Chiefs Vance Walker and backup NT - Page 2

**RealSNR** · 08-09-2014, 02:40 PM

I never really understood this whole playing Walker at NT thing the Chiefs are doing. I know it's one preseason game, but many people are commenting how Walker was kind of poopy.

Bob Sutton had pretty much the same thing to say in today's press conference:

“Vance, we had to move out to big end—he’s played inside. And that’s part of this camp too. We got to develop some depth here and some games we don’t take as many D-linemen in the game so somebody has got to be able to play multiple positions. So, they’re playing similar positions but I wouldn’t say they’re the exact same positions.”

So Walker IS going to play end primarily. Jaye Howard was listed as a NT for much of last year even though he didn't play a down until the final San Diego game. He's been playing end for us, and while he made one or two impressive plays, he was no more effective against the run than Walker was.

So we've got great rotational depth at DE with all kinds of options and still not much at the nose except on 3rd down when we shift a smaller guy inside. The same problem as last year.

Can anybody else wrap their minds around this? If we're playing Walker at nose just for the time being so they can get experience playing all positions, then who is our real backup NT? I'd like to hope it would be Howard, but the Chiefs seem to still think that guy is an end. And when the final roster comes out, we've got these bodies we need to fit in:

DeVito
Poe
Bailey
Catapano
Walker
Howard

That's 5 ends and no true backup NT. Unless we keep 7 guys, and it would be kind of unfortunate to keep around a worthless dicksack like Kyle Love instead of a promising lineman like Frenchie or a core special teams player.

What do you think?

mcaj22 · 08-09-2014, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flybone McTimmerson

He was brought in to give a pass rush from the DE spot. Have the other guys really shown so much that he's not making it on the field in that spot? I find it hard to believe he can't offer more of a pass rush than Devito, even with Devito slimming down.

and what has Vance Walker shown? that he played on a depleted bad Raiders team? That some guy from Englands analytics make him look good? So when that stupid website favors a Chiefs player it's a good metric to use but when the website doesn't favor a Chiefs player it sucks? That makes sense. The only reason you even know he's a good pass rusher is from PFF. Otherwise he's a nobody from a worse team than the Chiefs that we probably overpaid for in FA.

I'll take the homegrown draft pick talent (Cat, Bailey) or the cheap scrap heap find (Howard) or the known veteran (Devito) over that any day.

Why can't those in house DEs be better than him? Because they didn't get 12 million from our GM in FA?

MagicHef · 08-09-2014, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcaj22

and what has Vance Walker shown? that he played on a depleted bad Raiders team? That some guy from Englands analytics make him look good? So when that stupid website favors a Chiefs player it's a good metric to use but when the website doesn't favor a Chiefs player it sucks? That makes sense. The only reason you even know he's a good pass rusher is from PFF. Otherwise he's a nobody from a worse team than the Chiefs that we probably overpaid for in FA.

I'll take the homegrown draft pick talent (Cat, Bailey) or the cheap scrap heap find (Howard) or the known veteran (Devito) over that any day.

Why can't those in house DEs be better than him? Because they didn't get 12 million from our GM in FA?

He has more career sacks than every other DE in the roster combined, and that's with being in the league for less time than DeVito.

Providing interior pass rush is what his role has been so far both in Atlanta and Oakland. It's not like he's Sapp or Watt, but yes, his career so far shows that he is a better pass rusher than any other DE on the roster.

Apparently, though, he's not as good as some guy named Jaye Howard, who I don't think I've ever even heard of before.

ThaVirus · 08-09-2014, 07:35 PM

Hef is pimping a current Chief and former Raider.

Now I've seen it all..

MagicHef · 08-09-2014, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Hef is pimping a current Chief and former Raider.

Now I've seen it all..

Your just looking at it wrong. The fact that the best pass rushing DE on the roster is the backup NT is hilariously inept, not impressive.

**Easy 6** · 08-09-2014, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcaj22

and what has Vance Walker shown? that he played on a depleted bad Raiders team? That some guy from Englands analytics make him look good? So when that stupid website favors a Chiefs player it's a good metric to use but when the website doesn't favor a Chiefs player it sucks? That makes sense. The only reason you even know he's a good pass rusher is from PFF. Otherwise he's a nobody from a worse team than the Chiefs that we probably overpaid for in FA.

I'll take the homegrown draft pick talent (Cat, Bailey) or the cheap scrap heap find (Howard) or the known veteran (Devito) over that any day.

Why can't those in house DEs be better than him? Because they didn't get 12 million from our GM in FA?

Lotta common sense in this post.

Bottom line... backup NT still looks terrible.

**TimBone** · 08-09-2014, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicHef

He has more career sacks than every other DE in the roster combined, and that's with being in the league for less time than DeVito.

Providing interior pass rush is what his role has been so far both in Atlanta and Oakland. It's not like he's Sapp or Watt, but yes, his career so far shows that he is a better pass rusher than any other DE on the roster.

Apparently, though, he's not as good as some guy named Jaye Howard, who I don't think I've ever even heard of before.

I knew about him before we signed him, and not from his PFF stats. I have a close buddy that's a big Raiders fans so we discuss and watch each others players.

You do, however, make a fair point.

Direckshun · 08-09-2014, 09:18 PM

I think they just honestly plan on playing Poe 85% of the snaps again.

That, and if he goes down, I bet DeVito goes to nose.

**TimBone** · 08-09-2014, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I think they just honestly plan on playing Poe 85% of the snaps again.

That, and if he goes down, I bet DeVito goes to nose.

Well that's freaking stupid. Why does it feel like they didn't address any of the sore spots from last year? Shitty receivers? **** it. No Free Safety? **** it. Star Nose Tackle being played beyond his limits? **** it. At least we got DAT, though.

Direckshun · 08-09-2014, 09:34 PM

I think they saw the lack of receivers and the collapse of the passrush (along with Hali's imminent departure) as the primary concerns. They saw replacing Tyson Jackson and Brandon Flowers as their secondary concern.

If it weren't for the historic cluster**** that was the Emmanuel Sanders deal, he'd be in Chiefs red right now. The Chiefs likely wanted to go WR in the 1st, but the guy they probably wanted (Brandin Cooks is an Andy Reid receiver if ever there was one) went a couple picks before #23. So they went with Dee Ford as the passrush plug.

They landed Vance Walker in free agency, and figured the development of Allen Bailey and Mike Catapano would give them options. They are clearly counting on Marcus Cooper to help replace Flowers, and the Chiefs brought on Chris Owens and Phillip Gaines to boost their CB corps for Flowers' incoming departure.

So they did move to plug those holes, but yeah, they totally ****ing missed on WR, and it's not remotely clear that they even considered bringing in a NT. They literally never did until days before training camp.

milkman · 08-09-2014, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I think they saw the lack of receivers and the collapse of the passrush (along with Hali's imminent departure) as the primary concerns. They saw replacing Tyson Jackson and Brandon Flowers as their secondary concern.

If it weren't for the historic cluster**** that was the Emmanuel Sanders deal, he'd be in Chiefs red right now. The Chiefs likely wanted to go WR in the 1st, but the guy they probably wanted (Brandin Cooks is an Andy Reid receiver if ever there was one) went a couple picks before #23. So they went with Dee Ford as the passrush plug.

They landed Vance Walker in free agency, and figured the development of Allen Bailey and Mike Catapano would give them options. They are clearly counting on Marcus Cooper to help replace Flowers, and the Chiefs brought on Chris Owens and Phillip Gaines to boost their CB corps for Flowers' incoming departure.

So they did move to plug those holes, but yeah, they totally ****ing missed on WR, and it's not remotely clear that they even considered bringing in a NT. They literally never did until days before training camp.

Spin it.

This team did absolutely jack to plug last season's holes.

Direckshun · 08-09-2014, 10:32 PM

They tried with the limited resources they had.

You won't find me arguing that they've been successful doing so.

milkman · 08-09-2014, 10:36 PM

They didn't try shit, except with Sanders.

They used the draft to plug holes that they plan to create.

Jiu Jitsu Jon · 08-09-2014, 10:37 PM

You would think the Raiders would try to snag Chiefs in FA, and not vice versa.

Direckshun · 08-09-2014, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

They didn't try shit, except with Sanders.

They used the draft to plug holes that they plan to create.

They had in-house options for nearly everything.

Bailey + Catapano for Jackson
Fisher for Albert
the draft for Hali (imminent), Flowers (imminent), and McCluster
promoting Abdullah and the ill-fated return of Commings

Not exactly an improvement in talent, but yeah.

MagicHef · 08-09-2014, 10:43 PM

It's weird, because the Broncos needed help in pass rush, the secondary, and maybe at WR, with Decker's departure, so they...

Oh.

08-09-2014, 02:40 PM
RealSNR Special Teams ACE!!! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Where the hell is SNR Casino cash: $1870208	Vance Walker and backup NT I never really understood this whole playing Walker at NT thing the Chiefs are doing. I know it's one preseason game, but many people are commenting how Walker was kind of poopy. Bob Sutton had pretty much the same thing to say in today's press conference: “Vance, we had to move out to big end—he’s played inside. And that’s part of this camp too. We got to develop some depth here and some games we don’t take as many D-linemen in the game so somebody has got to be able to play multiple positions. So, they’re playing similar positions but I wouldn’t say they’re the exact same positions.” So Walker IS going to play end primarily. Jaye Howard was listed as a NT for much of last year even though he didn't play a down until the final San Diego game. He's been playing end for us, and while he made one or two impressive plays, he was no more effective against the run than Walker was. So we've got great rotational depth at DE with all kinds of options and still not much at the nose except on 3rd down when we shift a smaller guy inside. The same problem as last year. Can anybody else wrap their minds around this? If we're playing Walker at nose just for the time being so they can get experience playing all positions, then who is our real backup NT? I'd like to hope it would be Howard, but the Chiefs seem to still think that guy is an end. And when the final roster comes out, we've got these bodies we need to fit in: DeVito Poe Bailey Catapano Walker Howard That's 5 ends and no true backup NT. Unless we keep 7 guys, and it would be kind of unfortunate to keep around a worthless dicksack like Kyle Love instead of a promising lineman like Frenchie or a core special teams player. What do you think?
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08-09-2014, 07:35 PM	#18
ThaVirus You gotta kill a few people Join Date: Sep 2007 Casino cash: $1592369	Hef is pimping a current Chief and former Raider. Now I've seen it all..
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08-09-2014, 09:18 PM	#22
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $4133447	I think they just honestly plan on playing Poe 85% of the snaps again. That, and if he goes down, I bet DeVito goes to nose.
Posts: 59,323

08-09-2014, 09:34 PM	#24
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $4133447	I think they saw the lack of receivers and the collapse of the passrush (along with Hali's imminent departure) as the primary concerns. They saw replacing Tyson Jackson and Brandon Flowers as their secondary concern. If it weren't for the historic cluster** that was the Emmanuel Sanders deal, he'd be in Chiefs red right now. The Chiefs likely wanted to go WR in the 1st, but the guy they probably wanted (Brandin Cooks is an Andy Reid receiver if ever there was one) went a couple picks before #23. So they went with Dee Ford as the passrush plug. They landed Vance Walker in free agency, and figured the development of Allen Bailey and Mike Catapano would give them options. They are clearly counting on Marcus Cooper to help replace Flowers, and the Chiefs brought on Chris Owens and Phillip Gaines to boost their CB corps for Flowers' incoming departure. So they did move to plug those holes, but yeah, they totally **ing missed on WR, and it's not remotely clear that they even considered bringing in a NT. They literally never did until days before training camp.
Posts: 59,323

08-09-2014, 10:32 PM	#26
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $4133447	They tried with the limited resources they had. You won't find me arguing that they've been successful doing so.
Posts: 59,323

08-09-2014, 10:36 PM	#27
milkman Dumbass! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Leading the Marty bashing Casino cash: $10029395	They didn't try shit, except with Sanders. They used the draft to plug holes that they plan to create. __________________
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08-09-2014, 10:37 PM	#28
Jiu Jitsu Jon Level 40 Wizard Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Misery Casino cash: $10013080	You would think the Raiders would try to snag Chiefs in FA, and not vice versa. __________________ John Madden's three rules: 1. Be on time. 2. Pay attention. 3. Play like hell when I tell you to.
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08-09-2014, 10:43 PM	#30
MagicHef The Seated Villain Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Seattle Casino cash: $2100247	It's weird, because the Broncos needed help in pass rush, the secondary, and maybe at WR, with Decker's departure, so they... Oh.
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