Chiefs Houston question - Page 2

**FRCDFED** · 03-03-2015, 09:40 AM

I know....not another thread about Houston right? However, I didn't want this to get buried in the mega-thread. Besides, there has been so much blame being tossed in the direction of the organization based on assumptions that I thought it prudent to try to spell out what we know and don't know:

At this point all we know is that:

1. The Chiefs and Houston's agent have not agreed on a deal.
2. Houston has been given the non-exclusive franchise tag allowing him to negotiate with other teams.
3. KC has the right to match any offer or receive two first round picks as compensation.
4. Houston's agent is busy running his mouth and threatening to hold out to week 10.

What we don't know:

1. How aggressive the KC front office has been trying to get a deal done.
2. What KC has offered.
3. What Houston's demands are.

Obviously, it takes two to make a deal happen. Many on here are automatically blaming the front office for failing to get a deal done with one of the most prolific defensive players KC has had since DT. Almost to a point to say pay the man whatever he wants.

I for one, do not agree with that philosophy. Those same people are the ones that thought Bowe should've been paid and are now complaining that he should take a pay cut or be released.

I think there are going to be some good indicators in the near future of just how serious the front office was negotiating with Houston and his agent.

What if Houston receives NO offers on the open market? What if no other team is willing to pay Houston the kind of coin he seeks and surrender two first round picks. This is a very plausible scenario. Then he is forced to sign his tender.

IMO if NO other team is willing to compensate Houston the way he seeks then that should be a tell-tale sign that his demands are too high. Tagging Houston and letting the market dictate his salary was a very smart move.

So should his home-town team AND the rest of the NFL decides he is not worth his asking price....and should Houston be forced to sign and play under his one-year tender and he holds out for 10 months.......then the writing is on the wall who is being unreasonable.

Let time sort this out...........

Why do we continue to blame the organization? Just because we haven't had playoff success in so long? Maybe this group is trying to finally get it right.....

stumppy · 03-03-2015, 09:54 AM

Welcome to knee jerk planet.

**FRCDFED** · 03-03-2015, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stumppy

Welcome to knee jerk planet.

Pretty much. Time will sort this thing out just as it does all things.

Dark Horse · 03-03-2015, 10:39 AM

First let me say I understand that Houston is a great player and a conerstone on this defense, however I'm not sure a 100 M contract to a non QB is the blue print for success in the NFL

Chiefnj2 · 03-03-2015, 10:43 AM

The problem with having to tag Houston is the 13.2 cap hit. If they had been able to reach a new agreement, the first year would have undoubtedly been a much lower cap hit for this year. The tag # hinders KC signing other FA's like Hudson.

ILChief · 03-03-2015, 10:43 AM

CP malcontents will always blame the Chiefs

Mr. Laz · 03-03-2015, 10:48 AM

If Houston wasn't asking for a 100-ish million dollar contract he would already be signed.

Dorsey has already overpaid all over the place, Houston must be asking for MORE than just being overpaid.

Imo

Beef Supreme · 03-03-2015, 10:50 AM

Houston, we have a problem.

Chiefnj2 · 03-03-2015, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

If Houston wasn't asking for a 100-ish million dollar contract he would already be signed.

Dorsey has already overpaid all over the place, Houston must be asking for MORE than just being overpaid.

Imo

If there is no chance of ever reaching a long term deal, KC will let him negotiate with other teams and then reach an agreement regarding value that will likely be less than 2 first rounders.

**FRCDFED** · 03-03-2015, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

If there is no chance of ever reaching a long term deal, KC will let him negotiate with other teams and then reach an agreement regarding value that will likely be less than 2 first rounders.

Mike and Mike this morning were questioning if there was any NON-QB that was worth two first round picks. For the most part they were discussing D. Thomas and D. Bryant. The only candidate they agreed on was JJ Watts.

With that being said.....if he has an attitude and someone else wants him then I wouldn't negotiate the picks. I would just agree with the other team that KC wouldn't match the salary, take the picks, and let him leave. Win-Win.

Frosty · 03-03-2015, 11:55 AM

Houston's holdout his rookie year, despite being a slotted 3rd round pick, leads me to think that he and/or his agent isn't the most reasonable when it comes to contract negotiations. Of course, that doesn't mean that the front office isn't also low balling him. This looks like it is going to be pretty contentious.

I also don't believe that the Chiefs would have been able to sign Houston last year, cheaper or not. They were up against the cap, which is why they didn't sign any free agents of note. There was no way they were in a position to take on a large contract. The only reason they were able to sign Alex Smith to a new contract was because the contract extension lowered Smith's cap hit from 9 million to 4.5 million. Houston didn't have much of a cap hit, being on the last year of a 3rd round rookie contract, so a new contract would have added money to the cap, which the Chiefs couldn't do. They didn't "choose" Alex over Houston; his contract was do-able and Houston's wasn't.

**FRCDFED** · 03-03-2015, 11:59 AM

Below was posted by DJ's left Nut over in Draft Planet about the situation. I think it sums the situation up nicely!:

Offer him a deal substantially similar to what Clay Matthews got but with a 10% bump for increased revenue and being a slightly better player.

You've now made him the top paid OLB in football and justifiably so. You've done so in a manner that is fair to the player and doesn't destroy the Chiefs ability to compete. You've essentially treated him the same way you treated Hali in his last negotiation and I'd say that worked out extremely well for both sides.

If he says no, you have him play out the tag (because he's bluffing; he won't sit out until week 10 - he's not made enough money to this point in his career to set $9 million on fire on general principals) and probably let him walk in 2016. I just don't know what else you can sensibly do. If you give him a deal like Mario Williams got, you'll barbecue your cap. If he would take a frontloaded deal like Watt got with monopoly money in year 6, I'd go ahead and cut Hali, Daniel and Bowe (June 1) to free up the money to make that happen. Watt's contract will be a huge benefit to the Texans from 2016-2019. The Chiefs could commit to that plan for 2015 and help themselves out immensely in trying to deal with Poe and Kelce in the coming years.

Honestly, at this point I don't think the Chiefs have a hell of a lot of say in the matter. It looks to me like Houston and his representation aren't terribly interested in finding a fit that won't also cripple the Chiefs (i.e. they're looking for that bullshit Mario Williams kind of deal) and if that's the case the Chiefs have to swallow hard and walk away.

nychief · 03-03-2015, 11:59 AM

Other than the florio hint, who has said the agent wants to hold out till week 10?

**FRCDFED** · 03-03-2015, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nychief

Other than the florio hint, who has said the agent wants to hold out till week 10?

I've seen it referenced in a few places but I'm not sure if they were all sourcing Florio or not.

nychief · 03-03-2015, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRCDFED

I've seen it referenced in a few places but I'm not sure if they were all sourcing Florio or not.

Yeah, that was what I thought. Seems like blather to me... He isn't sitting out 2/3 a season.

Chiefnj2 · 03-03-2015, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRCDFED

Mike and Mike this morning were questioning if there was any NON-QB that was worth two first round picks. For the most part they were discussing D. Thomas and D. Bryant. The only candidate they agreed on was JJ Watts.

With that being said.....if he has an attitude and someone else wants him then I wouldn't negotiate the picks. I would just agree with the other team that KC wouldn't match the salary, take the picks, and let him leave. Win-Win.

Nobody is going to give up two firsts.

03-03-2015, 09:40 AM
FRCDFED Line'em up Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: somewhere out there Casino cash: $9326297	Houston question I know....not another thread about Houston right? However, I didn't want this to get buried in the mega-thread. Besides, there has been so much blame being tossed in the direction of the organization based on assumptions that I thought it prudent to try to spell out what we know and don't know: At this point all we know is that: 1. The Chiefs and Houston's agent have not agreed on a deal. 2. Houston has been given the non-exclusive franchise tag allowing him to negotiate with other teams. 3. KC has the right to match any offer or receive two first round picks as compensation. 4. Houston's agent is busy running his mouth and threatening to hold out to week 10. What we don't know: 1. How aggressive the KC front office has been trying to get a deal done. 2. What KC has offered. 3. What Houston's demands are. Obviously, it takes two to make a deal happen. Many on here are automatically blaming the front office for failing to get a deal done with one of the most prolific defensive players KC has had since DT. Almost to a point to say pay the man whatever he wants. I for one, do not agree with that philosophy. Those same people are the ones that thought Bowe should've been paid and are now complaining that he should take a pay cut or be released. I think there are going to be some good indicators in the near future of just how serious the front office was negotiating with Houston and his agent. What if Houston receives NO offers on the open market? What if no other team is willing to pay Houston the kind of coin he seeks and surrender two first round picks. This is a very plausible scenario. Then he is forced to sign his tender. IMO if NO other team is willing to compensate Houston the way he seeks then that should be a tell-tale sign that his demands are too high. Tagging Houston and letting the market dictate his salary was a very smart move. So should his home-town team AND the rest of the NFL decides he is not worth his asking price....and should Houston be forced to sign and play under his one-year tender and he holds out for 10 months.......then the writing is on the wall who is being unreasonable. Let time sort this out........... Why do we continue to blame the organization? Just because we haven't had playoff success in so long? Maybe this group is trying to finally get it right.....
Posts: 3,185

03-03-2015, 09:54 AM	#16
stumppy New and Improved Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Springfield, Mo. Casino cash: $998590	Welcome to knee jerk planet. __________________ “As a nation, we can endure damaging policies for a four-year term. But we cannot survive a president willing to terminate our Constitution”
Posts: 21,297

03-03-2015, 10:39 AM	#18
Dark Horse Veteran Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Kansas Casino cash: $8335015	First let me say I understand that Houston is a great player and a conerstone on this defense, however I'm not sure a 100 M contract to a non QB is the blue print for success in the NFL
Posts: 1,399

03-03-2015, 10:43 AM	#19
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $7813688	The problem with having to tag Houston is the 13.2 cap hit. If they had been able to reach a new agreement, the first year would have undoubtedly been a much lower cap hit for this year. The tag # hinders KC signing other FA's like Hudson. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,396

03-03-2015, 10:43 AM	#20
ILChief MVP Join Date: Jan 2001 Casino cash: $7904831	CP malcontents will always blame the Chiefs
Posts: 11,477

03-03-2015, 10:48 AM	#21
Mr. Laz Don't Tease Me Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: KS Casino cash: $11047037	If Houston wasn't asking for a 100-ish million dollar contract he would already be signed. Dorsey has already overpaid all over the place, Houston must be asking for MORE than just being overpaid. Imo __________________
Posts: 95,626

03-03-2015, 10:50 AM	#22
Beef Supreme MVP Join Date: Oct 2010 Casino cash: $10019560	Houston, we have a problem.
Posts: 11,000

03-03-2015, 11:55 AM	#25
Frosty Go Beavers! Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Warshington Casino cash: $5388243	Houston's holdout his rookie year, despite being a slotted 3rd round pick, leads me to think that he and/or his agent isn't the most reasonable when it comes to contract negotiations. Of course, that doesn't mean that the front office isn't also low balling him. This looks like it is going to be pretty contentious. I also don't believe that the Chiefs would have been able to sign Houston last year, cheaper or not. They were up against the cap, which is why they didn't sign any free agents of note. There was no way they were in a position to take on a large contract. The only reason they were able to sign Alex Smith to a new contract was because the contract extension lowered Smith's cap hit from 9 million to 4.5 million. Houston didn't have much of a cap hit, being on the last year of a 3rd round rookie contract, so a new contract would have added money to the cap, which the Chiefs couldn't do. They didn't "choose" Alex over Houston; his contract was do-able and Houston's wasn't.
Posts: 14,502

03-03-2015, 11:59 AM	#26
FRCDFED Line'em up Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: somewhere out there Casino cash: $9326297	Below was posted by DJ's left Nut over in Draft Planet about the situation. I think it sums the situation up nicely!: Offer him a deal substantially similar to what Clay Matthews got but with a 10% bump for increased revenue and being a slightly better player. You've now made him the top paid OLB in football and justifiably so. You've done so in a manner that is fair to the player and doesn't destroy the Chiefs ability to compete. You've essentially treated him the same way you treated Hali in his last negotiation and I'd say that worked out extremely well for both sides. If he says no, you have him play out the tag (because he's bluffing; he won't sit out until week 10 - he's not made enough money to this point in his career to set $9 million on fire on general principals) and probably let him walk in 2016. I just don't know what else you can sensibly do. If you give him a deal like Mario Williams got, you'll barbecue your cap. If he would take a frontloaded deal like Watt got with monopoly money in year 6, I'd go ahead and cut Hali, Daniel and Bowe (June 1) to free up the money to make that happen. Watt's contract will be a huge benefit to the Texans from 2016-2019. The Chiefs could commit to that plan for 2015 and help themselves out immensely in trying to deal with Poe and Kelce in the coming years. Honestly, at this point I don't think the Chiefs have a hell of a lot of say in the matter. It looks to me like Houston and his representation aren't terribly interested in finding a fit that won't also cripple the Chiefs (i.e. they're looking for that bullshit Mario Williams kind of deal) and if that's the case the Chiefs have to swallow hard and walk away.
Posts: 3,185

03-03-2015, 11:59 AM	#27
nychief MVP Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NYC Casino cash: $6869466	Other than the florio hint, who has said the agent wants to hold out till week 10? __________________ Good Time Charlie, Uncle Doobie and the Great Frisco Freakout.
Posts: 7,898