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04-01-2012, 03:23 PM | |
oxymoron
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Game of Thrones *Spoiler* Thread
There's been some recent confusion with the old spoiler thread, so I'm kicking off a new one for tonight's premiere. This is going to be the one for folks who've read all the books. So anything anybody might want to talk about is in bounds. Suffice to say, if you haven't read the books, you'll probably want to stay out of here until you do...
I'll bump the old spoiler-free thread shortly in case anybody's interested. For future reference the link to that one is here |
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05-05-2014, 08:50 AM | #1891 | |
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2. Again, Tywin. 3. Littlefinger kills the Hand, kills the King, and kills his wife. 4. I don't really see why she should be hated for this. 5. Ok? She hasn't done anything nearly as obscenely horrible as throwing a child from a window, but Jaime is much more well-liked. The main differences I see between Cercei and a lot of other, more well-received characters are: 1) She is a woman 2) Her insults are not as witty as Tywin/Tyrion/Littlefinger's would be. |
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05-05-2014, 09:00 AM | #1892 |
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In the books, she's also bad because she's so inept while thinking she's adept. She bungles everything politically, makes tons of wrong decisions, trusts the wrong people, supports the wrong people, accuses the wrong people, and basically just makes a mess of everything while maintaining her self-assured superiority complex. She's completely unsuited for the role she's in (unlike Tywin, Tyrion, Littlefinger, etc..). It's kind of shitty for GRRM to write her that way but it's the way it is and gives some credence to the frequent accusations of misogyny in his writing.
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05-05-2014, 09:10 AM | #1893 | ||
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Jaime is not much more well liked by me, to be honest. The issue with Cercei in the books is that she really has no redeeming features at all. Tyrion had a good quote in the show -- "You love your children. It's your one redeeming quality. That and your cheekbones." Literally other than loving her children, she's completely contemptible. She seems to utterly lack any moral compass whatsoever.
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05-05-2014, 09:13 AM | #1894 | |
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Another good quote from the show. Tywin to Cercei: "I don't distrust you because you're a woman. I distrust you because you're not as smart as you think you are."
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05-05-2014, 09:41 AM | #1895 |
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I wonder if they'll start to turn Cersei's character around after Tywin dies.
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05-05-2014, 09:43 AM | #1896 |
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I have to think they are setting her up to build confidence in people then crush them. No way they would just completely change her attitude.
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05-05-2014, 09:44 AM | #1897 |
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Jamie's character develops and changes over time, while Cersei just becomes more....Cersei. And many of the worst things Jamie did were because of Cersei. His break from her is ultimately what begins whatever redemptive arc he may or may not have (since we have no earthly idea what's forthcoming).
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05-05-2014, 09:56 AM | #1898 | |
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I think the difficulty is the genre that he's in, where you often get social commentaries or straight-up 'fantasy' where roles (gender and otherwise) are so often turned on their heads, whereas he's writing something that's more straight-forward, not trying to portray the people in his stories in a way that reflects that perfect fantasy version of what we wish our world was. If that makes sense... He's really writing something more akin to historical fiction in a lot of ways. |
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05-05-2014, 10:06 AM | #1899 | |
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05-05-2014, 10:14 AM | #1900 |
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I really don't understand how she is seen as sympathetic. Her "love" of her children is as self-serving as anything else she does or feels. She uses her so called love for Joffery to advance her hatred of Tyrion. She knows she will need to influence Margaery to keep influence over Tommen so she is getting a head start on that. And now that the Lannister gold is limited, and they have tapped out the Tyrells, she will need a source. So she starts to buddy up to Oberyn, bonding over love of daughters.
She is vile in print or pixels. |
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05-05-2014, 10:33 AM | #1901 |
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Look I know that Locke's spine was poking out of his shoulder but I think he will be fine and will be back to the battle next week.
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05-05-2014, 11:21 AM | #1902 | |
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05-05-2014, 01:43 PM | #1903 | |
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Actually though, I'm having trouble determining good guy vs bad guy in this series. My favorite character has committed several murders, and is driven entirely by hate, yet is probably labeled as a good guy by most people. If love for your children is completely dismissable as a positive character trait, that leaves a lot of other characters with significantly diminished resumes as well. Cough-Catelyn-cough. Also, love for your children is easily the most important characteristic for a mother to have, whether in ASOIAF or not. Much is made of Cercei's failings, but she's been successful in a lot of ventures as well. She's been reigning as queen for a very long time, and she basically single handedly overthrew the Baratheon line and installed the Lannisters as the royal family. |
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05-05-2014, 01:55 PM | #1904 | |||
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I don't really remember Catelyn doing anything particularly unpleasant, much less evil, in the books at all, other than perhaps being less than hospitable to Jon Snow (under fairly understandable circumstances). Quote:
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05-05-2014, 02:30 PM | #1905 | |
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Yet, she's a good guy because of who her kids are. |
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