame him if the Jets have the #1 overall pick?

But back to the scenario: It's possible and maybe even likely the Cleveland corners the market on QB's in the 2018 draft.

Crazy.

And what's even crazier is if Kizer grows throughout the year.....they won't even need a ****ing QB. They could sell their pick to the highest bidder or take the best player in the draft.

eDave · 09-14-2017, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Of course they are. The odds are against ANYONE becoming an elite quarterback, even Luck.

There are a million different ways a quarterback can just miss being truly great. Prior to last year, a guy like Matt Ryan is firmly in that group (and hell, with Shanahan gone he looked more like the good but not great player he'd been in years past last week).

Yeah, the odds of any quarterback ascending into that truly elite tier are extremely long.

I understand. Thanks.

I definitely see the traits of one in Majomes. So I'd still ride with him, and Andy.

I hope the Colts front office has a heart and lets him go and succeed. His talent deserves it.

ToxSocks · 09-14-2017, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

For me, I think it comes down to

I can have a blank slate in Mahomes that's A1 prime cut tippy top of the line beef to pair with a master chef in Reid from the beginning before the meat has been touched

Or the same cut of meat that's been passed around and cut in a bit

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I think Luck is broken. That doesn't mean that he can't return to form at some point, but he's definitely broken in Indy.

If he was traded to a team like the Jets, I bet he wouldn't last two more seasons but if he was traded to a team like the 49ers, he might well revive his career due to Shanahan.

That said, I don't think he's a risk worth taking for the Chiefs, especially in 2017.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence

If Luck wasn't hurt a lot of the time.....then I'd possibly think about it. But I like Mahomes and his upside over Luck with his injury history.

I would however be just fine with trading Smith to them so that they have a starting QB.

Yeah pretty much these.

View Poll Results: Mahomes (and Smith if needed) for Luck, yes or no?
Yes, I'd trade Mahomes (and Smith) for Luck	5	3.85%
Nope, I'd roll with what we have	125	96.15%
Voters: 130. You may not vote on this poll

09-14-2017, 10:05 AM
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $2689099	Likely baseless rumor: Luck wants out It's mostly just some Twitter rumbling and an article here and there in Indy, but there are some quiet rumors (evidently over Luck's objection) that suggest that he may want out. So the question becomes, what is the trade value of a quarterback who may not be healthy at any point this year and will be 29 next year, who has a bit of an alarming injury history now and who's contract is now not an asset of any sort? Is it a kings ransom kind of deal; like could/should Cleveland offer that absurd haul of picks they have in the coming year+ for him. Or is it far less than that due to the injury concerns, contract and the fact that he's simply not a young QB anymore? Now onto the Chiefs related question - if the Colts approach us in the off-season and offer him for Smith and Mahomes (Smith would presumably be necessary for cap purposes on our end), what's the consensus? Personally, if the medicals check out, I pull the trigger and not think twice. It would theoretically shorten our window by it may also push it open wider in the coming years. Then again, that contract also likely costs us Marcus Peters given that he'd be a FA prior to Mahomes needing to be paid. Maybe Hill. Maybe Jones. Maybe Morse. The bottom line is that it will cost us at least one member of this young core in all likelihood. So do you spin the wheel and take your chances that Mahomes can be 90% as good as Luck while being healthier and cheaper? Or do you grab the guy who looked like potentially the best QB in football at times and worry about the consequences later? It's a closer call than I imagined it might be at first blush.
Posts: 60,796

09-14-2017, 10:23 AM	#21
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $2689099	Huh. Well based on the results so far, CP has looked at the roster and determined that the Kansas City Chiefs....of all organizations...have a better QB situation than a team that employs arguably the most talented QB prospect to have come out of the draft in 30 years. Who'da thunkit? __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 60,796

09-14-2017, 10:26 AM	#25
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $2785047	If Luck wasn't hurt a lot of the time.....then I'd possibly think about it. But I like Mahomes and his upside over Luck with his injury history. I would however be just fine with trading Smith to them so that they have a starting QB.
Posts: 92,300

09-14-2017, 10:27 AM	#26
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $2785047	If I'm the Redskins....I'd let Cousins walk and trade for Luck.
Posts: 92,300

09-14-2017, 10:30 AM	#27
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Ballard floated this rumor as a "Trial Balloon". Here's another interesting thought: Yes, it's extremely early in the 2017 season but there remains the possibility that Cleveland owns either the #1 and #2 overall picks in the first and second round of the 2018 draft due to their trades with the Texans earlier this year. It's also possible that they have the #2 & #3 overall picks in each of the first two rounds and the Jets, who IMO, have the distinct possibility of going 0-16 and at that point, have a decision to make because Darnold has indicated that he may not come out in 2018 and at this point, who could blame him if the Jets have the #1 overall pick? But back to the scenario: It's possible and maybe even likely the Cleveland corners the market on QB's in the 2018 draft. Crazy.
Posts: 88,960