As a QB prospect coming out of college, Geno Smith is greater than...?

[RealSNR]

Poll forthcoming.

Remember, we're talking about these players as prospects. I don't care what has happened to Jay Cutler or Brady Quinn or Aaron Rodgers. If you think those QBs had more to work with as potential pros, then check them off.

[aturnis]

Originally Posted by ayleswbj

No no no , you just said it best. Colleges implement ELEMENTS, not true spread. which Geno played in along with many others. Teams absolutely shy away from drafting these guys high. That's why guys like Keenum, Harrell and so on don't get drafted or go in the 6th.


Take a look at this year's premier NFL quarterbacks: Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Matthew Stafford and Eli Manning. They all share two things in common. Each has a significant history of working under center -- and for each, his arm separates him, not his legs.

The NFL is a quarterback-driven league, with smart signal-callers who win by throwing the ball accurately and on time. But at the college and high school levels, there's more of a willingness to accept a less-than-ideal passer who is an extraordinary athlete.

Prior to the explosion of the spread offense in the past 10-15 years, the core foundation of the quarterback position was learning to play under center. You dropped back from under center, read coverages from under center, made pre-snap assessments from under center. Everything you learned was about footwork, timing and reading defenses on the move.

Now, almost all you see in high school and college is the spread formation, so quarterbacks lack repetitions under center, which has led to a lack of fundamentals at the position. Every year I go out to camps and combines and see kids with multiple BCS offers who struggle to take a five-step drop, hit their fifth step and get the ball out. It can be staggering how many can't do it.

The reason for this is that from a coach's perspective, your mindset is to force defenses to have to defend your quarterback's ability to run. You implement some option principles into that mentality and it really puts a lot of strain on the defense. In high school, coaches take their best player and put him in the Wildcat formation, and if he has any promise as a passer he is going to get a long look from college coaches.

Pro-style quarterbacks who thrive in college -- like Matt Barkley and Andrew Luck -- are few and far between. There are 120 FBS teams, and it's hard to name more than five that have a base offense that includes two running backs and a tight end (the classic pro-style formation). That formation has a heavy emphasis on a power running game, and the quarterback's purpose is to win with his arm and his mind, which is essentially how the game is played at the NFL level. In these types of schemes, you will find the quarterback asked to throw less frequently but to make more challenging throws when he does drop back. Rather than throwing bubble screens or quick routes, the pro-style QB attacks the short, intermediate and deep areas of the field.

One of the reasons we've seen such a huge spike in completion percentages in college football is because of the short, controlled passing game that features numerous throws near the line of scrimmage. Think Oregon. So a pro-style QB like Andrew Luck completing 70 percent of his passes is much more impressive to NFL evaluators than a spread QB with a similar completion percentage.

However, you are starting to see guys like Cam Newton and Tim Tebow, who came from the spread in college, begin to enjoy success in the NFL. Their pro teams were willing to break the mold of conventional quarterback play to allow their more athletic quarterbacks to make plays with their legs. Newton and Tebow are the freakiest of freak athletes, however, so it's unlikely other teams will be able to duplicate their success in a league where linebackers and defensive ends are running 4.5-second 40s.

The key for NFL coaches and scouts when evaluating spread quarterbacks is to figure out how intricate their spread offense was. How complex were the protections and blitz-pickup principles? What were they asked to do at the line of scrimmage? Could they hit their intermediate and deep passes when those plays were called? That is why Baylor QB Robert Griffin III has become such a hot commodity. While he plays in a variation of the spread, he can also make all the intermediate throws and is the best deep-ball thrower in college football.

Behind closed doors, there are probably a lot of offensive coaches in the NFL who would love to have the dynamic threat of a player like Cam Newton at quarterback. There are some creative things you can do with players like that. But in a league where elite quarterback play is at a premium, most coaches are going to be fearful of jeopardizing the health of the most important player on their roster. The risk of injury is high for quarterbacks to begin with, never mind when you ask him to take even more direct shots as a runner.

The bottom line is this: While NFL quarterbacks are becoming more and more athletic, we are a long way from seeing a college-style spread offense dominate at the pro level.

Not my words, just good insight to the failures of many spread QBs

They don't shy away from them b/c they are spread dumbass. They stay away b/c they're short, they have terrible mechanics, or b/c they have no arm, any number of reasons, and they're pretty well documented. Tebow was scrutinized heavily for having terrible mechanics, it's why he nearly fell out of the first round. Get a clue.

[ayleswbj]

Originally Posted by aturnis

They don't shy away from them b/c they are spread dumbass. They stay away b/c they're short, they have terrible mechanics, or b/c they have no arm, any number of reasons, and they're pretty well documented. Tebow was scrutinized heavily for having terrible mechanics, it's why he nearly fell out of the first round. Get a clue.

Please, Here you go. Scouting report on Geno Smith from Pro football weekly. You can find tons of articles talking about his poor mechanics and everything else. HE ll be drafted high because this class is terrible, but he is the best "terrible one of them all" so take him first.

Nawrocki has now issued scouting reports for Geno Smith and Matt Barkley, regarded as the top two quarterback prospects in this year’s draft. And at a time when many believe Smith will be taken before Barkley, Nawrocki calls Barkley a first-round pick and Smith merely a “top-50 pick.”

Apart from Nawrocki’s critique of Smith’s mechanics, Nawrocki adds this assessment of Smith: “Not a student of the game. Nonchalant field presence — does not command respect from teammates and cannot inspire. Mild practice demeanor — no urgency. Not committed or focused — marginal work ethic. Interviewed poorly at the Combine and did not show an understanding of concepts on the white board. Opted not to compete at the Senior Bowl and has approached offseason training as if he has already arrived and it shows in his body with minimal muscle definition or strength. Has small hands and glaring ball security issues (32 career fumbles). Really struggled handling the snow in Pinstripe Bowl (took two safeties) and will be troubled by the elements. Needed to be coddled in college — cannot handle hard coaching.”

Nawrocki then makes a strong prediction about Smith’s future. “Smith is a gimmick, overhyped product of the system lacking the football savvy, work habits and focus to cement a starting job and could drain energy from a QB room,” Nawrocki writes. “Will be overdrafted and struggle to produce against NFL defensive complexities.”

Smith will indeed be drafted high, due to the possibility that his positives eventually will outweigh his negatives, allowing him to become the one thing every team needs: A franchise quarterback. If enough teams agree with Nawrocki, however, Smith may not be drafted as high as some would believe.

[ayleswbj]

Originally Posted by aturnis

The fact that you think Geno played in a pure spread tells me you know not of what you speak. Just spouting off what you read in an idiots article? Geno played in an Air Raid offense and made up to 3 reads per play. Did you watch he and Gruden break down the film? Geno made his reads, made smart decisions, and is very accurate. It's not a push. Tebow never looked like a pro QB at any point in his college career. He was and ungodly lucky guy.

Get Real with yourself man, The air-raid offense is a spread. Predicated on the screen game moving around the H and Y recievers. Invented by Mike Leach at Texas Tech and brought to WV by Dana Holgerson who puts his own spin on it. As a matter of fact its even more spread disguised by the use of traditional formations such as 1 RB to 3 RB. Dress it up how you want to try and convince people Geno played in a PRO-STYLE. He did not. IF your a mid west guy then theres a good chance you have watch a lot of Big 12 football and you would already know this. Or maybe you just a geno fan. Grudens show is made for TV. Find one show where he actually says anything bad about a guy. He gives little funny back handed criticism. Post one show where he says to the guy, No way in hell would i take you in the first round or the draft or draft you at all. Just watch him an Tebow together. Its all the same. Terrible use of an example, Like telling an actor watch this soap opera and then go win an Oscar.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

he pulls out the Nawrocki horseshit as "the gospel". Moran.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by ayleswbj

Get Real with yourself man, The air-raid offense is a spread. Predicated on the screen game moving around the H and Y recievers. Invented by Mike Leach at Texas Tech and brought to WV by Dana Holgerson who puts his own spin on it. As a matter of fact its even more spread disguised by the use of traditional formations such as 1 RB to 3 RB. Dress it up how you want to try and convince people Geno played in a PRO-STYLE. He did not. IF your a mid west guy then theres a good chance you have watch a lot of Big 12 football and you would already know this. Or maybe you just a geno fan. Grudens show is made for TV. Find one show where he actually says anything bad about a guy. He gives little funny back handed criticism. Post one show where he says to the guy, No way in hell would i take you in the first round or the draft or draft you at all. Just watch him an Tebow together. Its all the same. Terrible use of an example, Like telling an actor watch this soap opera and then go win an Oscar.

Curious, but did you read Gruden's comments on ESPN Insider regarding Geno?

As well, Nawrocki's comments have been debunked by multiple objective sources that spent a considerable amount of time around Geno. The guy was making shit up for whatever reason and his little "scouting report" borders on slanderous.

In addition, perhaps you could use some paragraphing in your posts. They are ****ing painful to read. Let me quote you:

"Sofndofiansaosigydagio8y afoindogihewoitheawoithaos alshdfodsighoidghads adsghoihen. Boaidfhairo3e4uy3 asdkrjhfweoi o93eutrq0g98habn foewnvgoiuawetr. Roafnioeutgahnab afkdighaoi3rtu9 afdaisgh aoighd aoigdjhao0tegahra aldgjoetru489hgreoiajhfdnafbn adikgaoitgoaeg. Gaoighjoreihsiobnoiga aoitgeiotgw aoigre aoig aigoewtruy890gibrnai ghjoiahteriythga. Ragihdsoigajhoaigjaoi agbniatruo3w4eu aoigjab;rdgi aoigd aoitreu89rqbhoige ghjoisrhjsoi soihrd oer oasihjaoritoirejgrp. Ziortoi oreity roi oabjghroiea aoret098hsfhjfdkljghjre oaireoijahroijoasijgklfd. Wiogerjoigj eori oseigrjoijahsp roe osigrjhreawph8 groejawoigjahoigjho oarei oaser fbovd ofg oghhaghlahgoiregap oaegrjhoigre oegreh hreiothj htor stre iorep. Yreiotu psg sogr. Tfdsikgj hotrw ht itroh owsihp sohjps."

[RealSNR]

According to patteeu we shouldn't call out this n00b dipshit's crap that he's trying to pedal. We should be nice to him and say worthless garbage like, "That's okay if you think Geno isn't a good player. We're just glad to have you on board, buddy!"

Tell us patteeu. How should people who disagree with ayleswbj respond to his points? Teach us so that we may not become brownshirts in your eyes, and can bring the peace to Chiefs Planet that you so desperately want to have!

[The Bad Guy]

QB rating of 100 in college is nothing special, at all. The rating of 100 in college is the equivalent of 69 in the NFL.

[B14ckmon]

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

QB rating of 100 in college is nothing special, at all. The rating of 100 in college is the equivalent of 69 in the NFL.

...I think people need to learn the difference between QBR and Passer Rating.

[The Bad Guy]

Originally Posted by B14ckmon

...I think people need to learn the difference between QBR and Passer Rating.

I know the difference between QBR and Passer rating.

Sacco stated that Geno had a passer rating over 100 for each of his terrible games. That's not some high benchmark because the passer rating formula is completely different for the NFL compared to NCAA.

[B14ckmon]

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

I know the difference between QBR and Passer rating.

Sacco stated that Geno had a passer rating over 100 for each of his terrible games. That's not some high benchmark because the passer rating formula is completely different for the NFL compared to NCAA.

Yea, I wasn't referring to you.

[ayleswbj]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Curious, but did you read Gruden's comments on ESPN Insider regarding Geno?

As well, Nawrocki's comments have been debunked by multiple objective sources that spent a considerable amount of time around Geno. The guy was making shit up for whatever reason and his little "scouting report" borders on slanderous.

In addition, perhaps you could use some paragraphing in your posts. They are ****ing painful to read. Let me quote you:

By who? Multiple who? Guess you are a Geno fan. So now the writer for pro football weekly is making things up? You are comical, actually ur cute. So funny. What about grudens comments? same ol shit. who is debunking these articles? you have not idea

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by ayleswbj

By who? Multiple who? Guess you are a Geno fan. So now the writer for pro football weekly is making things up? You are comical, actually ur cute. So funny. What about grudens comments? same ol shit. who is debunking these articles? you have not idea

Go fist yourself.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Pasta Little Brioni]

I still find it hilarious people use the term Geno Mafia, heh

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

I'm beginning to believe that they are...

I am far more believing that they might now, than 3 months ago.

They have made a lot of comments and actions that Indicate they are seriously interested in drafting him.

Especially John Dorseys bit on drafting Rodgers and sitting him for 3 years and "they will do it again if they have to"

To me, that meant they would take him at 1 if they can't trade down.

[Hootie]

paying Geno 6M and Alex 8M is still 8M less than the Ravens pay Joe ****ing Flacco