Chiefs Has our defense been HARSHLY judged? - Page 18

UChieffyBugger · 04:41 PM

It seems to be in fashion to knock the Chiefs defense. WE as fans slaughter them daily, the local press slaughter then daily, the NATIONAL and INTERNATIONAL media slaughter them daily, and when I sit and think about the circumstances sounding that group, one could argue that they are getting judged a little harshly.

Now let's start with the preseason. Ragland and Hitchens played ONE warm-up together against the Bears and both missed several practice sessions. Nelson got knocked out of the Atlanta game and missed sessions himself, whilst Parker wasn't even In our building during the preseason. Then we have Ford who Is just returning to the team after being out for most of last season, and Houston barely played In the warm-up games himself.

Last year there was a perception that we had "the worst defense known to man", but I argued it was an overblown notion because the reality was that we were around fifteenth In the points allowed tally. But that notion has stuck with the team and now this unit that has barely played together Is thrown together and Is trying to both gel as a unit and get their football legs going all whilst facing TWO quality offenses on the road. The Pats defense started off badly too last year and then managed to be a decent unit until the superbowl where they contrived to drop their best corner, so there is a clear example of how things can change quickly In this game.

htismaqe · 09-28-2018, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX

The defense is terrible. Its exactly the type of defense that can make JAG QB like Keesum look good. IMO, Sutton should have been given his walking papers long ago. He's still here and the defense is what it is.

This defense has virtually no talent. You can fire Sutton but isn't going to change until they stop drafting guys like Ford and Speaks.

htismaqe · 09-28-2018, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato

That M Peters trade is going to start looking pretty ugly if the Rams win the Superbowl, and we only use draft picks to snag meaningless nobodies like we did this last year. I haven't even heard our rookies names since the draft this year, just read the list again and don't even remember our 3rd round picks, Nandi & O'daniel, who?

Peters got beat like a rented mule last night, by Kirk freaking Cousins. This is a different league. Aaron Donald makes that defense go but it's their offense that makes them a real contender.

RaidersOftheCellar · 09-28-2018, 08:46 AM

I don't have numbers to back it up, but it seems that the 3rd quarter has been a problem for this defense for years.

Sutton loses the battle of 2nd half adjustments routinely.

RaidersOftheCellar · 09-28-2018, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

This defense has virtually no talent. You can fire Sutton but isn't going to change until they stop drafting guys like Ford and Speaks.

Jones, Houston, Fuller, Ford, Hitchens, Ragland, (Berry), is plenty of talent.

Add Thomas and a healthy-ish Berry, and a good DC would have plenty of success with that roster.

htismaqe · 09-28-2018, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

I don't have numbers to back it up, but it seems that the 3rd quarter has been a problem for this defense for years.

Sutton loses the battle of 2nd half adjustments routinely.

It has been a problem for the offense too.

htismaqe · 09-28-2018, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

Jones, Houston, Fuller, Ford, Hitchens, Ragland, (Berry), is plenty of talent.

Add Thomas and a healthy-ish Berry, and a good DC would have plenty of success with that roster.

Jones is a half-time player. Houston is a shell. Fuller has been 50/50 so far. Ford is hurt. AGAIN. Hitchens has been struggling due to the lack of safety talent behind him and the fact he plays next to Ragland. The fact you'd even say his name is laughable - he's TERRIBLE.

Add Thomas and a healthy Berry to this defense and BOB SUTTON would have plenty of success. In fact, HE ALREADY HAS.

TEX · 09-28-2018, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

This defense has virtually no talent. You can fire Sutton but isn't going to change until they stop drafting guys like Ford and Speaks.

Oh, I dont disagree about the lack of talent... I also know that whenever this gets brought up, that's your position on the subject. Fine. However I would fire Sutton after the season regardless. I dont think he gets enough out of the talent he does have. I also think a new philosophy and direction would be good for the defense.

RaidersOftheCellar · 09-28-2018, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Jones is a half-time player. Houston is a shell. Fuller has been 50/50 so far. Ford is hurt. AGAIN. Hitchens has been struggling due to the lack of safety talent behind him and the fact he plays next to Ragland. The fact you'd even say his name is laughable - he's TERRIBLE.

Add Thomas and a healthy Berry to this defense and BOB SUTTON would have plenty of success. In fact, HE ALREADY HAS.

Houston is still good. He'll never match what he did in 2014, but he shouldn't be expected to. He just had a great game. He was blatantly held all day in Pittsburgh, per the usual. Can't even evaluate a defense vs Pittsburgh.

Sutton shouldn't need stars at every position on the field just to be decent. He doesn't scheme to the personnel's strengths or do anything to help mask the weaknesses.

htismaqe · 09-28-2018, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

Houston is still good. He'll never match what he did in 2014, but he shouldn't be expected to. He just had a great game. He was blatantly held all day in Pittsburgh, per the usual. Can't even evaluate a defense vs Pittsburgh.

Sutton shouldn't need stars at every position on the field just to be decent. He doesn't scheme to the personnel's strengths or do anything to help mask the weaknesses.

Wade Phillips is generally recognized as a defensive genius. He also has not just talent but All-Pro talent at every level of his defense.

And gave up 462 yards and 3 TDs to Kirk Cousins.

htismaqe · 09-28-2018, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX

Oh, I dont disagree about the lack of talent... I also know that whenever this gets brought up, that's your position on the subject. Fine. However I would fire Sutton after the season regardless. I dont think he gets enough out of the talent he does have. I also think a new philosophy and direction would be good for the defense.

I'm all for firing Sutton if it would make people happy.

I'm all for actually fixing the defense, which firing Sutton won't do. He had the best 3 straight years of any Chiefs defensive coordinator since they entered the NFL.

I'm just not naive enough to thing that changing defensive coordinators is going to change anything.

TEX · 09-28-2018, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I'm all for firing Sutton if it would make people happy.

I'm all for actually fixing the defense, which firing Sutton won't do. He had the best 3 straight years of any Chiefs defensive coordinator since they entered the NFL.

I'm just not naive enough to thing that changing defensive coordinators is going to change anything.

"Had" is key. Does Sutton need a defense full of stars to be successful the same way Alex Smith does in Offense? Why cant he put his players in position to get the most of what he has? Maybe a guy with a different way of doing things could get more out of what's available? I know one thing for sure, Sutton cant.

You may not be naive enough to think that changing coordinators is going to change anything, but you may be to think that it wont...

Mecca · 09-28-2018, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX

"Had" is key. Does Sutton need a defense full of stars to be successful the same way Alex Smuth does in Offense?
You may not be naive enough to think that changing coordinators is going to change anything, but you may be to think that it wont...

They've never really had a defense full of stars, but he probably needs more than a scrub cast of role players and bums.

htismaqe · 09-28-2018, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX

"Had" is key. Does Sutton need a defense full of stars to be successful the same way Alex Smuth does in Offense?
You may not be naive enough to think that changing coordinators is going to change anything, but you may be to think that it wont...

He had 1 star at each level - Poe, Houston, and Berry.

And they were a top 5 defense 3 years in a row. Not as talented as Denver, not as talent as LA, not as talent as Philly. And yet, routinely performed just as well.

But by all means, run Sutton out of town on a rail. Everybody wants a scapegoat.

**ptlyon** · 09-28-2018, 09:36 AM

Chicken and egg Alex Smith arguments all over dis place

Mecca · 09-28-2018, 09:38 AM

Someone needs to tell me what a defensive coordinator is suppose to do when a bad CB group, a safety group that includes a dude that doesn't even know how to play zone and then a front 7 that doesn't get to the QB.

I don't care what plays you call, these guys aren't capable of executing.

09-21-2018, 04:35 PM
UChieffyBugger CP'S "MOST HATED" 😆 Join Date: Feb 2018 Casino cash: $2080400	Has our defense been HARSHLY judged? It seems to be in fashion to knock the Chiefs defense. WE as fans slaughter them daily, the local press slaughter then daily, the NATIONAL and INTERNATIONAL media slaughter them daily, and when I sit and think about the circumstances sounding that group, one could argue that they are getting judged a little harshly. Now let's start with the preseason. Ragland and Hitchens played ONE warm-up together against the Bears and both missed several practice sessions. Nelson got knocked out of the Atlanta game and missed sessions himself, whilst Parker wasn't even In our building during the preseason. Then we have Ford who Is just returning to the team after being out for most of last season, and Houston barely played In the warm-up games himself. Last year there was a perception that we had "the worst defense known to man", but I argued it was an overblown notion because the reality was that we were around fifteenth In the points allowed tally. But that notion has stuck with the team and now this unit that has barely played together Is thrown together and Is trying to both gel as a unit and get their football legs going all whilst facing TWO quality offenses on the road. The Pats defense started off badly too last year and then managed to be a decent unit until the superbowl where they contrived to drop their best corner, so there is a clear example of how things can change quickly In this game. Last edited by UChieffyBugger; 09-21-2018 at 04:41 PM..
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09-28-2018, 08:46 AM	#258
RaidersOftheCellar MVP Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Lawrence, KS Casino cash: $2600400	I don't have numbers to back it up, but it seems that the 3rd quarter has been a problem for this defense for years. Sutton loses the battle of 2nd half adjustments routinely.
Posts: 14,856

09-28-2018, 09:36 AM	#269
ptlyon Bono & Grbac wasn't enough Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Sioux City, IA Casino cash: $12563829	Chicken and egg Alex Smith arguments all over dis place __________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Advertise here: $19.99 a month
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09-28-2018, 09:38 AM	#270
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $2097050	Someone needs to tell me what a defensive coordinator is suppose to do when a bad CB group, a safety group that includes a dude that doesn't even know how to play zone and then a front 7 that doesn't get to the QB. I don't care what plays you call, these guys aren't capable of executing.
Posts: 111,280	1 0