Football Brady v. NFL: No Settlement; Judge Berman to Decide

Amnorix · 08-31-2015, 01:45 PM

Can't find the old thread. Brady and Goodell were back in NYC today for settlement talks. No progress.

Judge Berman said he would likely decide "in the next day or two" and definitely before September 4th.

Interesting how the narrative among the national writers has evolved.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-g...180816187.html

NEW YORK – They arrived surrounded by lawyers, each wearing a blue suit and displeased expression. Here was Roger Goodell and here was Tom Brady back in federal court in a fight over power, ego and legacy, as much as whether the footballs were deflated in January's AFC championship game.

New York Giants owner John Mara came in an attempt to soften the face of the league's side a bit. Jay Feely, a long-time NFL kicker and friend of Brady's from back at the University of Michigan, arrived to stand by his side.

Once again, nothing worked. A private meeting in front of Judge Richard M. Berman yielded nothing. No one budged. No one backed down. No settlement was reached.
And now both sides roll the dice and sit and wait for a ruling.

"Tomorrow or the day after," Berman said of when he would likely announce whether to vacate Brady's four-game suspension. He assured it would come before Sept. 4, when both sides requested an answer so the New England Patriots can begin preparing for the season opener with or without their star quarterback.

So that's that, all or nothing, all or everything, all eyes on the court docket here.

For Brady it's either a quarter of the season lost or a measure of redemption gained. For Goodell it's either a reaffirmation of the totality of his authority or another humiliating public defeat.

There may be appeals and requests for stays and thus months still to go, what will be won, what may not be done. None of that minimized the tension and drama inside Berman's 17th-floor courtroom here on Monday, when a case that started as a curiosity on that playoff night boiled toward a milestone, if not a conclusion.

Berman clearly knows how he is going to rule and likely has much of the decision already written. He's read and heard it all over the past month. There were no new arguments on Monday. The chief attorneys, Daniel Nash of the NFL and Jeffrey Kessler of the NFL Players Association, both merely stood and praised the efforts of all sides even though, as sometimes happens, they just couldn't reach a settlement.

"This is a time Mr. Nash and I are going to agree," Kessler joked.

The inability to find common ground is not a surprise. Tom Brady was simply never going to admit he had any role in the tampering of those footballs, or even that the footballs were ever tampered with in the first place.

First off, after he said as much under oath and then introduced the transcript into federal court, doing so would risk a perjury charge. More importantly though, it would be a complete reversal, making him a liar and a cheat, crushing his image among not just fans but, most importantly according to those that know him best, his own children.

He also very well may be innocent. The NFL never produced much of a case against him, let alone that the footballs were even unnaturally deflated.

So the only way a settlement could go down was for Goodell to drop any demands for an admission of guilt. He'd have to settle for Brady merely acknowledging a failure to fully cooperate with the investigation. That, however, would be a serious concession from a commissioner who's built his career on cracking heads among misbehaving players.

So there was the irresistible force clashing with the unmovable object, each willing to lose in court as long as he could still save face.
It has been, if nothing else, a remarkable showdown of oversized personalities.

In court Monday, the two men, rich and famous and atop their chosen professions, refused to even look at each other.

When the session was adjourned, both were forced to awkwardly wait for the galley to clear out of media and observers, leaving them within a few feet of each other a couple table rows apart.

Brady stood first and wandered over to one wood-paneled wall of the ornate courtroom. He stuffed his hands in his pocket, looking as intense as any tight fourth-quarter drive. Feely stood by his side and the two eventually hugged.

Goodell, seated in front, stood slowly and also put his hands in his pocket, looking down and then turning in the opposite direction of Brady, trying to wear a face of nonchalance.

Eight months into this scandal, after swings of allegations and misrepresentations, of false media leaks and broadside-legal attacks, the distrust and disgust were clear: Two men known for their ability to smoothly glide through life, with fashion and fabulous hair, looked strangely uncomfortable.

No one ever wants to sit in this position, leaving it to another man, federal judge or not, to declare whether he or she is a cheat or a fraud or a bully or a bum.

Here these two are though, going down that awkward path together. Their lives are seemingly too charmed for this, yet they were like a couple of rivals on opposite sides of the schoolyard, unwilling to even acknowledge the other's presence in front of onlookers.

The stakes seem higher for Goodell, if only because his legal argument here is based on the 1981 Supreme Court decision MLBPA v. Garvey, which essentially prohibits judges from interfering with the decision of arbitrators even if they are horrendously flawed or based on inaccurate facts. Arguing you have the right to be a dictator isn't ideal in public relations terms.

As such, Goodell and the NFL could certainly prevail in front of Berman but do so via a ruling full of the same kind of harsh verbiage that the judge used during two prior public sessions.

It's clear that no matter which way Berman goes, he looked upon the NFL's judicial system in general, and the league's conduct in this case specifically, as lacking any semblance of fairness or competency. He could unload in the ruling and leave Goodell laid out, even if he's technically victorious.

That's the risk Goodell was willing to take. And one Brady is willing to go with, essentially entering the verdict stage with a two-pronged chance at redemption – either total or at least in the court of public opinion. A loss and a four-game suspension would hurt, but he could at least point to an impartial federal judge down in New York agreeing that Goodell is out of line.

It's certainly reasonable that the NFL initially erred when it failed to comprehend Ideal Gas Law and thus initially thought any Patriots football that measured below 12.5 pounds per square inch of inflation was a sign of nefarious conduct. It immediately went after a speeding ticket like a homicide case.

But by the time the league should've have dialed it back, it had already leaked prejudicial stories and begun building a case against Brady and two Patriots locker room attendants. The NFL never was able to find a smoking gun or much more than suspicions, but that didn't matter.

The NFL not only never backed down, it just kept doubling down, believing the full force of the league's power – both in the CBA and in its ability to manipulate national reporters – would overwhelm Brady.

The league may be correct and on the verge of a show-of-force victory. It may be wrong and headed for a comeuppance.

It's all up to Judge Berman now. Who knows what he thinks and who knows what he'll rule. On Monday he seemed eager to make it known though as he sent the two men in fancy blue suits off into the Manhattan morning, Goodell via a black Escalade, Brady in a Chevy Suburban. Each is left awaiting his word.

The QB v. the Commissioner, it's all or everything now.

**FRCDFED** · 08-31-2015, 01:52 PM

I can't imagine any scenario where the judge sides with the NFL considering the lack of evidence and the lack of precedent in such a matter. Previous equipment violations (which Brady's involvement hasn't even been proven) only resulted in a $25k fine.

Chiefnj2 · 08-31-2015, 01:54 PM

If he decides with the Pats he's basically telling every team to go ahead and destroy evidence in the future and fail to cooperate. Ray Farmer should have flushed his phone.

thabear04 · 08-31-2015, 01:56 PM

Tom Brady Sketch Artist Gets Second Chance In Court

**FRCDFED** · 08-31-2015, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

If he decides with the Pats he's basically telling every team to go ahead and destroy evidence in the future and fail to cooperate. Ray Farmer should have flushed his phone.

The blame for any shortcomings on the part of the internal investigators cannot be placed on Brady's shoulders. If what is being released, that Brady was told he didn't need to turn over the phone is true, then the drama about destroying the phone can just stop.

Goodell went too far on this one. To give up one-third of your salary due to suspension for a slightly underinflated ball, when the opponent that reported you also has underinflated balls in the same game, is just ridiculous. Doesn't matter if you love or hate Brady it is just dumb.

**BigRichard** · 08-31-2015, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRCDFED

I can't imagine any scenario where the judge sides with the NFL considering the lack of evidence and the lack of precedent in such a matter. Previous equipment violations (which Brady's involvement hasn't even been proven) only resulted in a $25k fine.

How many times does this need to be repeated in these threads... he wasn't punished for the balls he was punished for his lack of cooperation.

**FRCDFED** · 08-31-2015, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRichard

How many times does this need to be repeated in these threads... he wasn't punished for the balls he was punished for his lack of cooperation.

The same number of times it has to be repeated that he claimed he was told the phone wasn't needed. Therefore, he did cooperate with the investigation.

**FRCDFED** · 08-31-2015, 02:06 PM

I believe it was even acknowledged that Brady was told his phone wasn't needed.

MagicHef · 08-31-2015, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRCDFED

I can't imagine any scenario where the judge sides with the NFL considering the lack of evidence and the lack of precedent in such a matter. Previous equipment violations (which Brady's involvement hasn't even been proven) only resulted in a $25k fine.

I can. The NFLPA negotiated the current CBA and agreed to give the commissioner the power he has. He used that power, the NFLPA is now trying to argue against the CBA they agreed to.

IMO, he'll throw it out, maintaining Brady's suspension.

Chiefnj2 · 08-31-2015, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRCDFED

The same number of times it has to be repeated that he claimed he was told the phone wasn't needed. Therefore, he did cooperate with the investigation.

The data from the phone was needed.

Only idiots believe the "deflator" was a weight loss term.

**FRCDFED** · 08-31-2015, 02:09 PM

Since the judge has to rule "all or nothing" I believe it will be nothing. If the penalty imposed by Goodell wasn't so severe then I would think there was a possibility that it would be upheld.

MagicHef · 08-31-2015, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRCDFED

I believe it was even acknowledged that Brady was told his phone wasn't needed.

The judge isn't allowed to rule on whether or not the investigation was legitimate or if Brady's suspension was deserved. He's only allowed to rule on whether or not Goodell acted appropriately in regards to the CBA. Since the NFLPA decided to agree to a CBA that makes Goodell judge, jury and executioner, they don't really have an argument that will hold up.

Amnorix · 08-31-2015, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRCDFED

I can't imagine any scenario where the judge sides with the NFL considering the lack of evidence and the lack of precedent in such a matter. Previous equipment violations (which Brady's involvement hasn't even been proven) only resulted in a $25k fine.

The problem for Berman, Brady and the NFLPA is that the NFLPA gave the Commish the power to be judge, jury and executioner. It's all rather insane, but arbitration provisions and awards are granted EXTREME deference by the courts. Courts really want to empower arbitrators, not disempower them.

**FRCDFED** · 08-31-2015, 02:11 PM

Amnorix should've made it a poll just to see which side everyone is on without all the in-thread bickering.

Amnorix · 08-31-2015, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

If he decides with the Pats he's basically telling every team to go ahead and destroy evidence in the future and fail to cooperate. Ray Farmer should have flushed his phone.

He cooperated pretty massively actually. Made himself available for interviews and turned over tons of emails (which of course later became public). He destroyed his phone only after he told them he would never get his phone, and indeed they had no right (under the CBA or otherwise) to get his phone.

And the phone destruction thing happened AFTER the punishment was handed down, IIRC.

And yet you want to make this all about the phone destruction, which is odd, because that's never what it was about to begin with.

Side note that nobody has ever been suspended for failing to cooperate before, INCLUDING THE KICKER, GOSTKOWSKI, who refused to turn over his phone IN THIS SAME INVESTIGATION!!

08-31-2015, 01:45 PM
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	Brady v. NFL: No Settlement; Judge Berman to Decide Can't find the old thread. Brady and Goodell were back in NYC today for settlement talks. No progress. Judge Berman said he would likely decide "in the next day or two" and definitely before September 4th. Interesting how the narrative among the national writers has evolved. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-g...180816187.html NEW YORK – They arrived surrounded by lawyers, each wearing a blue suit and displeased expression. Here was Roger Goodell and here was Tom Brady back in federal court in a fight over power, ego and legacy, as much as whether the footballs were deflated in January's AFC championship game. New York Giants owner John Mara came in an attempt to soften the face of the league's side a bit. Jay Feely, a long-time NFL kicker and friend of Brady's from back at the University of Michigan, arrived to stand by his side. Once again, nothing worked. A private meeting in front of Judge Richard M. Berman yielded nothing. No one budged. No one backed down. No settlement was reached. And now both sides roll the dice and sit and wait for a ruling. "Tomorrow or the day after," Berman said of when he would likely announce whether to vacate Brady's four-game suspension. He assured it would come before Sept. 4, when both sides requested an answer so the New England Patriots can begin preparing for the season opener with or without their star quarterback. So that's that, all or nothing, all or everything, all eyes on the court docket here. For Brady it's either a quarter of the season lost or a measure of redemption gained. For Goodell it's either a reaffirmation of the totality of his authority or another humiliating public defeat. There may be appeals and requests for stays and thus months still to go, what will be won, what may not be done. None of that minimized the tension and drama inside Berman's 17th-floor courtroom here on Monday, when a case that started as a curiosity on that playoff night boiled toward a milestone, if not a conclusion. Berman clearly knows how he is going to rule and likely has much of the decision already written. He's read and heard it all over the past month. There were no new arguments on Monday. The chief attorneys, Daniel Nash of the NFL and Jeffrey Kessler of the NFL Players Association, both merely stood and praised the efforts of all sides even though, as sometimes happens, they just couldn't reach a settlement. "This is a time Mr. Nash and I are going to agree," Kessler joked. The inability to find common ground is not a surprise. Tom Brady was simply never going to admit he had any role in the tampering of those footballs, or even that the footballs were ever tampered with in the first place. First off, after he said as much under oath and then introduced the transcript into federal court, doing so would risk a perjury charge. More importantly though, it would be a complete reversal, making him a liar and a cheat, crushing his image among not just fans but, most importantly according to those that know him best, his own children. He also very well may be innocent. The NFL never produced much of a case against him, let alone that the footballs were even unnaturally deflated. So the only way a settlement could go down was for Goodell to drop any demands for an admission of guilt. He'd have to settle for Brady merely acknowledging a failure to fully cooperate with the investigation. That, however, would be a serious concession from a commissioner who's built his career on cracking heads among misbehaving players. So there was the irresistible force clashing with the unmovable object, each willing to lose in court as long as he could still save face. It has been, if nothing else, a remarkable showdown of oversized personalities. In court Monday, the two men, rich and famous and atop their chosen professions, refused to even look at each other. When the session was adjourned, both were forced to awkwardly wait for the galley to clear out of media and observers, leaving them within a few feet of each other a couple table rows apart. Brady stood first and wandered over to one wood-paneled wall of the ornate courtroom. He stuffed his hands in his pocket, looking as intense as any tight fourth-quarter drive. Feely stood by his side and the two eventually hugged. Goodell, seated in front, stood slowly and also put his hands in his pocket, looking down and then turning in the opposite direction of Brady, trying to wear a face of nonchalance. Eight months into this scandal, after swings of allegations and misrepresentations, of false media leaks and broadside-legal attacks, the distrust and disgust were clear: Two men known for their ability to smoothly glide through life, with fashion and fabulous hair, looked strangely uncomfortable. No one ever wants to sit in this position, leaving it to another man, federal judge or not, to declare whether he or she is a cheat or a fraud or a bully or a bum. Here these two are though, going down that awkward path together. Their lives are seemingly too charmed for this, yet they were like a couple of rivals on opposite sides of the schoolyard, unwilling to even acknowledge the other's presence in front of onlookers. The stakes seem higher for Goodell, if only because his legal argument here is based on the 1981 Supreme Court decision MLBPA v. Garvey, which essentially prohibits judges from interfering with the decision of arbitrators even if they are horrendously flawed or based on inaccurate facts. Arguing you have the right to be a dictator isn't ideal in public relations terms. As such, Goodell and the NFL could certainly prevail in front of Berman but do so via a ruling full of the same kind of harsh verbiage that the judge used during two prior public sessions. It's clear that no matter which way Berman goes, he looked upon the NFL's judicial system in general, and the league's conduct in this case specifically, as lacking any semblance of fairness or competency. He could unload in the ruling and leave Goodell laid out, even if he's technically victorious. That's the risk Goodell was willing to take. And one Brady is willing to go with, essentially entering the verdict stage with a two-pronged chance at redemption – either total or at least in the court of public opinion. A loss and a four-game suspension would hurt, but he could at least point to an impartial federal judge down in New York agreeing that Goodell is out of line. It's certainly reasonable that the NFL initially erred when it failed to comprehend Ideal Gas Law and thus initially thought any Patriots football that measured below 12.5 pounds per square inch of inflation was a sign of nefarious conduct. It immediately went after a speeding ticket like a homicide case. But by the time the league should've have dialed it back, it had already leaked prejudicial stories and begun building a case against Brady and two Patriots locker room attendants. The NFL never was able to find a smoking gun or much more than suspicions, but that didn't matter. The NFL not only never backed down, it just kept doubling down, believing the full force of the league's power – both in the CBA and in its ability to manipulate national reporters – would overwhelm Brady. The league may be correct and on the verge of a show-of-force victory. It may be wrong and headed for a comeuppance. It's all up to Judge Berman now. Who knows what he thinks and who knows what he'll rule. On Monday he seemed eager to make it known though as he sent the two men in fancy blue suits off into the Manhattan morning, Goodell via a black Escalade, Brady in a Chevy Suburban. Each is left awaiting his word. The QB v. the Commissioner, it's all or everything now.
Posts: 43,125

08-31-2015, 01:52 PM	#2
FRCDFED Line'em up Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: somewhere out there Casino cash: $9326297	I can't imagine any scenario where the judge sides with the NFL considering the lack of evidence and the lack of precedent in such a matter. Previous equipment violations (which Brady's involvement hasn't even been proven) only resulted in a $25k fine.
Posts: 3,185

08-31-2015, 01:54 PM	#3
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $7823688	If he decides with the Pats he's basically telling every team to go ahead and destroy evidence in the future and fail to cooperate. Ray Farmer should have flushed his phone. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,395

08-31-2015, 01:56 PM	#4
thabear04 MTFU Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The Valley Heat Casino cash: $5570450	Tom Brady Sketch Artist Gets Second Chance In Court
Posts: 7,231

08-31-2015, 02:06 PM	#8
FRCDFED Line'em up Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: somewhere out there Casino cash: $9326297	I believe it was even acknowledged that Brady was told his phone wasn't needed.
Posts: 3,185

08-31-2015, 02:09 PM	#11
FRCDFED Line'em up Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: somewhere out there Casino cash: $9326297	Since the judge has to rule "all or nothing" I believe it will be nothing. If the penalty imposed by Goodell wasn't so severe then I would think there was a possibility that it would be upheld.
Posts: 3,185

08-31-2015, 02:11 PM	#14
FRCDFED Line'em up Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: somewhere out there Casino cash: $9326297	Amnorix should've made it a poll just to see which side everyone is on without all the in-thread bickering.
Posts: 3,185