How similiar of QBs are Alex Smith and Russell Wilson?

[Deberg_1990]

Since everyone here loves Wilson so much.....

Admittedly Russell throws a better deep ball, but IMO they are fairly similar. Not flashy, don't throw for a ton of yards, use their feet to move the chains, protect the football and play smart.


Discuss....


http://www.pro-football-reference.co...m?mobile=false

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...S/SmitAl03.htm

[ViperVisor]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Hey, please be a little more dishonest next time.

We averaged 120 rushing YPG and actually had a top 5 rushing attack for much of the season.

Read the context and be a little less dumbass next time.
He was talking about the bad record in games late in the season.

Games 11-15
Jamaal carries were taken back as he was banged up
57.4 yards rushing was the avg from him over that stretch.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by ViperVisor

It's cherry picking because you cherry picked a portion of the season.
If that is a new argument of what happened over that span it is fair.

What is not fair is We had a defense that even with their shortcomings played like a top tier defense. We have elite RBs crippled by a passing game that doesn't open up the box.
That is more make believe than reality.

What is not fair about that?

We have elite RBs. We had a defense that played more than good enough to win games. We had one of the worst pass defenses during that 1-4 stretch. So yeah, I think I'm going to bag on the group that was terrible.

Don't even tell me you're going to try to convince anyone that defenders aren't stacking the box to stop Charles because they don't respect the pass.

And is third down conversions and game-winning drives are the focus the defense pooped themselves @ OAK and vs. DEN in back to back weeks. And @ PIT they were 5/10 on 3rd downs.

Alex Smith had the ball in his hands with the chance to win the game against Oakland. He didn't. The Denver game is more excusable but again... he was just bad. The defense wasn't great back to back weeks, but Alex Smith was consistently bad that entire 5 week stretch except for 1 game against Oakland. The defense, on the other hand, was excellent the remaining three games.

QB play is almost always the single biggest factor but the extreme hyper focus on Smith's failures in Nov. and Dec. is crazy but typical for this board.

This isn't hard to figure out. The biggest difference between the 7-3 Chiefs and the 1-4 Chiefs is that their third down conversion % fell from ~50% to 28%.

And it's not cherry picking. The Chiefs closed the season at 1-4 (Chase Daniel getting us a meaningful win getting us to 2-4). Alex Smith was terrible in 4 of those 5 games. That 1-4 stretch took us out of the playoffs.

[ViperVisor]

Excellent?
Terrible?

Be specific and and less buzzword.

Because the defense was not excellent @ AZ or PIT
And only DEN game at home was what you could classify as Terrible from Smith

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by ViperVisor

Read the context and be a little less dumbass next time.

He was talking about the bad record in games late in the season.



Games 11-15

Jamaal carries were taken back as he was banged up

57.4 yards rushing was the avg from him over that stretch.

Right. Everything you mentioned happened early on in the season as well, minus Jamaal's carries and the "bad stretch of 3rd down and red zone conversion", which is linked more to Alex than anything.

So basically the difference between winning games and losing them is 10 yards from Jamaal Charles.

Got it.

[ViperVisor]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Right. Everything you mentioned happened early on in the season as well, minus Jamaal's carries and the "bad stretch of 3rd down and red zone conversion", which is linked more to Alex than anything.

So basically the difference between winning games and losing them is 10 yards from Jamaal Charles.

Got it.

Yep. That's the thesis of what I said. Jamaal being used less. I didn't list 5 other things.

You goofed up. Say my bad, I misunderstood the post and move on.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Russell Wilson consistently closes games. Alex Smith does not. Russell Wilson consistently converts on third down. Alex Smith does not (I think 33% last year which is atrocious, and something like 30% this year during the Chiefs' skid at the end of the season).

Alex Smith in 113 games has 16 game winning drives
Russell Wilson in HALF THE GAMES (55 games) has 15 game winning drives

Good game managers convert third downs and close games. Alex Smith doesn't do either of those things. So I really hate that people throw the game manager label on him.

The NFL puts too much on QB's. What if Bowe gets his feet down in Indy?
What if Kyle Williams doesn't fumble?
Those happen and Alex is looked on as a completely different QB.

People blaming Alex for putting up 44 points and losing is just mind-boggling. No QB wins without a good supporting cast and Russell Wilson is living proof.
Luck plays a role as well.

The 2 pt play should have been defended (wtf was Haha doing?) and the onside kick?

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by ViperVisor

Excellent?
Terrible?

Be specific and and less buzzword.

Because the defense was not excellent @ AZ or PIT
And only DEN game at home was what you could classify as Terrible from Smith

How specific do you want me to get? Alex Smith was really bad in the 4th quarter against Pittsburgh when he needed him most, mounted an excellent comeback in Oakland then was brutally inept on the most critical drive of the game, scored ZERO second half points against the Cardinals, and as mentioned... was terrible against the Broncos. This was a terrible stretch for Alex Smith. During that span, the team went 28% on third downs, he took 20 sacks (that would have put him on pace for 60+ sacks). So Alex Smith didn't move the chains, he didn't close games, he was missing blitz pickups left and right, threw an embarrassingly low number of deep passes, and oh by the way, did I again mention the team went 1-4 during this stretch?

Maybe using the word "excellent" to describe the defense was wrong. The defense and running game were good enough to win games for even below average QB play. The passing game shit the bed in that 5 game stretch. It is silly to blame it on anyone but them. You can blame the OL and WRs if you want. But the passing game was downright awful.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by RunKC

The NFL puts too much on QB's. What if Bowe gets his feet down in Indy?
What if Kyle Williams doesn't fumble?
Those happen and Alex is looked on as a completely different QB.

People blaming Alex for putting up 44 points and losing is just mind-boggling. No QB wins without a good supporting cast and Russell Wilson is living proof.
Luck plays a role as well.

The 2 pt play should have been defended (wtf was Haha doing?) and the onside kick?

I'll give credit where credit is due. I've consistently defended Alex Smith's performance against Indy and some called me a homer. I defended his play in the beginning of the season where I thought he played well the first 10 games of the season.

But I'm going to call him out when he looks like shit. He looked like shit the beginning of last year. He looked like shit at the end of this year.

[ViperVisor]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

How specific do you want me to get? Alex Smith was really bad in the 4th quarter against Pittsburgh when he needed him most, mounted an excellent comeback in Oakland then was brutally inept on the most critical drive of the game, scored ZERO second half points against the Cardinals, and as mentioned... was terrible against the Broncos. This was a terrible stretch for Alex Smith. During that span, the team went 28% on third downs, he took 20 sacks (that would have put him on pace for 60+ sacks). So Alex Smith didn't move the chains, he didn't close games, he was missing blitz pickups left and right, threw an embarrassingly low number of deep passes, and oh by the way, did I again mention the team went 1-4 during this stretch?

Maybe using the word "excellent" to describe the defense was wrong. The defense and running game were good enough to win games for even below average QB play. The passing game shit the bed in that 5 game stretch. It is silly to blame it on anyone but them. You can blame the OL and WRs if you want. But the passing game was downright awful.

More cherry picking segments of games and hyperbole and over-simplistic analysis.

You bury the lead of blame the OL and WRs. It is a series of moving parts. Smith is the biggest part but the dismissive addressing of the other 10 guys is reeruned.

And downright awful ?
Take out the OAK win and it was still respectable overall numbers
92-143 991 yards 5 TDs 2 INT

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by ViperVisor

More cherry picking segments of games and hyperbole and over-simplistic analysis.

You bury the lead of blame the OL and WRs. It is a series of moving parts. Smith is the biggest part but the dismissive addressing of the other 10 guys is reeruned.

And downright awful ?
Take out the OAK win and it was still respectable overall numbers
92-143 991 yards 5 TDs 2 INT

When did I dismiss the other 10 guys? The QB is the leader of the passing game. The RB is the leader of the running game. Defense is the defense. Like I said, you can blame the OL and WR... they played terrible too. But Alex Smith is the leader of that unit.

And that is laughable that anyone would call our passing attack that stretch "respectable." Most of those numbers came in garbage, come-from-behind stretches. Anyone who actually watched the games knows the passing game was unacceptably bad.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by ViperVisor

Yep. That's the thesis of what I said. Jamaal being used less. I didn't list 5 other things.



You goofed up. Say my bad, I misunderstood the post and move on.

Not at all. You mentioned a bunch of shit that also happened while we won 7 of 8 as reasons why we didn't win late in the season.

If we're keeping it G-real here, the only differences you mentioned that are correct are about 10 less yards per game on average from Jamaal and an absolute shit 3rd down and red zone conversion rate.

The 3rd down and red zone conversion rate has more to do with Alex than any other individual player (or unit, even) on the team.

Are 10-15 yards from Jamaal Charles really the difference in a won and lost game?

[Hootie]

holy mother of God

do any of you actually watch Russell Wilson play football?

Or was yesterday the first time?

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I'll give credit where credit is due. I've consistently defended Alex Smith's performance against Indy and some called me a homer. I defended his play in the beginning of the season where I thought he played well the first 10 games of the season.

But I'm going to call him out when he looks like shit. He looked like shit the beginning of last year. He looked like shit at the end of this year.

You put Russell Wilson behind the OL with the receivers Alex Smith had this year and he's not the same guy.

The Packers destroyed Wilson most of the game by utterly abusing their backup RT and forced him to throw 4 INT's. They were getting pressure on him all game long and look at what happened?
In KC they lost Max Unger and look at what happened? Poe sacks him and that OL gets owned. The last drive Wilson is running for his life and can't make any plays.

That OL and Lynch make life so much easier for him. His receivers are not great but at least they can get separation.

[dls6501]

Originally Posted by RunKC

The Packers destroyed Wilson most of the game by utterly abusing their backup RT and forced him to throw 4 INT's. They were getting pressure on him all game long and look at what happened?

Not a single interception Wilson threw yesterday was a result from pressure. Not sure what game you were watching.

[Rausch]

I think they're very similar.