Chiefs Justin Houston or Derrick Thomas? Similar looks four years into careers - Page 13

thabear04 · 09-01-2015, 10:54 AM

http://www.chiefs.com/news/article-2...b-ae8aef50333d

1. Justin Houston or Derrick Thomas? Similar looks four years into careers

“Thomas holds the Chiefs’ record with 45 forced fumbles, and in 1992 he recorded a team-record eight. He also recovered more fumbles than anybody in Chiefs history with 19, sometimes recovering the fumbles he forced with a quickness that left many offensive linemen wondering what had just zipped by.

“The first step is what made Derrick so phenomenal,” said Rich Baldinger, a former Chiefs offensive lineman who played four seasons with Thomas. “His first step was so quick, and his flexibility, knowing how to drop his shoulder and turn the corner.”

Although the players’ listed dimensions are similar — both 6 feet 3, with Houston listed at 258 and Thomas at 255 — they took different routes to their sacks.” READ MORE…

In his first visit to Chiefs training camp in St. Joseph, former general manager Carl Peterson indulged an inquisitor about Derrick Thomas.

The cornerstone of the Chiefs’ success in the 1990s. … A game-changer with his speed and first step. … Not crushing quarterbacks but more interested in the forced fumble.

No more than 50 feet away as Peterson continued, a cadence of thwaps, like a boxer hitting a speed bag in perfect rhythm, diverted attention.

Justin Houston was getting in his post-practice work, a hand-eye coordination drill on a blocking sled. This is how Houston finished every day, he and Tamba Hali, and sometimes younger Chiefs following the leaders.

“Obviously a standout player,” Peterson said. “He’s on his way.”

(This story is part of The Kansas City Star’s Football 2015 special section that publishes Sunday, Aug. 30. Pick one up and check out more here.)

Perhaps one day to the place where Peterson was heading in the next few days — to Canton, Ohio, and the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Peterson would soon be there to pay tribute to inductee Will Shields, the great Chiefs offensive lineman.

While there, Peterson would also remember his friend, Thomas, his first draft pick as the Chiefs’ new general manager in 1989 and to whom he paid the ultimate tribute — Thomas’ posthumous Hall of Fame enshrinement speech in 2009.

“He has a chance,” Peterson said of Houston. “He has the talent, and, knock on wood, he stays healthy.”

Comparisons between Justin Houston and Derrick Thomas gained momentum as the 2014 season unfolded and Houston’s sack totals went from those of a solid Pro Bowl selection to epic.

Starting with the Chiefs’ third game, a victory at Miami, Houston recorded at least one sack in six straight games, including five in a two-game stretch.

At midseason, Houston had 12 sacks. Since Thomas’ final season in 1999, only two Chiefs have amassed that many sacks for an entire season: Jared Allen with 15 1/2 in 2007 and Hali with 14 1/2 in 2010.

Clearly, Houston was bound for something special.

After two games without a sack, a new streak started. Houston recorded at last one sack over the Chiefs’ final six games, culminating with a four-sack game in the finale against the San Diego Chargers. That matched the best game in the NFL last season.

The final tally: An NFL-best 22 sacks, eclipsing Thomas’ team record of 20 set in 1990 and falling half a sack short of Michael Strahan’s league record from 2001.

Following the path of Bobby Bell, Willie Lanier and Thomas, the Chiefs are convinced their next great linebacker has arrived. This summer, they rewarded Houston with a six-year, $101 million deal, with $52.5 million guaranteed.

The Chiefs speak of Houston as a cornerstone player, just as the organization described Thomas in the 1990s.

“He became a symbol of our success,” Peterson said. “He was our game-changer.”

Houston is becoming that player for the Chiefs. But can he become as productive as Derrick Thomas?

After four seasons, the former Southeastern Conference stars — Houston from Georgia, Thomas from Alabama — posted similar numbers. In 63 games, Thomas had 58 sacks and appeared in four Pro Bowls.

Houston has 48 1/2 sacks and three Pro Bowl appearances.

The biggest statistical gap speaks to their difference in playing styles. Four years into his career, Thomas had 21 forced fumbles. Houston has forced seven.

“John Elway said Derrick never wanted to kill him, he just wanted the take the ball from him,” Peterson said. “Derrick could change the course of a game with a single play. Invariably, when we needed a sack, Derrick, he’d get it. If we needed a fumble, he’d force it or get it.”

Thomas holds the Chiefs’ record with 45 forced fumbles, and in 1992 he recorded a team-record eight. He also recovered more fumbles than anybody in Chiefs history with 19, sometimes recovering the fumbles he forced with a quickness that left many offensive linemen wondering what had just zipped by.

“The first step is what made Derrick so phenomenal,” said Rich Baldinger, a former Chiefs offensive lineman who played four seasons with Thomas. “His first step was so quick, and his flexibility, knowing how to drop his shoulder and turn the corner.”

Although the players’ listed dimensions are similar — both 6 feet 3, with Houston listed at 258 and Thomas at 255 — they took different routes to their sacks.

“Justin’s physicality is special,” Baldinger said. “So even if he doesn’t beat someone with his speed like Derrick could, he has the ability to bull-rush him.

“Also, you have to account for No. 50 when you’re run-blocking. He can defeat any tight end in the league. Ain’t no tight end that’s going to block him.”

Chiefs defensive coordinator Bob Sutton calls Houston an ideal power-and-speed player who brings versatility.

“We move him around a lot, which really helps us from a scheme standpoint,” Sutton said. “You don’t know where he’s going to be or what he’s going to do. Sometimes he plays inside, sometimes on the right side. For a guy to be able to do that, it helps us and makes him an effective player.”

One of the most important common denominators is what surrounds the two defensive playmakers.

A year before the Chiefs took Thomas in the first round with the fourth overall selection, they had drafted defensive Neil Smith from Nebraska with the second overall pick. Together, Thomas and Smith grew into a dynamic duo, playing off each other. They were teammates through the 1996 season, and Smith was a first-team All-Pro once and played in five Pro Bowls with the Chiefs.

Alongside Houston there’s Hali, a five-time Pro Bowler who is about to begin his 10th season. When Houston was breaking into the league, Hali absorbed the double teams. Now, it’s Houston drawing the double teams — and sometimes more.

“I told Tamba, ‘Go tell (Houston) he owes you some of that money,’” said Peterson, who drafted Hali. “‘You make him better and he makes you better.’”

Where the Chiefs would like to see Houston catch Thomas is in team success. Through their first four years, Thomas’ teams went to the playoffs three times. There would be three more years of playoff appearances, including the 1993 AFC championship game.

In 11 seasons, Thomas played for six playoff teams and three division winners. In Houston’s four seasons, the Chiefs have appeared in one playoff game and haven’t won a division title.

Houston has the sack record, and he has established himself as one of the NFL’s top players (and among its richest). Thomas’s first four years statistically were his best. Houston wants to keep rising.

“How do I top last year?” Houston said. “I put last year behind me and look forward to this year. I’m going to continue to do what I do …continue to stay focused and work like I’ve been working. Nothing changes.”

TALE OF THE TAPE
Here’s how Justin Houston stacks up with Derrick Thomas through their first four NFL seasons:

Houston Category Thomas

6 feet 3 Height 6 feet 3

258 Weight 255

59 Games played 63

48 1/2 Sacks (total) 58

22 Sacks (single-season high) 20

7 Forced fumbles 21

3 Pro Bowl selections 4

Vietnam58 · 09-03-2015, 07:19 AM

i dont knwo if i believe that the NFL is purposesly shun the Chiefs. . i think people in gereneral dont have much intrerest ina consistantly sub par team that usually doesnt make the palyoff s and when they do they fall fast. . we got some love in 2003 and def got some shine wehn Montana wss here.

*****I cant post photos due to my "new account" status ...anyway to unblock that feature?****

. . but if you open up nfl webpage right now Jamaal is front and center of it. .

Saccopoo · 09-03-2015, 10:20 AM

The nice thing about Houston is that he's currently playing with one of the very best strip artists I've ever seen in Tamba Hali. (Second only to Thomas in any player I have watched.). He'll continue to learn those nuances and grow into the most dominant defensive player in the league. I'm convinced that having a consummate professional like Hali here for Houston's entry into the league has helped him tremendously. Same for Dee Ford, who, if he is willing to learn has the physical potential to also be one of the best.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 09-03-2015, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

The nice thing about Houston is that he's currently playing with one of the very best strip artists I've ever seen in Tamba Hali. (Second only to Thomas in any player I have watched.). He'll continue to learn those nuances and grow into the most dominant defensive player in the league. I'm convinced that having a consummate professional like Hali here for Houston's entry into the league has helped him tremendously. Same for Dee Ford, who, if he is willing to learn has the physical potential to also be one of the best.

I believe Ford will eventually get it.

milkman · 09-03-2015, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

The nice thing about Houston is that he's currently playing with one of the very best strip artists I've ever seen in Tamba Hali. (Second only to Thomas in any player I have watched.). He'll continue to learn those nuances and grow into the most dominant defensive player in the league. I'm convinced that having a consummate professional like Hali here for Houston's entry into the league has helped him tremendously. Same for Dee Ford, who, if he is willing to learn has the physical potential to also be one of the best.

Wait?

Weren't you the one pissing and moaning about Dorsey taking Ford in the draft?

Saccopoo · 09-03-2015, 09:30 PM

Yep, but there is no denying the physical gifts that the guy has and if he can learn the position from a guy like Halifax and Houston perhaps the pick won't end up being a wasted one.

WhiteWhale · 09-04-2015, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Not like Priest.

Nor does Charles have the same receiving ability.

The only area that Charles beats Holmes is durability.

You're adorable.

He has a higher YPC with a worse cast around him.

You can't buy intelligence.

Vietnam58 · 09-18-2015, 08:55 AM

yall still sticking with Charles?

ThaVirus · 09-18-2015, 09:45 AM

Yes.

Have you forgotten that Holmes fumbled away our second best shot at winning a playoff game since the turn of the century?

ThaVirus · 09-18-2015, 09:47 AM

The Packers have lost games in which Aaron Rodgers has thrown 2+ INT, the Texans have lost games in which Watt had 0 sacks, and the Lions have lost games in which Calvin Johnson couldn't break 40 yards.

Players can't be perfect all the time. Charles is money about 98% of the time so his **** ups can be overlooked from time to time.

09-01-2015, 10:54 AM
thabear04 MTFU Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The Valley Heat Casino cash: $5570450	Justin Houston or Derrick Thomas? Similar looks four years into careers http://www.chiefs.com/news/article-2...b-ae8aef50333d 1. Justin Houston or Derrick Thomas? Similar looks four years into careers “Thomas holds the Chiefs’ record with 45 forced fumbles, and in 1992 he recorded a team-record eight. He also recovered more fumbles than anybody in Chiefs history with 19, sometimes recovering the fumbles he forced with a quickness that left many offensive linemen wondering what had just zipped by. “The first step is what made Derrick so phenomenal,” said Rich Baldinger, a former Chiefs offensive lineman who played four seasons with Thomas. “His first step was so quick, and his flexibility, knowing how to drop his shoulder and turn the corner.” Although the players’ listed dimensions are similar — both 6 feet 3, with Houston listed at 258 and Thomas at 255 — they took different routes to their sacks.” READ MORE… In his first visit to Chiefs training camp in St. Joseph, former general manager Carl Peterson indulged an inquisitor about Derrick Thomas. The cornerstone of the Chiefs’ success in the 1990s. … A game-changer with his speed and first step. … Not crushing quarterbacks but more interested in the forced fumble. No more than 50 feet away as Peterson continued, a cadence of thwaps, like a boxer hitting a speed bag in perfect rhythm, diverted attention. Justin Houston was getting in his post-practice work, a hand-eye coordination drill on a blocking sled. This is how Houston finished every day, he and Tamba Hali, and sometimes younger Chiefs following the leaders. “Obviously a standout player,” Peterson said. “He’s on his way.” (This story is part of The Kansas City Star’s Football 2015 special section that publishes Sunday, Aug. 30. Pick one up and check out more here.) Perhaps one day to the place where Peterson was heading in the next few days — to Canton, Ohio, and the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Peterson would soon be there to pay tribute to inductee Will Shields, the great Chiefs offensive lineman. While there, Peterson would also remember his friend, Thomas, his first draft pick as the Chiefs’ new general manager in 1989 and to whom he paid the ultimate tribute — Thomas’ posthumous Hall of Fame enshrinement speech in 2009. “He has a chance,” Peterson said of Houston. “He has the talent, and, knock on wood, he stays healthy.” Comparisons between Justin Houston and Derrick Thomas gained momentum as the 2014 season unfolded and Houston’s sack totals went from those of a solid Pro Bowl selection to epic. Starting with the Chiefs’ third game, a victory at Miami, Houston recorded at least one sack in six straight games, including five in a two-game stretch. At midseason, Houston had 12 sacks. Since Thomas’ final season in 1999, only two Chiefs have amassed that many sacks for an entire season: Jared Allen with 15 1/2 in 2007 and Hali with 14 1/2 in 2010. Clearly, Houston was bound for something special. After two games without a sack, a new streak started. Houston recorded at last one sack over the Chiefs’ final six games, culminating with a four-sack game in the finale against the San Diego Chargers. That matched the best game in the NFL last season. The final tally: An NFL-best 22 sacks, eclipsing Thomas’ team record of 20 set in 1990 and falling half a sack short of Michael Strahan’s league record from 2001. Following the path of Bobby Bell, Willie Lanier and Thomas, the Chiefs are convinced their next great linebacker has arrived. This summer, they rewarded Houston with a six-year, $101 million deal, with $52.5 million guaranteed. The Chiefs speak of Houston as a cornerstone player, just as the organization described Thomas in the 1990s. “He became a symbol of our success,” Peterson said. “He was our game-changer.” Houston is becoming that player for the Chiefs. But can he become as productive as Derrick Thomas? After four seasons, the former Southeastern Conference stars — Houston from Georgia, Thomas from Alabama — posted similar numbers. In 63 games, Thomas had 58 sacks and appeared in four Pro Bowls. Houston has 48 1/2 sacks and three Pro Bowl appearances. The biggest statistical gap speaks to their difference in playing styles. Four years into his career, Thomas had 21 forced fumbles. Houston has forced seven. “John Elway said Derrick never wanted to kill him, he just wanted the take the ball from him,” Peterson said. “Derrick could change the course of a game with a single play. Invariably, when we needed a sack, Derrick, he’d get it. If we needed a fumble, he’d force it or get it.” Thomas holds the Chiefs’ record with 45 forced fumbles, and in 1992 he recorded a team-record eight. He also recovered more fumbles than anybody in Chiefs history with 19, sometimes recovering the fumbles he forced with a quickness that left many offensive linemen wondering what had just zipped by. “The first step is what made Derrick so phenomenal,” said Rich Baldinger, a former Chiefs offensive lineman who played four seasons with Thomas. “His first step was so quick, and his flexibility, knowing how to drop his shoulder and turn the corner.” Although the players’ listed dimensions are similar — both 6 feet 3, with Houston listed at 258 and Thomas at 255 — they took different routes to their sacks. “Justin’s physicality is special,” Baldinger said. “So even if he doesn’t beat someone with his speed like Derrick could, he has the ability to bull-rush him. “Also, you have to account for No. 50 when you’re run-blocking. He can defeat any tight end in the league. Ain’t no tight end that’s going to block him.” Chiefs defensive coordinator Bob Sutton calls Houston an ideal power-and-speed player who brings versatility. “We move him around a lot, which really helps us from a scheme standpoint,” Sutton said. “You don’t know where he’s going to be or what he’s going to do. Sometimes he plays inside, sometimes on the right side. For a guy to be able to do that, it helps us and makes him an effective player.” One of the most important common denominators is what surrounds the two defensive playmakers. A year before the Chiefs took Thomas in the first round with the fourth overall selection, they had drafted defensive Neil Smith from Nebraska with the second overall pick. Together, Thomas and Smith grew into a dynamic duo, playing off each other. They were teammates through the 1996 season, and Smith was a first-team All-Pro once and played in five Pro Bowls with the Chiefs. Alongside Houston there’s Hali, a five-time Pro Bowler who is about to begin his 10th season. When Houston was breaking into the league, Hali absorbed the double teams. Now, it’s Houston drawing the double teams — and sometimes more. “I told Tamba, ‘Go tell (Houston) he owes you some of that money,’” said Peterson, who drafted Hali. “‘You make him better and he makes you better.’” Where the Chiefs would like to see Houston catch Thomas is in team success. Through their first four years, Thomas’ teams went to the playoffs three times. There would be three more years of playoff appearances, including the 1993 AFC championship game. In 11 seasons, Thomas played for six playoff teams and three division winners. In Houston’s four seasons, the Chiefs have appeared in one playoff game and haven’t won a division title. Houston has the sack record, and he has established himself as one of the NFL’s top players (and among its richest). Thomas’s first four years statistically were his best. Houston wants to keep rising. “How do I top last year?” Houston said. “I put last year behind me and look forward to this year. I’m going to continue to do what I do …continue to stay focused and work like I’ve been working. Nothing changes.” TALE OF THE TAPE Here’s how Justin Houston stacks up with Derrick Thomas through their first four NFL seasons: Houston Category Thomas 6 feet 3 Height 6 feet 3 258 Weight 255 59 Games played 63 48 1/2 Sacks (total) 58 22 Sacks (single-season high) 20 7 Forced fumbles 21 3 Pro Bowl selections 4
Posts: 7,231

09-03-2015, 07:19 AM	#181
Vietnam58 Starter Join Date: Jan 2013 Casino cash: $10006465	i dont knwo if i believe that the NFL is purposesly shun the Chiefs. . i think people in gereneral dont have much intrerest ina consistantly sub par team that usually doesnt make the palyoff s and when they do they fall fast. . we got some love in 2003 and def got some shine wehn Montana wss here. ***I cant post photos due to my "new account" status ...anyway to unblock that feature?** . . but if you open up nfl webpage right now Jamaal is front and center of it. . Last edited by Vietnam58; 09-03-2015 at 07:35 AM..
Posts: 330

09-03-2015, 10:20 AM	#182
Saccopoo Kindness in words... Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Zion Casino cash: $10025483	The nice thing about Houston is that he's currently playing with one of the very best strip artists I've ever seen in Tamba Hali. (Second only to Thomas in any player I have watched.). He'll continue to learn those nuances and grow into the most dominant defensive player in the league. I'm convinced that having a consummate professional like Hali here for Houston's entry into the league has helped him tremendously. Same for Dee Ford, who, if he is willing to learn has the physical potential to also be one of the best.
Posts: 15,450

09-03-2015, 09:30 PM	#185
Saccopoo Kindness in words... Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Zion Casino cash: $10025483	Yep, but there is no denying the physical gifts that the guy has and if he can learn the position from a guy like Halifax and Houston perhaps the pick won't end up being a wasted one.
Posts: 15,450

09-18-2015, 08:55 AM	#187
Vietnam58 Starter Join Date: Jan 2013 Casino cash: $10006465	yall still sticking with Charles?
Posts: 330

09-18-2015, 09:45 AM	#188
ThaVirus You gotta kill a few people Join Date: Sep 2007 Casino cash: $1712369	Yes. Have you forgotten that Holmes fumbled away our second best shot at winning a playoff game since the turn of the century?
Posts: 44,515

09-18-2015, 09:47 AM	#189
ThaVirus You gotta kill a few people Join Date: Sep 2007 Casino cash: $1712369	The Packers have lost games in which Aaron Rodgers has thrown 2+ INT, the Texans have lost games in which Watt had 0 sacks, and the Lions have lost games in which Calvin Johnson couldn't break 40 yards. Players can't be perfect all the time. Charles is money about 98% of the time so his **** ups can be overlooked from time to time.
Posts: 44,515