Football Brady v. NFL: No Settlement; Judge Berman to Decide - Page 13

Amnorix · 08-31-2015, 01:45 PM

Can't find the old thread. Brady and Goodell were back in NYC today for settlement talks. No progress.

Judge Berman said he would likely decide "in the next day or two" and definitely before September 4th.

Interesting how the narrative among the national writers has evolved.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-g...180816187.html

NEW YORK – They arrived surrounded by lawyers, each wearing a blue suit and displeased expression. Here was Roger Goodell and here was Tom Brady back in federal court in a fight over power, ego and legacy, as much as whether the footballs were deflated in January's AFC championship game.

New York Giants owner John Mara came in an attempt to soften the face of the league's side a bit. Jay Feely, a long-time NFL kicker and friend of Brady's from back at the University of Michigan, arrived to stand by his side.

Once again, nothing worked. A private meeting in front of Judge Richard M. Berman yielded nothing. No one budged. No one backed down. No settlement was reached.
And now both sides roll the dice and sit and wait for a ruling.

"Tomorrow or the day after," Berman said of when he would likely announce whether to vacate Brady's four-game suspension. He assured it would come before Sept. 4, when both sides requested an answer so the New England Patriots can begin preparing for the season opener with or without their star quarterback.

So that's that, all or nothing, all or everything, all eyes on the court docket here.

For Brady it's either a quarter of the season lost or a measure of redemption gained. For Goodell it's either a reaffirmation of the totality of his authority or another humiliating public defeat.

There may be appeals and requests for stays and thus months still to go, what will be won, what may not be done. None of that minimized the tension and drama inside Berman's 17th-floor courtroom here on Monday, when a case that started as a curiosity on that playoff night boiled toward a milestone, if not a conclusion.

Berman clearly knows how he is going to rule and likely has much of the decision already written. He's read and heard it all over the past month. There were no new arguments on Monday. The chief attorneys, Daniel Nash of the NFL and Jeffrey Kessler of the NFL Players Association, both merely stood and praised the efforts of all sides even though, as sometimes happens, they just couldn't reach a settlement.

"This is a time Mr. Nash and I are going to agree," Kessler joked.

The inability to find common ground is not a surprise. Tom Brady was simply never going to admit he had any role in the tampering of those footballs, or even that the footballs were ever tampered with in the first place.

First off, after he said as much under oath and then introduced the transcript into federal court, doing so would risk a perjury charge. More importantly though, it would be a complete reversal, making him a liar and a cheat, crushing his image among not just fans but, most importantly according to those that know him best, his own children.

He also very well may be innocent. The NFL never produced much of a case against him, let alone that the footballs were even unnaturally deflated.

So the only way a settlement could go down was for Goodell to drop any demands for an admission of guilt. He'd have to settle for Brady merely acknowledging a failure to fully cooperate with the investigation. That, however, would be a serious concession from a commissioner who's built his career on cracking heads among misbehaving players.

So there was the irresistible force clashing with the unmovable object, each willing to lose in court as long as he could still save face.
It has been, if nothing else, a remarkable showdown of oversized personalities.

In court Monday, the two men, rich and famous and atop their chosen professions, refused to even look at each other.

When the session was adjourned, both were forced to awkwardly wait for the galley to clear out of media and observers, leaving them within a few feet of each other a couple table rows apart.

Brady stood first and wandered over to one wood-paneled wall of the ornate courtroom. He stuffed his hands in his pocket, looking as intense as any tight fourth-quarter drive. Feely stood by his side and the two eventually hugged.

Goodell, seated in front, stood slowly and also put his hands in his pocket, looking down and then turning in the opposite direction of Brady, trying to wear a face of nonchalance.

Eight months into this scandal, after swings of allegations and misrepresentations, of false media leaks and broadside-legal attacks, the distrust and disgust were clear: Two men known for their ability to smoothly glide through life, with fashion and fabulous hair, looked strangely uncomfortable.

No one ever wants to sit in this position, leaving it to another man, federal judge or not, to declare whether he or she is a cheat or a fraud or a bully or a bum.

Here these two are though, going down that awkward path together. Their lives are seemingly too charmed for this, yet they were like a couple of rivals on opposite sides of the schoolyard, unwilling to even acknowledge the other's presence in front of onlookers.

The stakes seem higher for Goodell, if only because his legal argument here is based on the 1981 Supreme Court decision MLBPA v. Garvey, which essentially prohibits judges from interfering with the decision of arbitrators even if they are horrendously flawed or based on inaccurate facts. Arguing you have the right to be a dictator isn't ideal in public relations terms.

As such, Goodell and the NFL could certainly prevail in front of Berman but do so via a ruling full of the same kind of harsh verbiage that the judge used during two prior public sessions.

It's clear that no matter which way Berman goes, he looked upon the NFL's judicial system in general, and the league's conduct in this case specifically, as lacking any semblance of fairness or competency. He could unload in the ruling and leave Goodell laid out, even if he's technically victorious.

That's the risk Goodell was willing to take. And one Brady is willing to go with, essentially entering the verdict stage with a two-pronged chance at redemption – either total or at least in the court of public opinion. A loss and a four-game suspension would hurt, but he could at least point to an impartial federal judge down in New York agreeing that Goodell is out of line.

It's certainly reasonable that the NFL initially erred when it failed to comprehend Ideal Gas Law and thus initially thought any Patriots football that measured below 12.5 pounds per square inch of inflation was a sign of nefarious conduct. It immediately went after a speeding ticket like a homicide case.

But by the time the league should've have dialed it back, it had already leaked prejudicial stories and begun building a case against Brady and two Patriots locker room attendants. The NFL never was able to find a smoking gun or much more than suspicions, but that didn't matter.

The NFL not only never backed down, it just kept doubling down, believing the full force of the league's power – both in the CBA and in its ability to manipulate national reporters – would overwhelm Brady.

The league may be correct and on the verge of a show-of-force victory. It may be wrong and headed for a comeuppance.

It's all up to Judge Berman now. Who knows what he thinks and who knows what he'll rule. On Monday he seemed eager to make it known though as he sent the two men in fancy blue suits off into the Manhattan morning, Goodell via a black Escalade, Brady in a Chevy Suburban. Each is left awaiting his word.

The QB v. the Commissioner, it's all or everything now.

Amnorix · 09-03-2015, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChargers

Berman is a union stooge, just like the clown in Minnesota.

Goodell is the stooge. He keeps going waaay overboard, and LOSING. And it's always for basically the same reason -- he keeps making shit up as he goes.

Federal judge Doty

Federal judge Berman

His own PREDECESSOR AS COMMISSION!! Tagliabue

All the same thing -- "WTF are you doing?!?"

BigCatDaddy · 09-03-2015, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

The penalty for equipment violations is clearly laid out in the CBA and was enforced per the CBA during last season.

$25,000 per violation.

If you think the CBA needs enforced the the suspension is bullshit. If you believe otherwise you are an idiot with an agenda and nothing more.

They were also pointing out the "generally aware" shit. Basically saying any player aware of a violation like a teammate using PEDs should also be suspeneded under that guideline.

Amnorix · 09-03-2015, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notorious

Now the Pats fans will realize just how badly you can be ****ed by the officiating.

Integrity of the NFL?!?

philfree · 09-03-2015, 08:41 AM

I think Brady should have been made to give his phone text records to the judge. A would think that it would be real easy to only look at the texts to and from the numbers of the guys who handled the balls and deflated them. Brady's personal life would have to come into question. However I don't think that the judge was concerned about the cheating as much as he was the right of Goodell to suspend Brady.

Marcellus · 09-03-2015, 08:41 AM

interesting tidbit. What was the leauge hiding?

Quote:

He warned the league that he had the authority to overturn its punishment of Brady if he found the NFL acted unfairly by refusing to deliver NFL Executive Vice President Jeff Pash as a witness even though he worked on the NFL investigation.

Amnorix · 09-03-2015, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

Nobody gives a shit about Farmer, while everyone wants to suck Brady's dick

Four games may or may not be overkill, but he ABSOLUTELY did it, and there was ABSOLUTELY a rule that applied to him.

The NFL rules regarding equipmetn violations don't even apply to players.

There is at least some doubt as to whether or not he did it.

And the cooperation thing is bullshit too. The phone is a red herring.

The two circumstances have absolutely nothing in common.

ClevelandBronco · 09-03-2015, 08:42 AM

Great news for the game and the league. Suck it, all you Goodell butt boys and everyone else who envies the Pats' success.

Pasta Little Brioni · 09-03-2015, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

It's hilarious you guys are acting like this is the only time Goodell has gotten his ass handed to him over punishment and it's just the Patriots.

The ignorance around here is just barreling at times.

Like you thinking the suspension was for an equipment violation?

BigCatDaddy · 09-03-2015, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball

American legal system....how much can you pay to make it go away

Who has more money in this case?

**ChiefGator** · 09-03-2015, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

They were also pointing out the "generally aware" shit. Basically saying any player aware of a violation like a teammate using PEDs should also be suspeneded under that guideline.

Yep, the moment I read that line from the Wells Report, I assumed the league would at least reduce the penalty. That 'generally aware' nonsense is.. nonsense.

Pasta Little Brioni · 09-03-2015, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

Who has more money in this case?

The league is cheap

**BossChief** · 09-03-2015, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefGator

Honestly, I think he could have appealed to the league and gotten it reduced to two games. :: shrug ::

When he got his DUI, the penalty was only a fine...NO SUSPENSION. The rule change happened AFTER HE GOT HIS DUI...

KCTitus · 09-03-2015, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Goodell is the stooge. He keeps going waaay overboard, and LOSING. And it's always for basically the same reason -- he keeps making shit up as he goes....

This is the biggest problem, IMO. NFL's new 'court' system that adjudicates players conduct above and beyond the actual legal system will lead to the ruination of this league. Power corrupts...absolute power corrupts, absolutely.

Amnorix · 09-03-2015, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuckdaddy

Hide shit and don't cooperate and you get nothing?

Real questions re: failure to cooperate:

You do know he turned over zillions of emails?

You do know that he made himself available to give evidence to Wells?

You know that the NFL has no right to his phone? And that they got the phones from EVERYONE associated with the Patriots (other than players) that could have texts or emails relating to deflation. Even Bill Belichick's phone was turned over.

You do know that the punishment was handed down BEFORE the NFL even knew that he destroyed the phone?

**SAUTO** · 09-03-2015, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penbrook

Brady should of been suspended but 4 games was way too much. Maybe a game or two but this is Goodell's fault. They had a chance to meet before and come to a settlement but his ****ing who said 4 games still!

the max penalty is supposed to be a 25,000 fine...

08-31-2015, 01:45 PM
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	Brady v. NFL: No Settlement; Judge Berman to Decide Can't find the old thread. Brady and Goodell were back in NYC today for settlement talks. No progress. Judge Berman said he would likely decide "in the next day or two" and definitely before September 4th. Interesting how the narrative among the national writers has evolved. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-g...180816187.html NEW YORK – They arrived surrounded by lawyers, each wearing a blue suit and displeased expression. Here was Roger Goodell and here was Tom Brady back in federal court in a fight over power, ego and legacy, as much as whether the footballs were deflated in January's AFC championship game. New York Giants owner John Mara came in an attempt to soften the face of the league's side a bit. Jay Feely, a long-time NFL kicker and friend of Brady's from back at the University of Michigan, arrived to stand by his side. Once again, nothing worked. A private meeting in front of Judge Richard M. Berman yielded nothing. No one budged. No one backed down. No settlement was reached. And now both sides roll the dice and sit and wait for a ruling. "Tomorrow or the day after," Berman said of when he would likely announce whether to vacate Brady's four-game suspension. He assured it would come before Sept. 4, when both sides requested an answer so the New England Patriots can begin preparing for the season opener with or without their star quarterback. So that's that, all or nothing, all or everything, all eyes on the court docket here. For Brady it's either a quarter of the season lost or a measure of redemption gained. For Goodell it's either a reaffirmation of the totality of his authority or another humiliating public defeat. There may be appeals and requests for stays and thus months still to go, what will be won, what may not be done. None of that minimized the tension and drama inside Berman's 17th-floor courtroom here on Monday, when a case that started as a curiosity on that playoff night boiled toward a milestone, if not a conclusion. Berman clearly knows how he is going to rule and likely has much of the decision already written. He's read and heard it all over the past month. There were no new arguments on Monday. The chief attorneys, Daniel Nash of the NFL and Jeffrey Kessler of the NFL Players Association, both merely stood and praised the efforts of all sides even though, as sometimes happens, they just couldn't reach a settlement. "This is a time Mr. Nash and I are going to agree," Kessler joked. The inability to find common ground is not a surprise. Tom Brady was simply never going to admit he had any role in the tampering of those footballs, or even that the footballs were ever tampered with in the first place. First off, after he said as much under oath and then introduced the transcript into federal court, doing so would risk a perjury charge. More importantly though, it would be a complete reversal, making him a liar and a cheat, crushing his image among not just fans but, most importantly according to those that know him best, his own children. He also very well may be innocent. The NFL never produced much of a case against him, let alone that the footballs were even unnaturally deflated. So the only way a settlement could go down was for Goodell to drop any demands for an admission of guilt. He'd have to settle for Brady merely acknowledging a failure to fully cooperate with the investigation. That, however, would be a serious concession from a commissioner who's built his career on cracking heads among misbehaving players. So there was the irresistible force clashing with the unmovable object, each willing to lose in court as long as he could still save face. It has been, if nothing else, a remarkable showdown of oversized personalities. In court Monday, the two men, rich and famous and atop their chosen professions, refused to even look at each other. When the session was adjourned, both were forced to awkwardly wait for the galley to clear out of media and observers, leaving them within a few feet of each other a couple table rows apart. Brady stood first and wandered over to one wood-paneled wall of the ornate courtroom. He stuffed his hands in his pocket, looking as intense as any tight fourth-quarter drive. Feely stood by his side and the two eventually hugged. Goodell, seated in front, stood slowly and also put his hands in his pocket, looking down and then turning in the opposite direction of Brady, trying to wear a face of nonchalance. Eight months into this scandal, after swings of allegations and misrepresentations, of false media leaks and broadside-legal attacks, the distrust and disgust were clear: Two men known for their ability to smoothly glide through life, with fashion and fabulous hair, looked strangely uncomfortable. No one ever wants to sit in this position, leaving it to another man, federal judge or not, to declare whether he or she is a cheat or a fraud or a bully or a bum. Here these two are though, going down that awkward path together. Their lives are seemingly too charmed for this, yet they were like a couple of rivals on opposite sides of the schoolyard, unwilling to even acknowledge the other's presence in front of onlookers. The stakes seem higher for Goodell, if only because his legal argument here is based on the 1981 Supreme Court decision MLBPA v. Garvey, which essentially prohibits judges from interfering with the decision of arbitrators even if they are horrendously flawed or based on inaccurate facts. Arguing you have the right to be a dictator isn't ideal in public relations terms. As such, Goodell and the NFL could certainly prevail in front of Berman but do so via a ruling full of the same kind of harsh verbiage that the judge used during two prior public sessions. It's clear that no matter which way Berman goes, he looked upon the NFL's judicial system in general, and the league's conduct in this case specifically, as lacking any semblance of fairness or competency. He could unload in the ruling and leave Goodell laid out, even if he's technically victorious. That's the risk Goodell was willing to take. And one Brady is willing to go with, essentially entering the verdict stage with a two-pronged chance at redemption – either total or at least in the court of public opinion. A loss and a four-game suspension would hurt, but he could at least point to an impartial federal judge down in New York agreeing that Goodell is out of line. It's certainly reasonable that the NFL initially erred when it failed to comprehend Ideal Gas Law and thus initially thought any Patriots football that measured below 12.5 pounds per square inch of inflation was a sign of nefarious conduct. It immediately went after a speeding ticket like a homicide case. But by the time the league should've have dialed it back, it had already leaked prejudicial stories and begun building a case against Brady and two Patriots locker room attendants. The NFL never was able to find a smoking gun or much more than suspicions, but that didn't matter. The NFL not only never backed down, it just kept doubling down, believing the full force of the league's power – both in the CBA and in its ability to manipulate national reporters – would overwhelm Brady. The league may be correct and on the verge of a show-of-force victory. It may be wrong and headed for a comeuppance. It's all up to Judge Berman now. Who knows what he thinks and who knows what he'll rule. On Monday he seemed eager to make it known though as he sent the two men in fancy blue suits off into the Manhattan morning, Goodell via a black Escalade, Brady in a Chevy Suburban. Each is left awaiting his word. The QB v. the Commissioner, it's all or everything now.
Posts: 43,125

09-03-2015, 08:41 AM	#184
philfree Indian Twitter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Free Agency Casino cash: $1356198	I think Brady should have been made to give his phone text records to the judge. A would think that it would be real easy to only look at the texts to and from the numbers of the guys who handled the balls and deflated them. Brady's personal life would have to come into question. However I don't think that the judge was concerned about the cheating as much as he was the right of Goodell to suspend Brady. __________________ [/SIGPIC]
Posts: 15,032

09-03-2015, 08:42 AM	#187
ClevelandBronco I'm with the banned. Join Date: Sep 2006 Casino cash: $5658955	Great news for the game and the league. Suck it, all you Goodell butt boys and everyone else who envies the Pats' success. __________________ "Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth ..." – Pope Saint John Paul II
Posts: 28,113