Football Brady v. NFL: No Settlement; Judge Berman to Decide - Page 12

Amnorix · 08-31-2015, 01:45 PM

Can't find the old thread. Brady and Goodell were back in NYC today for settlement talks. No progress.

Judge Berman said he would likely decide "in the next day or two" and definitely before September 4th.

Interesting how the narrative among the national writers has evolved.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-g...180816187.html

NEW YORK – They arrived surrounded by lawyers, each wearing a blue suit and displeased expression. Here was Roger Goodell and here was Tom Brady back in federal court in a fight over power, ego and legacy, as much as whether the footballs were deflated in January's AFC championship game.

New York Giants owner John Mara came in an attempt to soften the face of the league's side a bit. Jay Feely, a long-time NFL kicker and friend of Brady's from back at the University of Michigan, arrived to stand by his side.

Once again, nothing worked. A private meeting in front of Judge Richard M. Berman yielded nothing. No one budged. No one backed down. No settlement was reached.
And now both sides roll the dice and sit and wait for a ruling.

"Tomorrow or the day after," Berman said of when he would likely announce whether to vacate Brady's four-game suspension. He assured it would come before Sept. 4, when both sides requested an answer so the New England Patriots can begin preparing for the season opener with or without their star quarterback.

So that's that, all or nothing, all or everything, all eyes on the court docket here.

For Brady it's either a quarter of the season lost or a measure of redemption gained. For Goodell it's either a reaffirmation of the totality of his authority or another humiliating public defeat.

There may be appeals and requests for stays and thus months still to go, what will be won, what may not be done. None of that minimized the tension and drama inside Berman's 17th-floor courtroom here on Monday, when a case that started as a curiosity on that playoff night boiled toward a milestone, if not a conclusion.

Berman clearly knows how he is going to rule and likely has much of the decision already written. He's read and heard it all over the past month. There were no new arguments on Monday. The chief attorneys, Daniel Nash of the NFL and Jeffrey Kessler of the NFL Players Association, both merely stood and praised the efforts of all sides even though, as sometimes happens, they just couldn't reach a settlement.

"This is a time Mr. Nash and I are going to agree," Kessler joked.

The inability to find common ground is not a surprise. Tom Brady was simply never going to admit he had any role in the tampering of those footballs, or even that the footballs were ever tampered with in the first place.

First off, after he said as much under oath and then introduced the transcript into federal court, doing so would risk a perjury charge. More importantly though, it would be a complete reversal, making him a liar and a cheat, crushing his image among not just fans but, most importantly according to those that know him best, his own children.

He also very well may be innocent. The NFL never produced much of a case against him, let alone that the footballs were even unnaturally deflated.

So the only way a settlement could go down was for Goodell to drop any demands for an admission of guilt. He'd have to settle for Brady merely acknowledging a failure to fully cooperate with the investigation. That, however, would be a serious concession from a commissioner who's built his career on cracking heads among misbehaving players.

So there was the irresistible force clashing with the unmovable object, each willing to lose in court as long as he could still save face.
It has been, if nothing else, a remarkable showdown of oversized personalities.

In court Monday, the two men, rich and famous and atop their chosen professions, refused to even look at each other.

When the session was adjourned, both were forced to awkwardly wait for the galley to clear out of media and observers, leaving them within a few feet of each other a couple table rows apart.

Brady stood first and wandered over to one wood-paneled wall of the ornate courtroom. He stuffed his hands in his pocket, looking as intense as any tight fourth-quarter drive. Feely stood by his side and the two eventually hugged.

Goodell, seated in front, stood slowly and also put his hands in his pocket, looking down and then turning in the opposite direction of Brady, trying to wear a face of nonchalance.

Eight months into this scandal, after swings of allegations and misrepresentations, of false media leaks and broadside-legal attacks, the distrust and disgust were clear: Two men known for their ability to smoothly glide through life, with fashion and fabulous hair, looked strangely uncomfortable.

No one ever wants to sit in this position, leaving it to another man, federal judge or not, to declare whether he or she is a cheat or a fraud or a bully or a bum.

Here these two are though, going down that awkward path together. Their lives are seemingly too charmed for this, yet they were like a couple of rivals on opposite sides of the schoolyard, unwilling to even acknowledge the other's presence in front of onlookers.

The stakes seem higher for Goodell, if only because his legal argument here is based on the 1981 Supreme Court decision MLBPA v. Garvey, which essentially prohibits judges from interfering with the decision of arbitrators even if they are horrendously flawed or based on inaccurate facts. Arguing you have the right to be a dictator isn't ideal in public relations terms.

As such, Goodell and the NFL could certainly prevail in front of Berman but do so via a ruling full of the same kind of harsh verbiage that the judge used during two prior public sessions.

It's clear that no matter which way Berman goes, he looked upon the NFL's judicial system in general, and the league's conduct in this case specifically, as lacking any semblance of fairness or competency. He could unload in the ruling and leave Goodell laid out, even if he's technically victorious.

That's the risk Goodell was willing to take. And one Brady is willing to go with, essentially entering the verdict stage with a two-pronged chance at redemption – either total or at least in the court of public opinion. A loss and a four-game suspension would hurt, but he could at least point to an impartial federal judge down in New York agreeing that Goodell is out of line.

It's certainly reasonable that the NFL initially erred when it failed to comprehend Ideal Gas Law and thus initially thought any Patriots football that measured below 12.5 pounds per square inch of inflation was a sign of nefarious conduct. It immediately went after a speeding ticket like a homicide case.

But by the time the league should've have dialed it back, it had already leaked prejudicial stories and begun building a case against Brady and two Patriots locker room attendants. The NFL never was able to find a smoking gun or much more than suspicions, but that didn't matter.

The NFL not only never backed down, it just kept doubling down, believing the full force of the league's power – both in the CBA and in its ability to manipulate national reporters – would overwhelm Brady.

The league may be correct and on the verge of a show-of-force victory. It may be wrong and headed for a comeuppance.

It's all up to Judge Berman now. Who knows what he thinks and who knows what he'll rule. On Monday he seemed eager to make it known though as he sent the two men in fancy blue suits off into the Manhattan morning, Goodell via a black Escalade, Brady in a Chevy Suburban. Each is left awaiting his word.

The QB v. the Commissioner, it's all or everything now.

Mr. Laz · 09-03-2015, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mav

The irony here is that deflating footballs intentionally gets you nothing, while Ray Farmer gets four games for texting.

Nobody gives a shit about Farmer, while everyone wants to suck Brady's dick

**Mav** · 09-03-2015, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

Nobody gives a shit about Farmer, while everyone wants to suck Brady's dick

True Story.

**ChiefGator** · 09-03-2015, 08:30 AM

Good.. hopefully this is seen as an indictment of Goodell's handling of this case more than anything else. I have no idea why they handled this case the way they did, but it was botched (most likely intentionally) from the beginning.

Was going to post this article earlier:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-...t-get-punished

Feely was in a very similar situation and was not investigated at all.

I'm still not going to give over my personal phone to my employer anytime they want to review my calls. Funk that.

Pasta Little Brioni · 09-03-2015, 08:31 AM

American legal system....how much can you pay to make it go away

**Bob Dole** · 09-03-2015, 08:31 AM

And in a sealed ruling, the Chiefs will lose to the Colts in the playoffs.

jonzie04 · 09-03-2015, 08:31 AM

I wonder if its too late for Sean Smith to go to court. I'm sure theres some kind of funny statue or clause, or a misspelled word in there somewhere that some big wig lawyer can twist around to get him reduced as well. Or maybe something in the bylaws.... I actually have no idea what a statue, clause or a bylaw is, but i've been watching Suits and i imagine there might be some in there somewhere.

Red Dawg · 09-03-2015, 08:33 AM

Hide shit and don't cooperate and you get nothing?

If I was a suspended player I would be running to this douchebag to get me out of it as well. I would also sue the NFL for my lost pay.

What a double standard Berman has just handed down and the exact opposite of what the Supreme Court voted on. Moron.

Marcellus · 09-03-2015, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuckdaddy

Effing bullshit. Berman is a complete jackass basicly telling the league that everyone has to follow the CBA but not Brady. He is special and can do whatever he wants.

Cheating piece of shit and I hope Rex Ryan takes his legs out.

The penalty for equipment violations is clearly laid out in the CBA and was enforced per the CBA during last season.

$25,000 per violation.

If you think the CBA needs enforced the the suspension is bullshit. If you believe otherwise you are an idiot with an agenda and nothing more.

**Bwana** · 09-03-2015, 08:35 AM

Brady beats NFL: Federal judge tosses 4-game suspension in 'Deflategate'

A federal judge deflated "Deflategate" Thursday, erasing New England quarterback Tom Brady's four-game suspension for a controversy that the NFL claimed threatened football's integrity.

U.S. District Judge Richard M. Berman said NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell went too far in affirming punishment of the Super Bowl winning quarterback. Brady has insisted he played no role in a conspiracy to deflate footballs below the allowable limit at last season's AFC championship game.
The written decision frees Brady to prepare for the Sept. 10 season opener against the Pittsburgh Steelers.

The ruling was a surprise to some legal experts who believed Berman was merely pressuring the league to settle when he criticized its handling of the investigation and discipline over the last eight months.

The league brought the scandal to Berman's Manhattan courtroom immediately once Goodell upheld Brady's four-game suspension, blasting the quarterback for arranging the destruction of his cellphone and its nearly 10,000 messages just before he was interviewed for the NFL probe. The union countersued, said Brady did nothing wrong and asked the judge to nullify the suspension.

While the league investigation found it was "more probable than not" that two Patriots ball handling employees deliberately released air from Patriots game balls at January's 45-7 New England victory over the Indianapolis Colts, it cited no direct evidence that Brady knew about or authorized it.

Goodell, though, went beyond the initial investigation report, finding in late July as a result of testimony from Brady and others that the quarterback conspired with the ball handlers and tried to obstruct the league's probe, including by destroying his cellphone.

The commissioner said he concluded Brady "knew about, approved of, consented to, and provided inducements and rewards" to ensure balls were deflated.

Berman attacked the league while questioning one of its lawyers at two hearings, citing a lack of proof against Brady and asking how Goodell settled on a four-game suspension instead of other discipline.

He warned the league that he had the authority to overturn its punishment of Brady if he found the NFL acted unfairly by refusing to deliver NFL Executive Vice President Jeff Pash as a witness even though he worked on the NFL investigation.

Berman's ruling does not necessarily end the dispute. The league can appeal.

Berman had repeatedly urged both sides to settle and tone down their rhetoric. At a hearing Monday attended by Brady and Goodell, the judge announced that both sides had "tried quite hard" to reach a deal in morning talks. But the case was left for him to decide.

As they negotiated, the sides attacked each other in court papers.
In one August court filing, the union said the four-game suspension displayed "a clearly biased agenda -- not an effort at fairness and consistency," and it criticized Goodell's ruling upholding the suspension as a "smear campaign," a "propaganda piece written for public consumption."

In its papers, the NFL said there was "ample support" in evidence for the commissioner to conclude Brady was involved in efforts by the Patriots equipment personnel to deflate footballs.

BigCatDaddy · 09-03-2015, 08:36 AM

. Love it

Amnorix · 09-03-2015, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball

**** you

I thought all my arguments about how the NFL did a shoddy job were just because I was a homer and had Brady's dick in my throat. Looks like a federal freaking judge agreed that their process was terrible.

40 page decision, apparently. Haven't seen it yet, but he obviously was tryign to make it thorough and bullet-proof it from appeal.

**BossChief** · 09-03-2015, 08:37 AM

But Sean Smith is still suspended?

Why did he not appeal again?

Marcellus · 09-03-2015, 08:37 AM

It's hilarious you guys are acting like this is the only time Goodell has gotten his ass handed to him over punishment and it's just the Patriots.

The ignorance around here is just barreling at times.

Amnorix · 09-03-2015, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

Not the same as innocent at all.

No, it isn't. There will never be a hearing or other way to determine true guilt or innocence. And everyone has made up their minds on that anyway.

Quote:

It just mean another judge siding with the players union no matter what.

look through this thread, knew it was coming

worthless sack of shit judges don't give a **** about rules or legal documents, they just want to be liked by people

That's kind of a joke, actually, but whatever.

You think Berman will be MORE liked in NEW YORK CITY because he ruled in favor of BRADY?!? WTF?

**ChiefGator** · 09-03-2015, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

But Sean Smith is still suspended?

Why did he not appeal again?

Honestly, I think he could have appealed to the league and gotten it reduced to two games. :: shrug ::

08-31-2015, 01:45 PM
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	Brady v. NFL: No Settlement; Judge Berman to Decide Can't find the old thread. Brady and Goodell were back in NYC today for settlement talks. No progress. Judge Berman said he would likely decide "in the next day or two" and definitely before September 4th. Interesting how the narrative among the national writers has evolved. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-g...180816187.html NEW YORK – They arrived surrounded by lawyers, each wearing a blue suit and displeased expression. Here was Roger Goodell and here was Tom Brady back in federal court in a fight over power, ego and legacy, as much as whether the footballs were deflated in January's AFC championship game. New York Giants owner John Mara came in an attempt to soften the face of the league's side a bit. Jay Feely, a long-time NFL kicker and friend of Brady's from back at the University of Michigan, arrived to stand by his side. Once again, nothing worked. A private meeting in front of Judge Richard M. Berman yielded nothing. No one budged. No one backed down. No settlement was reached. And now both sides roll the dice and sit and wait for a ruling. "Tomorrow or the day after," Berman said of when he would likely announce whether to vacate Brady's four-game suspension. He assured it would come before Sept. 4, when both sides requested an answer so the New England Patriots can begin preparing for the season opener with or without their star quarterback. So that's that, all or nothing, all or everything, all eyes on the court docket here. For Brady it's either a quarter of the season lost or a measure of redemption gained. For Goodell it's either a reaffirmation of the totality of his authority or another humiliating public defeat. There may be appeals and requests for stays and thus months still to go, what will be won, what may not be done. None of that minimized the tension and drama inside Berman's 17th-floor courtroom here on Monday, when a case that started as a curiosity on that playoff night boiled toward a milestone, if not a conclusion. Berman clearly knows how he is going to rule and likely has much of the decision already written. He's read and heard it all over the past month. There were no new arguments on Monday. The chief attorneys, Daniel Nash of the NFL and Jeffrey Kessler of the NFL Players Association, both merely stood and praised the efforts of all sides even though, as sometimes happens, they just couldn't reach a settlement. "This is a time Mr. Nash and I are going to agree," Kessler joked. The inability to find common ground is not a surprise. Tom Brady was simply never going to admit he had any role in the tampering of those footballs, or even that the footballs were ever tampered with in the first place. First off, after he said as much under oath and then introduced the transcript into federal court, doing so would risk a perjury charge. More importantly though, it would be a complete reversal, making him a liar and a cheat, crushing his image among not just fans but, most importantly according to those that know him best, his own children. He also very well may be innocent. The NFL never produced much of a case against him, let alone that the footballs were even unnaturally deflated. So the only way a settlement could go down was for Goodell to drop any demands for an admission of guilt. He'd have to settle for Brady merely acknowledging a failure to fully cooperate with the investigation. That, however, would be a serious concession from a commissioner who's built his career on cracking heads among misbehaving players. So there was the irresistible force clashing with the unmovable object, each willing to lose in court as long as he could still save face. It has been, if nothing else, a remarkable showdown of oversized personalities. In court Monday, the two men, rich and famous and atop their chosen professions, refused to even look at each other. When the session was adjourned, both were forced to awkwardly wait for the galley to clear out of media and observers, leaving them within a few feet of each other a couple table rows apart. Brady stood first and wandered over to one wood-paneled wall of the ornate courtroom. He stuffed his hands in his pocket, looking as intense as any tight fourth-quarter drive. Feely stood by his side and the two eventually hugged. Goodell, seated in front, stood slowly and also put his hands in his pocket, looking down and then turning in the opposite direction of Brady, trying to wear a face of nonchalance. Eight months into this scandal, after swings of allegations and misrepresentations, of false media leaks and broadside-legal attacks, the distrust and disgust were clear: Two men known for their ability to smoothly glide through life, with fashion and fabulous hair, looked strangely uncomfortable. No one ever wants to sit in this position, leaving it to another man, federal judge or not, to declare whether he or she is a cheat or a fraud or a bully or a bum. Here these two are though, going down that awkward path together. Their lives are seemingly too charmed for this, yet they were like a couple of rivals on opposite sides of the schoolyard, unwilling to even acknowledge the other's presence in front of onlookers. The stakes seem higher for Goodell, if only because his legal argument here is based on the 1981 Supreme Court decision MLBPA v. Garvey, which essentially prohibits judges from interfering with the decision of arbitrators even if they are horrendously flawed or based on inaccurate facts. Arguing you have the right to be a dictator isn't ideal in public relations terms. As such, Goodell and the NFL could certainly prevail in front of Berman but do so via a ruling full of the same kind of harsh verbiage that the judge used during two prior public sessions. It's clear that no matter which way Berman goes, he looked upon the NFL's judicial system in general, and the league's conduct in this case specifically, as lacking any semblance of fairness or competency. He could unload in the ruling and leave Goodell laid out, even if he's technically victorious. That's the risk Goodell was willing to take. And one Brady is willing to go with, essentially entering the verdict stage with a two-pronged chance at redemption – either total or at least in the court of public opinion. A loss and a four-game suspension would hurt, but he could at least point to an impartial federal judge down in New York agreeing that Goodell is out of line. It's certainly reasonable that the NFL initially erred when it failed to comprehend Ideal Gas Law and thus initially thought any Patriots football that measured below 12.5 pounds per square inch of inflation was a sign of nefarious conduct. It immediately went after a speeding ticket like a homicide case. But by the time the league should've have dialed it back, it had already leaked prejudicial stories and begun building a case against Brady and two Patriots locker room attendants. The NFL never was able to find a smoking gun or much more than suspicions, but that didn't matter. The NFL not only never backed down, it just kept doubling down, believing the full force of the league's power – both in the CBA and in its ability to manipulate national reporters – would overwhelm Brady. The league may be correct and on the verge of a show-of-force victory. It may be wrong and headed for a comeuppance. It's all up to Judge Berman now. Who knows what he thinks and who knows what he'll rule. On Monday he seemed eager to make it known though as he sent the two men in fancy blue suits off into the Manhattan morning, Goodell via a black Escalade, Brady in a Chevy Suburban. Each is left awaiting his word. The QB v. the Commissioner, it's all or everything now.
Posts: 43,125

09-03-2015, 08:30 AM	#168
ChiefGator Can these boys not play? Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Northcentral Florida Casino cash: $7192956	Good.. hopefully this is seen as an indictment of Goodell's handling of this case more than anything else. I have no idea why they handled this case the way they did, but it was botched (most likely intentionally) from the beginning. Was going to post this article earlier: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-...t-get-punished Feely was in a very similar situation and was not investigated at all. I'm still not going to give over my personal phone to my employer anytime they want to review my calls. Funk that. __________________ - Mark
Posts: 4,619

09-03-2015, 08:31 AM	#169
Pasta Little Brioni Consuming CP souls Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: U.S.A. Casino cash: $2508880	American legal system....how much can you pay to make it go away __________________ **Official TFWdemB Trivia Commisioner**
Posts: 70,745

09-03-2015, 08:31 AM	#170
Bob Dole King Shit of **** Mountain Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Texarkana, Texas Casino cash: $1037937	And in a sealed ruling, the Chiefs will lose to the Colts in the playoffs.
Posts: 49,791

09-03-2015, 08:31 AM	#171
jonzie04 MVP Join Date: Feb 2014 Casino cash: $5716817	I wonder if its too late for Sean Smith to go to court. I'm sure theres some kind of funny statue or clause, or a misspelled word in there somewhere that some big wig lawyer can twist around to get him reduced as well. Or maybe something in the bylaws.... I actually have no idea what a statue, clause or a bylaw is, but i've been watching Suits and i imagine there might be some in there somewhere. __________________ 2015 Adopt A chief : Marcus Peters
Posts: 6,779

09-03-2015, 08:33 AM	#172
Red Dawg Going home eventually Join Date: Dec 2002 Casino cash: $3632858	Hide shit and don't cooperate and you get nothing? If I was a suspended player I would be running to this douchebag to get me out of it as well. I would also sue the NFL for my lost pay. What a double standard Berman has just handed down and the exact opposite of what the Supreme Court voted on. Moron. __________________ If you're not first you're last!
Posts: 31,169

09-03-2015, 08:35 AM	#174
Bwana It's Five O'Clock Somewhere Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Billings, Montana Casino cash: $2138113647	Brady beats NFL: Federal judge tosses 4-game suspension in 'Deflategate' A federal judge deflated "Deflategate" Thursday, erasing New England quarterback Tom Brady's four-game suspension for a controversy that the NFL claimed threatened football's integrity. U.S. District Judge Richard M. Berman said NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell went too far in affirming punishment of the Super Bowl winning quarterback. Brady has insisted he played no role in a conspiracy to deflate footballs below the allowable limit at last season's AFC championship game. The written decision frees Brady to prepare for the Sept. 10 season opener against the Pittsburgh Steelers. The ruling was a surprise to some legal experts who believed Berman was merely pressuring the league to settle when he criticized its handling of the investigation and discipline over the last eight months. The league brought the scandal to Berman's Manhattan courtroom immediately once Goodell upheld Brady's four-game suspension, blasting the quarterback for arranging the destruction of his cellphone and its nearly 10,000 messages just before he was interviewed for the NFL probe. The union countersued, said Brady did nothing wrong and asked the judge to nullify the suspension. While the league investigation found it was "more probable than not" that two Patriots ball handling employees deliberately released air from Patriots game balls at January's 45-7 New England victory over the Indianapolis Colts, it cited no direct evidence that Brady knew about or authorized it. Goodell, though, went beyond the initial investigation report, finding in late July as a result of testimony from Brady and others that the quarterback conspired with the ball handlers and tried to obstruct the league's probe, including by destroying his cellphone. The commissioner said he concluded Brady "knew about, approved of, consented to, and provided inducements and rewards" to ensure balls were deflated. Berman attacked the league while questioning one of its lawyers at two hearings, citing a lack of proof against Brady and asking how Goodell settled on a four-game suspension instead of other discipline. He warned the league that he had the authority to overturn its punishment of Brady if he found the NFL acted unfairly by refusing to deliver NFL Executive Vice President Jeff Pash as a witness even though he worked on the NFL investigation. Berman's ruling does not necessarily end the dispute. The league can appeal. Berman had repeatedly urged both sides to settle and tone down their rhetoric. At a hearing Monday attended by Brady and Goodell, the judge announced that both sides had "tried quite hard" to reach a deal in morning talks. But the case was left for him to decide. As they negotiated, the sides attacked each other in court papers. In one August court filing, the union said the four-game suspension displayed "a clearly biased agenda -- not an effort at fairness and consistency," and it criticized Goodell's ruling upholding the suspension as a "smear campaign," a "propaganda piece written for public consumption." In its papers, the NFL said there was "ample support" in evidence for the commissioner to conclude Brady was involved in efforts by the Patriots equipment personnel to deflate footballs. __________________ Adventure is dangerous....but monotony can kill you.
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09-03-2015, 08:36 AM	#175
BigCatDaddy The Beast Inside Your Head Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $569122	. Love it
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09-03-2015, 08:37 AM	#177
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $464088	But Sean Smith is still suspended? Why did he not appeal again? __________________ Dreams do come true... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=1407
Posts: 47,400

09-03-2015, 08:37 AM	#178
Marcellus Diablo Negro Join Date: Sep 2003 Casino cash: $1682662	It's hilarious you guys are acting like this is the only time Goodell has gotten his ass handed to him over punishment and it's just the Patriots. The ignorance around here is just barreling at times.
Posts: 71,608