Football Tom Brady; least clutch QB in NFL history? - Page 12

Hootie · 12-22-2014, 02:48 PM

(Slow day at work for me, guys):

Tom Brady:

2005: Gets crushed by Jake Plummer and the Denver Broncos. Plays HORRENDOUSLY. Embarrassingly bad.

2006: Blows an 18 point lead to Peyton Manning in the AFCCG. Plays horrendously, and ends the game in Indy territory throwing a game ending INT to Marlon Jackson. Great clutch play.

2007: 18-1. Scores 14 points in the Super Bowl in a game they are favored to win by 13.5. Also, in the AFCCG against the Chargers, he posted a QB rating of 18 and threw 3 INT's. Very clutch, I know.

2008: KNEE CRUSHER; Cassel wins 11 games as starting QB.

2009: Gets OBLITERATED by Joe Flacco and the Ravens. Loses the game single-handedly in the 1st quarter and posts a WHOPPING QBR OF 4.2. Not a typo. FOUR POINT TWO. FOUR POINT TWO. In reference, Peyton posted a 24.4 last year against Seattle in the Super Bowl. So picture how bad that performance was, and multiply it by about 25.

2010: Lost @ home to MARK SANCHEZ AND THE JETS. But don't worry guys, Tom Brady doubled his QBR in this one and posted a respectable 8.7 EIGHT POINT SEVEN.

2011: Got to the Super Bowl by beating Tim Tebow, playing HORRENDOUSLY against the Ravens (again) in the Lee Evans game, and then overthrowing Welker to lose another Super Bowl. Clutch.

2012: Got obliterated by Joe Flacco and the Ravens despite being favored by 7. He posted a respectable 40 QBR, though, and only lost by 15 ... despite Peyton beating the team the week before only to be Rahim Moore'd. Great clutch play.

2013: Beat Andrew Luck despite throwing 0 TD's. Lost to Peyton Manning, while playing another mediocre game. 1 TD. Very clutch, Mr. Brady!

So, in short, the biggest playoff choking QB in the NFL right now is Tom Brady. In all of those aforementioned choke jobs, he was favored to lose TWICE, both to Peyton Manning (both losses).

Any more myths you want be to bust?

4.2 QBR and 8.7 QBR is Rex Grossman bad, in case anyone wanted a reference point.

keg in kc · 12-22-2014, 08:01 PM

I'm not sure how anybody could spend so much time on this board over the years and still think Tom Brady is the "board darling".

GoChargers · 12-22-2014, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

he wasn't playing against the Mark Sanchez led New York Jets?

I can't quite comprehend the nitpick.

He lost to Mark Sanchez in the playoffs. He lost to Joe Flacco 3 times in the playoffs.

You do realize QB's get a W/L in the NFL. No one ever debates a WR and says, "gee, Terrell Owens was 85-75 as a pro!" Like it or not, QB's get a W/L and it means something.

And Fivehead is 11-12 in the games that matter most. Why do you keep deflecting?

Hootie · 12-22-2014, 08:02 PM

It's a dumb ****ing stat.

He started out 9-0 with the benefit of Spygate and having the best ran organization in sports ... while being nothing more than a good game manager for the team.

He was part of the team, he wasn't THE team. Once he became THE team, they stopped winning Super Bowls (that and Spygate).

Get past shit he did 10 years ago. It's been a decade. he did all of this shit before iPods. his entire prime has been postseason fail after postseason fail

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-22-2014, 08:04 PM

Things are often complicated, which is why this place, in its infinite reductiveness, is so maddening.

Brady is a tremendous QB, but one can also make a strong case that his postseason play has been overrated by the media, particularly over the last decade, and Hootie's stats bear that out. Still, he has been a better playoff QB than Manning, who has found ways to lose in ridiculous fashion over the years, but simply because he's been better doesn't mean that you have to frame the argument as Brady=Perfect and Manning=incompetent.

Also, despite the hate for Sanchez, he essentially did four times on the road what Alex Smith did once at home: manage a game to the point where the other guys on the field could win it, but that all gets lost in the shuffle because he's the bad guy because the Chiefs didn't draft him and Alex Smith is the good guy (just like Cassel was) because of the logo on his helmet.

TL;DR version: people are ****ing stupid.

Hootie · 12-22-2014, 08:04 PM

ok lets take away spygate and peyton's first 3 postseasons

brady is 9-8
peyton is 11-9

whoooowwwweeeee

let's try and not forget our corrupt NFL commissioner destroyed all evidence of the Patriots cheating ... it was that bad

GoChargers · 12-22-2014, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

It's a dumb ****ing stat.

He started out 9-0 with the benefit of Spygate and having the best ran organization in sports ... while being nothing more than a good game manager for the team.

He was part of the team, he wasn't THE team. Once he became THE team, they stopped winning Super Bowls (that and Spygate).

Get past shit he did 10 years ago. It's been a decade. he did all of this shit before iPods. his entire prime has been postseason fail after postseason fail

Through the Walkman era, the iPod era, and the iPhone era, the one constant is Fivehead choking. 11-12 doesn't lie.

**SAUTO** · 12-22-2014, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Wow. So I went to figure something out and just realized a big part of Manning's choker reputation, and why Brady doesn't have one.

Manning has gone to the playoffs 13 times. He has been one and done EIGHT times. More than 50% of the time, he just goes home after wheezing out. Wow.

Brady, by comparison, has been one and done twice, out of 11 playoff years.

.

Exactly

**lewdog** · 12-22-2014, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

8 one and outs.

He didn't play for the Chiefs did he????

Hootie · 12-22-2014, 08:10 PM

Peyton has better postseason numbers than Tom Brady. They have both underachieved in the postseason in that regard. Postseason football is tough. They have both been competent postseason QB's. Neither of them are truly chokers. I am, however, tired of people referencing Brady's 3 Super Bowl's as some sort of modicum for why he is better than Peyton Manning. It has been 10 ****ing years since Brady, who is always a favorite in the playoffs, has won a Super Bowl. And in those 10 years, the Patriots transformed from a TOTAL TEAM to Tom Brady FEATURING the New England Patriots. Since that transformation, he's come up short every time. Every time. These are facts.

There is no shred of evidence available that suggests Peyton Manning is a choker and Tom Brady is not a choker. None.

Over the past 10 years, Peyton Manning has been the better postseason QB than Tom Brady. The games represent fact in this regard.

I have a tough time giving Tom Brady, the game manager, from over a decade ago any leash in this argument because A) spygate and B) it was a ****ing decade ago. His first Super Bowl he accounted for 1 TD, missed the AFCCG, got the benefit of the tuck rule, and watched Vinatieri transform into the GOD of kickers.

One of Peyton Manning's postseason losses against Pittsburgh saw him drive his team into field goal range to tie the game and go into OT ... out comes Vanderjagt ... and he pushes the ball about 80 yards right and they lose.

That's a Manning choke? That's a Manning one and done?

Wow. Must've been nice seeing your kicker knocking down game tying field goals in 5 feet of snow from 50 yards out.

**SAUTO** · 12-22-2014, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

he wasn't playing against the Mark Sanchez led New York Jets?

I can't quite comprehend the nitpick.

He lost to Mark Sanchez in the playoffs. He lost to Joe Flacco 3 times in the playoffs.

You do realize QB's get a W/L in the NFL. No one ever debates a WR and says, "gee, Terrell Owens was 85-75 as a pro!" Like it or not, QB's get a W/L and it means something.

Defenses get a win loss in the nfl too. We aren't talking about wide receivers.

Hootie · 12-22-2014, 08:12 PM

even the drive against the Rams, Brady dink and dunked his way to get Vinatieri a 48 yard try to win (and of course he crushes it). He made NOT ONE good play on that drive. The Rams played pussy ass prevent defense and he dumped it down to his running back 4 or 5 times and got them into field goal range.

You want me to believe that is clutch QB play?

**lewdog** · 12-22-2014, 08:15 PM

I wish Trent Green would have been the least clutch QB in NFL History.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 12-22-2014, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewdog

I wish Trent Green would have been the least clutch QB in NFL History.

I wish Manning would fall over dead.

Hootie · 12-22-2014, 08:21 PM

That's a clutch drive?

He threw 6 passes (one of them looked like intentional grounding, wasn't outside the tackle box). 3 to running backs, 1 to a TE, 1 to a receiver (thank God), and 1 out of bounds.

and then, of course, Vinatieri nails a 49 yard field goal.

That looked like a god damn Alex Smith drive.

cosmo20002 · 12-22-2014, 08:22 PM

What I've learned on CP--These guys suck:

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Brett Favre
John Elway

And apparently they suck because they have had some bad games, some of them in big games.

But it ignores that they have also had a shitload of great games, many in big games, and more great games than 99% of all QBs that have ever played. They are all among the best who ever played. Trying to argue otherwise is just dumb.

12-22-2014, 02:48 PM
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	Tom Brady; least clutch QB in NFL history? (Slow day at work for me, guys): Tom Brady: 2005: Gets crushed by Jake Plummer and the Denver Broncos. Plays HORRENDOUSLY. Embarrassingly bad. 2006: Blows an 18 point lead to Peyton Manning in the AFCCG. Plays horrendously, and ends the game in Indy territory throwing a game ending INT to Marlon Jackson. Great clutch play. 2007: 18-1. Scores 14 points in the Super Bowl in a game they are favored to win by 13.5. Also, in the AFCCG against the Chargers, he posted a QB rating of 18 and threw 3 INT's. Very clutch, I know. 2008: KNEE CRUSHER; Cassel wins 11 games as starting QB. 2009: Gets OBLITERATED by Joe Flacco and the Ravens. Loses the game single-handedly in the 1st quarter and posts a WHOPPING QBR OF 4.2. Not a typo. FOUR POINT TWO. FOUR POINT TWO. In reference, Peyton posted a 24.4 last year against Seattle in the Super Bowl. So picture how bad that performance was, and multiply it by about 25. 2010: Lost @ home to MARK SANCHEZ AND THE JETS. But don't worry guys, Tom Brady doubled his QBR in this one and posted a respectable 8.7 EIGHT POINT SEVEN. 2011: Got to the Super Bowl by beating Tim Tebow, playing HORRENDOUSLY against the Ravens (again) in the Lee Evans game, and then overthrowing Welker to lose another Super Bowl. Clutch. 2012: Got obliterated by Joe Flacco and the Ravens despite being favored by 7. He posted a respectable 40 QBR, though, and only lost by 15 ... despite Peyton beating the team the week before only to be Rahim Moore'd. Great clutch play. 2013: Beat Andrew Luck despite throwing 0 TD's. Lost to Peyton Manning, while playing another mediocre game. 1 TD. Very clutch, Mr. Brady! So, in short, the biggest playoff choking QB in the NFL right now is Tom Brady. In all of those aforementioned choke jobs, he was favored to lose TWICE, both to Peyton Manning (both losses). Any more myths you want be to bust? 4.2 QBR and 8.7 QBR is Rex Grossman bad, in case anyone wanted a reference point.
Posts: 56,356

12-22-2014, 08:01 PM	#166
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	I'm not sure how anybody could spend so much time on this board over the years and still think Tom Brady is the "board darling".
Posts: 58,682

12-22-2014, 08:02 PM	#168
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	It's a dumb ****ing stat. He started out 9-0 with the benefit of Spygate and having the best ran organization in sports ... while being nothing more than a good game manager for the team. He was part of the team, he wasn't THE team. Once he became THE team, they stopped winning Super Bowls (that and Spygate). Get past shit he did 10 years ago. It's been a decade. he did all of this shit before iPods. his entire prime has been postseason fail after postseason fail
Posts: 56,356

12-22-2014, 08:04 PM	#169
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7669572	Things are often complicated, which is why this place, in its infinite reductiveness, is so maddening. Brady is a tremendous QB, but one can also make a strong case that his postseason play has been overrated by the media, particularly over the last decade, and Hootie's stats bear that out. Still, he has been a better playoff QB than Manning, who has found ways to lose in ridiculous fashion over the years, but simply because he's been better doesn't mean that you have to frame the argument as Brady=Perfect and Manning=incompetent. Also, despite the hate for Sanchez, he essentially did four times on the road what Alex Smith did once at home: manage a game to the point where the other guys on the field could win it, but that all gets lost in the shuffle because he's the bad guy because the Chiefs didn't draft him and Alex Smith is the good guy (just like Cassel was) because of the logo on his helmet. TL;DR version: people are ****ing stupid.
Posts: 74,973

12-22-2014, 08:04 PM	#170
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	ok lets take away spygate and peyton's first 3 postseasons brady is 9-8 peyton is 11-9 whoooowwwweeeee let's try and not forget our corrupt NFL commissioner destroyed all evidence of the Patriots cheating ... it was that bad
Posts: 56,356

12-22-2014, 08:10 PM	#174
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	Peyton has better postseason numbers than Tom Brady. They have both underachieved in the postseason in that regard. Postseason football is tough. They have both been competent postseason QB's. Neither of them are truly chokers. I am, however, tired of people referencing Brady's 3 Super Bowl's as some sort of modicum for why he is better than Peyton Manning. It has been 10 **ing years since Brady, who is always a favorite in the playoffs, has won a Super Bowl. And in those 10 years, the Patriots transformed from a TOTAL TEAM to Tom Brady FEATURING the New England Patriots. Since that transformation, he's come up short every time. Every time. These are facts. There is no shred of evidence available that suggests Peyton Manning is a choker and Tom Brady is not a choker. None. Over the past 10 years, Peyton Manning has been the better postseason QB than Tom Brady. The games represent fact in this regard. I have a tough time giving Tom Brady, the game manager, from over a decade ago any leash in this argument because A) spygate and B) it was a **ing decade ago. His first Super Bowl he accounted for 1 TD, missed the AFCCG, got the benefit of the tuck rule, and watched Vinatieri transform into the GOD of kickers. One of Peyton Manning's postseason losses against Pittsburgh saw him drive his team into field goal range to tie the game and go into OT ... out comes Vanderjagt ... and he pushes the ball about 80 yards right and they lose. That's a Manning choke? That's a Manning one and done? Wow. Must've been nice seeing your kicker knocking down game tying field goals in 5 feet of snow from 50 yards out.
Posts: 56,356

12-22-2014, 08:12 PM	#176
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	even the drive against the Rams, Brady dink and dunked his way to get Vinatieri a 48 yard try to win (and of course he crushes it). He made NOT ONE good play on that drive. The Rams played pussy ass prevent defense and he dumped it down to his running back 4 or 5 times and got them into field goal range. You want me to believe that is clutch QB play?
Posts: 56,356

12-22-2014, 08:15 PM	#177
lewdog Mod Team Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Valley of the hot as **** Casino cash: $71900	I wish Trent Green would have been the least clutch QB in NFL History. __________________ 2024 Royals game thread record 3-0
Posts: 46,134

12-22-2014, 08:21 PM	#179
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	That's a clutch drive? He threw 6 passes (one of them looked like intentional grounding, wasn't outside the tackle box). 3 to running backs, 1 to a TE, 1 to a receiver (thank God), and 1 out of bounds. and then, of course, Vinatieri nails a 49 yard field goal. That looked like a god damn Alex Smith drive.
Posts: 56,356

12-22-2014, 08:22 PM	#180
cosmo20002 Debunking your bullshit Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: KC area Casino cash: $4020315	What I've learned on CP--These guys suck: Peyton Manning Tom Brady Brett Favre John Elway And apparently they suck because they have had some bad games, some of them in big games. But it ignores that they have also had a shitload of great games, many in big games, and more great games than 99% of all QBs that have ever played. They are all among the best who ever played. Trying to argue otherwise is just dumb.
Posts: 52,592