Cassel Vs Sanchez

[Titty Meat]

Also known as the Chiefsplanet Civil War. I made this thread not to talk smack but to compare how each player plays. Sanchez looked great tonight despite missing half of the Jets O-line.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

I put the Pats in a large group with a Brady asterisk. Aside from him, lots of teams have a comparable number of hits.

I don't see this at all. Hell, go take a look at that Ravens team you were talking about for comparison.

[ArrowheadMagic]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Meh, tough conversation to get into.

I think there are teams that draft better than the Pats, but I also think the Pats are head and shoulders above the rest in Free Agency.

In terms of overall talent evaluation, they are most definitely top 5, probably 1 or 2.

I think you don't include coaching in there, because BB is their engine, not just using the parts they have.

Someone had to find the parts.... BB was too busy coaching. Draft is a big part..... but being able to fill in holes through FA is also.... the way NE does it ...wins championships.... the other " good drafters" doesnt... what is the criteria we are grading teams on? IMO.... winning championships trumps good drafting..... but I might be alone in that... Out of those great drafting teams.... who is the dynasty of the 2000's?

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by ArrowheadMagic

Someone had to find the parts.... BB was too busy coaching. Draft is a big part..... but being able to fill in holes through FA is also.... the way NE does it ...wins championships.... the other " good drafters" doesnt... what is the criteria we are grading teams on? IMO.... winning championships trumps good drafting..... but I might be alone in that... Out of those great drafting teams.... who is the dynasty of the 2000's?

The team with Brady.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

In no particular order, I look at San Diego, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh and the Patriots as the four best drafting teams in the NFL. However, given that you're ranking the Patriots 6th (which is well above average) when I said top 5, we really don't have any reason to continue this on any serious level.

However, if you think that the Giants and Ravens draft better than New England, you really need to take a look at their draft boards.

In more recent history the Giants have drafted better....I think it's comparable of you go back some years.

Justin Tuck a 2nd round pick..Umenyiora a 2nd rounder...the Giants are today a very good draft team.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by ArrowheadMagic

Someone had to find the parts.... BB was too busy coaching. Draft is a big part..... but being able to fill in holes through FA is also.... the way NE does it ...wins championships.... the other " good drafters" doesnt... what is the criteria we are grading teams on? IMO.... winning championships trumps good drafting..... but I might be alone in that... Out of those great drafting teams.... who is the dynasty of the 2000's?

Bottom line is it doesn't matter how you build your team, if you don't find the QB to run things, you could well be on the outside looking in when it comes to championships.

I'd rather have the the Ravens and Steelers units than the Patriots, overall, except that the Patriots have Tom Brady.

The Steelers now have a franchise QB who is coming into his own in Ben Reothlisberger, and they have two championships this decade, trailing the Pats by a single championship.

The Ravens, even while having superior takent on defense, good O-Line play and RBs, have been trotting out scrub QBs for most of the decade and the result has been a single Lombardi back in 2000.

The difference this decade has been a 6th round pick who they had to be talked into drafting by the QB coach.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by milkman

Bottom line is it doesn't matter how you build your team, if you don't find the QB to run things, you could well be on the outside looking in when it comes to championships.

I'd rather have the the Ravens and Steelers units than the Patriots, overall, except that the Patriots have Tom Brady.

The Steelers now have a franchise QB who is coming into his own in Ben Reothlisberger, and they have two championships this decade, trailing the Pats by a single championship.

The Ravens, even while having superior takent on defense, good O-Line play and RBs, have been trotting out scrub QBs for most of the decade and the result has been a single Lombardi back in 2000.

The difference this decade has been a 6th round pick who they had to be talked into drafting by the QB coach.

I don't like the Ravens Offense at all. Especially since Ogden is gone. If Flacco has it, there is a different story.

Steelers I agree have a good team. They have mismanaged their Oline some, but Roethisberger did well with it. Testament to Big Ben.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

I don't like the Ravens Offense at all. Especially since Ogden is gone. If Flacco has it, there is a different story.

Steelers I agree have a good team. They have mismanaged their Oline some, but Roethisberger did well with it. Testament to Big Ben.

Earlier in the decade, the Ravens O-Line was one of the best.

But Big Ben is the perfect illustration of what I'm talking about.

It all starts at the QB position.

At the risk of being redundant, I'll repeat what I've said many times.

Give me franchise QB and a top ten defense, and I'll take my chances against the rest of the league.

[Deberg_1990]

Originally Posted by milkman

Give me franchise QB and a top ten defense, and I'll take my chances against the rest of the league.

This.....Times 1000!

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by Raised On Riots

To answer your question, yes.

And now a question of my own:

Do the entrance gates at the Hall of Dumbassery really require a Guardian?

OMG the Jets will not have a winning record with Sanchez starting all season you are a ****ing moron.

As far as the best drafting teams..........

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft0...ohn&id=3252721

Pats #1 here but not exactly science.

Forbes used a more "scientific" approach by going who is still on the roster, who made pro bowls, etc.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/08/nfl...hisspeed=25000

If you put any stock into that then the Pats and Steelers suck and the Houston Texans are #1 and Denver is fifth. Which is just downright laughable. So the two teams that have the most Super Bowls over the last 10 years are the worst drafters and the teams that are best at drafting look like $hit. Makes total sense.

I don't think there is any 'scientific' way to say who is the best drafting team. Pioli and BB seemed to do a pretty good job of hitting on their first rounders and that to me is far more important than anything else in the draft personally. That's the guy you invest the most in and expect to be NFL ready as soon as possible. Same for the Steelers, and not by coincidence they have the most rings over the last 10 years.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by milkman

Really, if Moss gave 100% effort every play, went all out to do everything to help his team play in and play out, would the Raiders have been as terrible in his last season there as they were?

I think not.

And in watching the Patriots last year, until he began to feel as though Cassel was a legitimate NFL QB, his effort, or lack thereof, hurt them in a couple of games, most notably the Steeler game.

HOLY SHIT SOMEONE HAS ACTUALLY WATCHED THE GAMES

[JD10367]

Well. this thread has wandered, hasn't it.

As far as disruptive players go (e.g. TO, Randy Moss), it's in the same category as hard-ass coaches (e.g. Parcells, Belichick, Coughlin, and your new main man): winning cures all ills. If a team wins, the headcases and hardasses are not an issue. If a team loses, they become an issue. TO is a selfish, douchebaggous, cancerous, blah blah blah, and yet the guy was hobbled and almost won the SB for the Eagles against the Pats. Moss takes plays off, is lazy, yada yada yada, yet combined with Brady to tear up the record books in '07.

As far as the Pats drafting goes, they've been fairly average-to-bad. But they make up for it with some late-round gems, and solid FA acquisitions. So it balances out.

And, as far as Dirty Sanchez goes, again, get back to me when he's played an NFL game.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by Mecca

In more recent history the Giants have drafted better....I think it's comparable of you go back some years.

Justin Tuck a 2nd round pick..Umenyiora a 2nd rounder...the Giants are today a very good draft team.

Umenyiora was drafted in 2003. William Joseph was the first round pick that season.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

OMG the Jets will not have a winning record with Sanchez starting all season you are a ****ing moron.

The Jets will go 500 at the very least. If you can not see that, then it is YOU who are the ****ing moron, and that is that.

I get updates on that team daily, I know what's going on. You......are just running your ****ing mouth. Asshat.

[JD10367]

Originally Posted by Raised On Riots

The Jets will go 500 at the very least. If you can not see that, then it is YOU who are the ****ing moron, and that is that.

I get updates on that team daily, I know what's going on. You......are just running your ****ing mouth. Asshat.

Ummm.... ".500 at the very least"? Methinks not. New head coach + new rookie QB + tough AFC East = difficulties.

Buffalo will be improved this season. Miami won't match last year's 11-5 but will be pesky as usual. Pats, Brady back, 'nuf said.

Not sure where there are 8 or more wins in that schedule. Even if they managed to split with the Pats, Fins, and Bills, aside from Cincy I don't see a gimme. The Texans, Saints, Raiders, and Bucs are all away games, which will make them tougher than they look. They also go on the road to Indy (fun). At home they get the Jags, Panthers, Falcons, and Titans: the first three are pesky, the last one only went 13-3 last year.

I think the best the Jets end up is 6-10, around the same as Buffalo, with Miami probably 8-8ish.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Uh, yes.