Chiefs SI : Chiefs have a problem and his name is Dwayne Bowe - Page 16

**pr_capone** · 06:53 PM

His performance so far this season has been underwhelming. He is in a position to clock in his worst performance in the NFL so far and is projecting to have 54 receptions for 586 yards w/6TD.

Is his problem that defenses are keying in on him... or is it that, as suggested by Greg Bedard, that Bowe has lost a step and is no longer a top tier WR?

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/10/11/greg-b...preview-notes/

Quote:

6. The Chiefs will win a lot of games with their current formula: good defense that takes the ball away (15 times so far) and an offense that doesn’t turn it over (just five) for an NFL-leading plus-10 in giveaways/takeaways. But to beat the good teams, they’re going to have to start stretching the field. Defenses know QB Alex Smith is overly conservative, so they’re dropping a safety down and playing a lot of man. The Chiefs have a big problem with receiver Dwayne Bowe. Not sure what has happened to him, but he lacks explosion and can’t beat man coverage anymore. Defenses don’t fear him at all.

O.city · 10-12-2013, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

We've never seen this reincarnated form of Alex Smith play without a solid running game and elite defense. We have no idea what he would look like.

Probably wouldn't throw as many picks as Eli is, but INTs aren't everything.

You've gone off the deep end with your qb thoughts. Ints aren't everything? Really?

Saccopoo · 10-12-2013, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

He won 2 Super Bowls, and yes, he deserves a ton of credit for those wins even if he had a good supporting cast. He also gets a pass because regular season be damned, there are few QBs I'd want above him in the postseason.

Eli and Rodgers are two different QBs. Rodgers and Peyton are two guys who can carry a bad team on their back, but their style of play is flawed too. They play so up-tempo that the team isn't built to be elite in the 4th quarter. Eli is what I call an elite game manager. But to be successful, he has to have a good running game to help control the tempo of the game. That's not too much to ask for. Right now, his running game is an absolute abortion.

Don't back track.

You said that they were elite, Hall of Fame level QB's that can carry their team.

They aren't, and they can't as evidenced by this seasons dismal performance.

However, in the same post, you discount Smith as a pile of shit who's only winning with superior players around him, even though he took a horrible 2010 49er's team to the NFC championship game in 2011 (and lost it due to a special teams turnover) and has the 2-15 Chiefs in 2012 at 5-0 in 2013.

But Eli and Raper are HOF's that can carry bad teams and Smith is a schmuck who needs elite talent around him to win.

Delusional post is delusional.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 10-12-2013, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

You've gone off the deep end with your qb thoughts. Ints aren't everything? Really?

If you're putting up one TD per int, yes. You can still win. ESPECIALLY with this defense.

chiefzilla1501 · 10-12-2013, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

I would. All day long.

Eli Manning, with the exception of what someone could consider an epiphany level moment in the playoffs in 2011, has consistently been a .500ish level performing QB that has been supported by a very good defense, wide receiver corps and running game. Prior to the 2007 SB, there were whispers of the concept of "bust."

Alex Smith has had a shitload more talent than Eli has had. In the 2007 SB, his receivers were a geriatric Amani Toomer and Steve Smith, and a running game not nearly as solid as Frank Gore or Jamaal Charles. In 2011, he had the worst running game in the league and threw for 4,900 yards.

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Now that the Giants don't have that running game or defense, Manning is being exposed. Go look at what he is directly responsible for in terms of the Giants and their record this current football season. The guy is an absolute interception machine who is making horrible decisions with the ball.

Some people around here get completely enamored by what's on the back of the jersey and what the east coast media bias wants them to hear.

No. I get enamored by 2 Super Bowl rings, 2 Super Bowls that he earned... big time. And I'm also realistic to know that Eli needs some level of help, but when he gets that help, he wins big games in ways that his brother and guys like Aaron Rodgers can't. And until Smith proves otherwise, Eli can play the same game as Smith, but also make big plays and throw to the sidelines.

Smith would be a disaster in Eli's offense, and so would Flacco. That's on the Giants' front office, not Eli.

chiefzilla1501 · 10-12-2013, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Don't back track.

You said that they were elite, Hall of Fame level QB's that can carry their team.

They aren't, and they can't as evidenced by this seasons dismal performance.

However, in the same post, you discount Smith as a pile of shit who's only winning with superior players around him, even though he took a horrible 2010 49er's team to the NFC championship game in 2011 (and lost it due to a special teams turnover) and has the 2-15 Chiefs in 2012 at 5-0 in 2013.

But Eli and Raper are HOF's that can carry bad teams and Smith is a schmuck who needs elite talent around him to win.

Delusional post is delusional.

When did I say Smith is a pile of shit? I've repeatedly commented that QB efficiency is highly underrated. But to be an efficient QB, you have to build a team a certain way. Eli and Big Ben have done that. But there's only so far you can take that. Their running games aren't just bad. They are an absolute joke.

chiefzilla1501 · 10-12-2013, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

You've gone off the deep end with your qb thoughts. Ints aren't everything? Really?

Eli and Big Ben are different animals. They have an unusual knack for playing down to the competition. They play amazing football when their team ends up in a shootout, and play frustrating football when the defense is playing really well. But they somehow consistently manage to get their team into a 4th quarter situation they can win.

Smith is doing something similar. Except instead of throwing INTs, he's throwing more bad passes than he needs to.

O.city · 10-12-2013, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Alex Smith has had a shitload more talent than Eli has had. In the 2007 SB, his receivers were a geriatric Amani Toomer and Steve Smith, and a running game not nearly as solid as Frank Gore or Jamaal Charles. In 2011, he had the worst running game in the league and threw for 4,900 yards.

No. I get enamored by 2 Super Bowl rings, 2 Super Bowls that he earned... big time. And I'm also realistic to know that Eli needs some level of help, but when he gets that help, he wins big games in ways that his brother and guys like Aaron Rodgers can't. And until Smith proves otherwise, Eli can play the same game as Smith, but also make big plays and throw to the sidelines.

Smith would be a disaster in Eli's offense, and so would Flacco. That's on the Giants' front office, not Eli.

We had this conversation Thursday night. Because Eli won 2 SBs, he can't be criticized.

If I have to have halo like you say, I'm not paying a qb 21 million dollars to do that, when it severely restricts what players I can out around him to help.

**RealSNR** · 10-12-2013, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

You've gone off the deep end with your qb thoughts. Ints aren't everything? Really?

No, YOU'VE gone off the deep end with your Martyism.

It's bad if a QB throws 20+ INTs the way Eli is set to do, but if he accompanies his high turnover rate with yards, a high completion percentage, and SCORES, then it's not the worst thing in the world.

A QB with nothing else at all going for him except for low INT numbers isn't so much QBing a team as much as he is wasting everybody's time.

If I have to pick one or the other, give me the hot cannon.

So no, INTs aren't everything. That's like saying a RB's #1 job is to not fumble.

Saccopoo · 10-12-2013, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

We've never seen this reincarnated form of Alex Smith play without a solid running game and elite defense. We have no idea what he would look like.

Probably wouldn't throw as many picks as Eli is, but INTs aren't everything.

Matt Cassel 2010 vs. 2011.

Eli Manning 2013 vs. 2010.

INTs are huge. All turnovers are huge.

They usually happen on the wrong side of the field resulting in exponential point swings.

It's why Marty's Chiefs teams were so successful - they made a specific point to be on the positive side of the turnover margin. Reid does that as well and you are seeing a direct corollary to that in this years record versus last years record.

Smith does one thing exceptionally well - he doesn't put the ball into the defenses hands. That alone gives you a huge leg up in terms of game planning, especially on the defensive side of the ball. Field position, attacking, etc. that we are currently seeing from the Chiefs in 2013 is all predicated on the concept that the offense will be methodically consistent and provide opportunities to put points on the board without giving the opposing team the chance to do the same thing.

And this is the specific reason why Smith isn't targeting Bowe as much as some think he should around here. Bowe isn't making a case for the ball with solid positioning and separation. It's the Dwayne Bowe of the past five years who has made a career of going to get the ball by his own volition through strength and muscle once the ball is in his general area. Smith wants a guy who's already open after a clean, precise break that will allow the receiver to get YAC once they have possession of the ball.

Bowe has been sloppy. Bad habits are hard to break. And his reception totals are reflective of his own on-the-field work ethics. However, hopefully, he, Smith and the coaching staff recognize this and are working it out. He's too talented not to be winning in single coverage situations, especially in this day and age of the NFL. However, as of right now, he's not winning. The Giants and Titan CB's made that painfully obvious.

Saccopoo · 10-12-2013, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Alex Smith isn't QBing a 2-14 team from 2012. He is QBing the 7-9 team in 2011 (that could have been even better, if not for the poorly conditioned first 2 games, and having to play behind Tyler Palko for the other games).

I said these guys can win regardless of supporting cast. I'll make one exception. They need some hint of a Running Back. Their Running Backs are embarrassingly bad. I guarantee if you give both those guys a decent RB, they're elite QBs again. And with those guys, I don't take much stock in the regular season. They've both taken bad regular season teams to Super Bowls.

So, in contrary to what you stated earlier, Manning and the Raper need a solid running game and defense to be elite, even though they are HOF'ers who can carry bad teams to wins, but Smith is still a schmuck because he's got a 2-14/7-9 team 5-0.

Gotcha.

KCCrusader · 10-12-2013, 09:07 AM

Bowe will be fine just give him more targets!!!!!

chiefzilla1501 · 10-12-2013, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

We had this conversation Thursday night. Because Eli won 2 SBs, he can't be criticized.

If I have to have halo like you say, I'm not paying a qb 21 million dollars to do that, when it severely restricts what players I can out around him to help.

What I don't get is why people are so critical of Eli Manning because of 2 Super Bowl runs, yet wash the balls of QBs like Brees and Rodgers who won one Super Bowl but have been otherwise very forgettable playoff QBs outside of that one single run.

Winning 2 SBs is no small accomplishment, and I don't think many QBs could have done it even with that team. I give Eli a halo because regardless of how he plays in the regular season, there are few QBs better than Eli I'd rather have once I get in the playoffs.

O.city · 10-12-2013, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

No, YOU'VE gone off the deep end with your Martyism.

It's bad if a QB throws 20+ INTs the way Eli is set to do, but if he accompanies his high turnover rate with yards, a high completion percentage, and SCORES, then it's not the worst thing in the world.

A QB with nothing else at all going for him except for low INT numbers isn't so much QBing a team as much as he is wasting everybody's time.

If I have to pick one or the other, give me the hot cannon.

So no, INTs aren't everything. That's like saying a RB's #1 job is to not fumble.

So here we are again with the "give me the big downfield passer over anything" mantra?

**RealSNR** · 10-12-2013, 09:09 AM

You know an all-time great NFL QB who threw a ton of picks?

Brett Favre. In fact, he's got the NFL record for most picks in a career.

You know an all-time great NFL QB whose best quality was not throwing INTs?

Umm..... Trent Dilfer? Shaun King? I guess?

**RealSNR** · 10-12-2013, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

So here we are again with the "give me the big downfield passer over anything" mantra?

Choose one:

Brett Favre or Trent Dilfer

10-12-2013, 09:07 AM	#236
KCCrusader Banned Join Date: Oct 2013 Casino cash: $10004900	Bowe will be fine just give him more targets!!!!!
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10-12-2013, 09:09 AM	#239
RealSNR Special Teams ACE!!! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Where the hell is SNR Casino cash: $1990208	You know an all-time great NFL QB who threw a ton of picks? Brett Favre. In fact, he's got the NFL record for most picks in a career. You know an all-time great NFL QB whose best quality was not throwing INTs? Umm..... Trent Dilfer? Shaun King? I guess?
Posts: 90,726