Game Managers QB's vs Vertical Offense QB's or are they really just System QB's

[ROYC75]

(This has a poll but before answering the question, read the OP and the ( GOOD ) old article within the OP..... OK, now read up and wait for the poll, I type slow. )

I am reminded of an old article from 2013 that brings up the question of, Aren't all QB's jusy system QB's. The philosophies used by the likes of Sid Gillman, Ron Erhardt, Ray Perkins, Don Coryell and Bill Walsh, there are three main offensive philosophies used by those coaches.
These schemes have been prevalent for most teams around the NFL and you can trace any NFL offense and coach back to one of these three systems. They are The Erhardt-Perkins, "Air" Coryell and the West Coast system. ( article to big to fit in the OP )
https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/...se-chiefs-2013

So I question this, aren't all QB's really just system QB's ? I say, yeah, why not? Very few QB's can fit into any coaches offensive philosophy or scheme.

Just think of Bill Belichik, with Tom Brady, many say he is the GOAT? I simply say, he is a system QB. Belichik had Drew Bledsoe, who was having a banner year until he got hurt got with Bill. Hell, even Matt Cassell and Jimmy Garoppolo has proved it was just NE's system that was making Brady look so good.

Every NFL team or coach will try to draft, sign a FA QB that best fits their system to simplify and run their offense. Alex Smith is known as a game manager but would he fit in the Air Coryell downfield attacking system as a game manager? You can easily answer, No. Peyton Manning first went to Denver and struggled in the system Fox wanted to run. It wasn't until several games they opened up the offense to run a scheme Manning was comfortable with in Indy. Can you see Manning running the West Coast offense? I do not think he would do too well with it.

Some OB's are called Game Managers. Yet aren't they all supposed to be a Game Manager? I say, Yes, they have to manage that game within their system. Oh My, if all QB's are Game Managers within the OC system, then wouldn't they be a System QB.

IMHO, being labeled a Game Manager, a System QB or whatever you want to label them is wrong. IMHO, I say each one has to be a game manager within the system of the OC game plan and be the best system QB he can be on that day.

So, What say you ?

[Ragged Robin]

alex "game manager" smith was in the same Reid system for 4 years and then all of a sudden became the #1 passer in the league in nearly every statistical category for anything that had to do with throwing a ball 20+ yards through the air.. so is it really "limited passer" or "system" dependent?

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by Ragged Robin

alex "game manager" smith was in the same Reid system for 4 years and then all of a sudden became the #1 passer in the league in nearly every statistical category for anything that had to do with throwing a ball 20+ yards through the air.. so is it really "limited passer" or "system" dependent?

tyreek hill + moon balls

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

I love this "system QB" nonsense. The entire term and concept is pretty silly/stupid.

EVERY offense is a system. EVERY QB operates within a system. Whether a QB is great, good or bad depends FAR more on whether he is a good fit within his system than anything else. You think Brady is going to do really well in a run/pass option offense? How about Cam Newton in the accuracy-dependent West Coast offense?

So some QBs may be more flexible, in that they can succeed in MORE systems, but despite that flexibility, their ceiling may not be as high in ANY system, as one guy might have in ONE particular system.

So who the **** cares about the system? The greatness of a QB is all about his performance within the system that he has. Many times that is the QB being in the right system for him. And GOOD COACHING is literally adapting the system to emphasize the strengths, and minimize the weaknesses, of the quarterback. From that point of view, over a long enough period of time, the system is literally designed AROUND the quarterback, so they are indistinguishable. See Patriots/Brady for a key example of that. Over the 18 years he has started the Patriots have expanded their playbook and shaped it somewhat to emphasize what he does well, and de-emphasize what he doesn't do as well.

This. I'll add that most players are "SYSTEM" players.

The ideal situation for both player and team, is to match said player's skill set with the system that you run.

You know, most people refer to that as, uh "good drafting".

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by Ragged Robin

alex "game manager" smith was in the same Reid system for 4 years and then all of a sudden became the #1 passer in the league in nearly every statistical category for anything that had to do with throwing a ball 20+ yards through the air.. so is it really "limited passer" or "system" dependent?

It's neither. It's him evolving within the system he plays in.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

It's neither. It's him evolving within the system he plays in.

Yep.

Alex Smith wasn't leading the league in deep passing with anyone but Tyreek Hill.

It's kind of like when Randall Cunningham suddenly lucked into prime Randy Moss. That was the best year of his career.

And he still choked in the postseason.

[Ming the Merciless]

There isnt a good enough option for me to vote on

Most QB operate within a system, sure...but not all QB would HAVE to. Take peyton manning as the easiest example to point out the flaw in the OP thinking. He WAS the system. He could basically look at the defense and dial up the play that he needed on the spot, and use the 'system' to relay that play to his team mates. In his case the 'system' was basically there so that manning could pass the information to his team mates quickly, at the line. You cant tell me that guy needed a certain system to 'play'...he just needed it to transmit his thinking to the rest of the team.

If you accept the above as true, then you go to the next logical step and acknowledge that Peyton is not the ONLY qb in the universe who can or did do this or something similar.

So no, not every QB has to operate within a certain system..but every offense needs to have a 'language' that they can speak in the huddle and at the line to convey information.

The best analogy I can think of is this:

Every Scotch is a WHISKY

But Not all whiskys are scotch.

Every QB uses a system.(to convey info)...but not all QB's need one for themselves to succeed

[TimeForWasp]

They are not a full back
They are not a half back
They are only a quarter back

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

I agree with this.



STRONGLY disagree. Cam Newton's strengths and Tom Brady's strengths are not remotely the same, but you can win with either IF YOU PUT THEM IN THE RIGHT SYSTEM FOR THEM.



Note also this applies to many other positions on the field. 2 gap versus 1 gap defenses, etc.

Tom Brady could operate in and win in any system. He is the reason the Patriots don't employ a single "system" as stated by the OP. The Patriots have a very complex, hybrid offense that uses components of the vertical game and the horizontal game.

Cam Newton is just a different flavor of mediocre.