Any HVAC experts want to weigh in on something...

[Bugeater]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Yep, I was referring to the backup electric heater I just assumed it's all part of the same air handler, I was probably wrong on that. I made that assumption because the damn air handler is MASSIVE, it's like the size of a refrigerator on its side.

It's something like this (but not exactly) http://www.goodmanmfg.com/Residentia...8/Default.aspx

My concern is the vast amount of labor required to replace the entire unit(I don't even see how it was put in in the first place) as compared to the POSSIBILITY of replacing just some of the guts (evap/coils). Of course, it may just be cheaper to buy the whole unit, I have no clue.

Oh hell, I've never even seen anything like that before, I can't even begin to tell you wtf you're up against.

This is what you see in homes up here:

[Chief Roundup]

Originally Posted by Bugeater

Ok, then it must be a heat pump with an electric backup furnace? You had me confused when you started talking about heating coils and blower motor. That's all part of the furnace and the heat pump system should be able to be replaced without touching that. The evap should be mounted in a plenum right above the furnace, it's not part of it.

Dude not true at all. The evaporator coil will ALWAYS be on the return side of the blower INSIDE the air handler cabinet when dealing with a heat pump.
A gas furnace will have the evap coil on the supply side of the heat exchanger but prior to the plenum box.

[Bugeater]

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup

Dude not true at all. The evaporator coil will ALWAYS be on the return side of the blower INSIDE the air handler cabinet when dealing with a heat pump.
A gas furnace will have the evap coil on the supply side of the heat exchanger but prior to the plenum box.

Huh, one of the apartment complexes I used to work at had heat pumps with gas furnace auxiliaries, and they were set up the same way with evap on the supply side.

[plbrdude]

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup

Dude not true at all. The evaporator coil will ALWAYS be on the return side of the blower INSIDE the air handler cabinet when dealing with a heat pump.
A gas furnace will have the evap coil on the supply side of the heat exchanger but prior to the plenum box.

on a newer one yes, but if you happen to run across a 30 yr old elect furnace or a touch older you will find the evap coil on the supply air side. people like to make lincoln squeal around here, i just charged a unit which is about a 35 yr old rheem elect furnace, 20k heat,and the a-coil sits on top in the supply air. tried to talkem into a new system, not yet they say. and no luck finding the leak.

[plbrdude]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Split system. Air handler inside with evap/coils and then I'd guess about 25 ft of line (3/8 and 7/8 does that sound right?) running outside to heat pump.

Inside coils have the leak.

if its a really old system your evap coil might be on the supply air side, if it's fairly new even within 20 yr the evap coil should be in the return air side. that being said you could replace the evap coil in the air handler. not knowing brand i would guess that the coil could run anywhere between 275 to 425. plus near to 5-8lb of r-22 depending on tonnage if its all leaked out. maybe 4 to 6 hr in lbr. 22 could be $20+ per lb now, lbr rates for that area may be well higher than $60 per hr. you could be pushing $1000 for just that.

the condensor you speak of changing is the outside unit, you don't convert a condensing unit from 22 to 410a. a/c or heat pump you change the unit, which also means you change the a-coil, which in this case prolly means the air handler. the line set can be left and flushed if its been brazed, if its been stay bright soldered best to change it too as 410 pressures are well higher than 22. on a hot day your liquid side could push toward 500psi; wouldn't trust stay bright.

unfortunately you're prolly lookin at a sysyem change out.the only other option if you want a newer outside unit is to see about a dry 22 unit, then go a coil and ht pmp if it's available.

that's my 2 cents worth anyways.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by plbrdude

if its a really old system your evap coil might be on the supply air side, if it's fairly new even within 20 yr the evap coil should be in the return air side. that being said you could replace the evap coil in the air handler. not knowing brand i would guess that the coil could run anywhere between 275 to 425. plus near to 5-8lb of r-22 depending on tonnage if its all leaked out. maybe 4 to 6 hr in lbr. 22 could be $20+ per lb now, lbr rates for that area may be well higher than $60 per hr. you could be pushing $1000 for just that.

the condensor you speak of changing is the outside unit, you don't convert a condensing unit from 22 to 410a. a/c or heat pump you change the unit, which also means you change the a-coil, which in this case prolly means the air handler. the line set can be left and flushed if its been brazed, if its been stay bright soldered best to change it too as 410 pressures are well higher than 22. on a hot day your liquid side could push toward 500psi; wouldn't trust stay bright.

unfortunately you're prolly lookin at a sysyem change out.the only other option if you want a newer outside unit is to see about a dry 22 unit, then go a coil and ht pmp if it's available.

that's my 2 cents worth anyways.

Thanks!

Yeah I knew you couldn't "convert" the outside condenser in the heat pump I was just thinking that since they have to replace the a-coil in the air handler (I'm assuming the a-coil and evap are same or am I way off here) that they could go with an a-coil that handles r410 (pretty sure the new Goodman's have same fittings) and go ahead and replace the heat pump's condenser as well. Or would you have to replace the entire heat pump?

I have no clue on the soldering, which obviously could be an issue.

Just so you know, the air handler is a Goodman A49-15, I think it may be from around 2000. Not sure on the make/model of heat pump but I know it was manufactured in July 2004.

[plbrdude]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Thanks!

Yeah I knew you couldn't "convert" the outside condenser in the heat pump I was just thinking that since they have to replace the a-coil in the air handler (I'm assuming the a-coil and evap are same or am I way off here) that they could go with an a-coil that handles r410 (pretty sure the new Goodman's have same fittings) and go ahead and replace the heat pump's condenser as well. Or would you have to replace the entire heat pump?

I have no clue on the soldering, which obviously could be an issue.

Just so you know, the air handler is a Goodman A49-15, I think it may be from around 2000. Not sure on the make/model of heat pump but I know it was manufactured in July 2004.

you very well may can get an a-coil, which is the evaporator. one to fit that should still be available, if the heat pump is only 9 yr old i'd be fairly temped to keep it.
the heat pump is the outside unit, so when you say the entire heat pump it would be the outside unit.

not sure if a 410a coil would fit in that air handler as they are usually a little bigger than a 22 coil. taller usually, which can be a headache.

if you were to upgrade to 410 it would prolly be wise to match system and change inside and out, just have line set checked close. it possibly could be left if it would be a total pain to change.

[Chief Roundup]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Thanks!

Yeah I knew you couldn't "convert" the outside condenser in the heat pump I was just thinking that since they have to replace the a-coil in the air handler (I'm assuming the a-coil and evap are same or am I way off here) that they could go with an a-coil that handles r410 (pretty sure the new Goodman's have same fittings) and go ahead and replace the heat pump's condenser as well. Or would you have to replace the entire heat pump?

I have no clue on the soldering, which obviously could be an issue.

Just so you know, the air handler is a Goodman A49-15, I think it may be from around 2000. Not sure on the make/model of heat pump but I know it was manufactured in July 2004.

As I have already informed you. You cannot put an R-22 coil or condenser with a 410a coil or condenser. Yes the evaporator coil is the same as an A , N or slab coil in the indoor unit.

If it is a Goodman unit replace the whole thing. Goodman products are the absolute bottom of the barrel.

[TambaBerry]

Replace the whole thing, a lot of money upfront but it will save you money in the long run.

[Monty]

This guy is great and he will provide second opinion if needed. http://www.bigbearair.com/

[Bugeater]

Yes, the A-coil is your evaporator (but it acts as a condenser when the heat pump is in heating mode)

The heat pump IS the outside condensing unit. It's just like an standard AC condensing unit, but it has a reversing valve and some other extra bullshit on it.

[nstygma]

i think the term you were looking for is compressor.
how do you know the leak is in the a-coil and not some other place?

so you've got a 4ton unit with 3/8 & 7/8 lines. wholesale price from Johnstone Supply for an uncased coil for that is basically $415 and a new 410a copeland scroll compressor is $820. so much hassle to replace them though, then what if it doesn't work properly?

better to have peace of mind for the next decade+ with a new system & warranty.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by nstygma

i think the term you were looking for is compressor.
how do you know the leak is in the a-coil and not some other place?

so you've got a 4ton unit with 3/8 & 7/8 lines. wholesale price from Johnstone Supply for an uncased coil for that is basically $415 and a new 410a copeland scroll compressor is $820. so much hassle to replace them though, then what if it doesn't work properly?

better to have peace of mind for the next decade+ with a new system & warranty.

DAMMIT.. absolutely correct. I was typing condenser when I meant compressor all this time. No wonder I was making no sense.

I personally don't know jack, I am going off what someone else told them. But apparently the a-coil is rusted out and leaking.

They are getting quoted $2200 to replace the current air handler and recharge the system. Of course this would all still be r-22. That just seems to me to be fairly steep even considering the recharge to be $600 of that.. that means just replacing the air handler is costing $1600.

They are getting quoted between $6 and $7k to pull it all out and replace with R410a system.

The whole thing is a bit of a cluster**** to begin with. This system is just for the front of the house, basically 3 large rooms. The rest of the house is on a separate system.

[Chief Roundup]

Welding is the same. And you don't have to replace the copper lines as long as they are proper sized. They make a flush to prepare the old existing copper lines for the new refrigerant. It is however highly recommended that you replace them to protect your investment.

[ChiefaRoo]

220/221 volts What ever it takes. by UZI4you